Why not LED?

[Dragfluid]

A building that's up in what was one of my fields finally has the floor poured (pretty) and now they're going gangbusters on the inside work. 136,000 sq ft with what I'm guessing 40' walls. I go and do my "noisy neighbor" inspection every Saturday morning on my way to get breakfast. There are a **** ton of Fluorescent fixtures stacked up, waiting to be put up. See pics.
They all appear to have motion sensors on them. Not sure what the use will be.

I'm wondering why not LED's instead?

 

[acer66]

Got it for free or dirt cheap would be my guess.

 

[Oggy]

Got it for free or dirt cheap would be my guess.

This. If it's a public corporation, they can then replace the bulbs and say it's a "cost savings..."

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[AntonLargiader]

6-tube T5HO fixtures throw off a LOT of light, they are cheap, and the efficiency isn't that far off. Doesn't mean it's the right choice, but it's not automatically a terrible decision.

https://www.topbulb.com/blog/comparing-t5ho-fluorescent-lamps-t8-led-t5/

 

[Chucktin]

Could also be inertia and resistance to change. Or maybe the price was right.

 

[Dragfluid]

OK, all valid points. Thank you.

 

[cybrdyke]

Short sighted bean counter chose lower initial cost of fixture instead of longer term lower cost of ownership, energy and maintenance.
CD

 

[Dragfluid]

Short sighted bean counter chose lower initial cost of fixture instead of longer term lower cost of ownership, energy and maintenance.
CD

Indeed.

 

[nadogail]

Too many short sighted bean counters have messed up too many things.

 

[kd3pc]

might need RF quiet or a particular light quality/color...LEDs will also load the HVAC differently.

 

[frankush]

I'll be the first to admit that LEDS are the future, but they are not for every situation. 40' mounting height is way the hell up there. If it's a commercial building the lighting layout and type was probably designed by an engineer. He is trained to know what works best for any particular need and that's what he specs. LEDS in this situation would probably create harmonics issues if there are boatloads of them. Harmonics create heat in electrical systems and screw with the voltage. There are ways to fix this, but at an increased cost. 20 fixtures in someone's garage won't create the same problems that could show up in this type of install.

The biggest problem with LED fixtures is that they are disposable. 5 years or 50K hrs is the standard warranty. Commercial grade LED fixtures are not inexpensive initially, but I also wouldn't want to replace all of them down the road. It's not just the cost of the fixtures, but the labor to replace them. Those old T8 or T12 fixtures in your garage or basement might be 20 years old and can be modernized without going out and buying new throw away fixtures.

Remember when a TV used to last 10 to 20 years? Not any more. LED fixtures are exactly the same. The technology will only get better as time goes by and as longevity increases they'll get away from specifying T5s.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Cause if they were LED, someone would steal them.

 

[brewchief]

A friend got a ton of 6 bulb fixtures like that from the warehouse he works at, many had the motion sensor and would have two bulbs on all the time and the others would come on when motion was sensed.

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[Stuart in MN]

There are plenty of high bay LED fixtures available these days - after all, if they work for street lighting or stadium lighting, a 40' high ceiling isn't going to be a problem. It is unusual to spec fluorescents anymore for this kind of application. I wonder if the engineer 'cut and pasted' the fixtures from a previous design and didn't think about it...I've done similar things before myself, although not on this scale.

 

[walta]

Most likely the bean counter paying to buy the fixtures is not going to be paying the utility bills after the building is finished and rented.


Walta

 

[BillK]

might need RF quiet

Funny you said this. Went to change two T-12 bulbs in my garage today and the tombstones fell apart. Off to Home Depot but no tombstones to be had. Was just about ready to pull the trigger on a complete new LED fixture but started thinking about my ham gear sitting six feet from this fixture. After seeing so many complaints about rf noise with LED's and since I already had two brand new bulbs I just bought another two bulb T-12 fixture with a residential ballast. Got it up and no noise

Good for another 30 years

 

[slow]

Most likely the bean counter paying to buy the fixtures is not going to be paying the utility bills after the building is finished and rented.


Walta

Exactly what I was going to post!

 

[s14kev]

In a high bay setting, I'd much rather those T5HO fixtures than the majority of the cheaper LED options available right now. T5HO provide intense light that is hard to match for the same price in a high bay setting. Those fixtures are quality metal with mirror reflectors compared to most LED fixtures. They probably put off 30000 lumens each. If I was lighting 136,000sqft, it allows for far fewer fixtures especially when suspended at height. Cost to run may not end up that different to LED depending on what LED fixtures fit in their budget.

 

[cybrdyke]

The T5HO fixtures pictured by the OP will consume 360 watts each and deliver 29,000 lumens (80.5 lumens/watt). After 35,000 hours, 50% of the lamps will be dead. Cost of energy over 10 years* is $1440 per fixture.
A comparable LED fixture will consume 224 watts each and deliver 29,200 lumens (130 lumens/watt). After 60,000 hours, they'll still be running at 20,400 lumens. Cost of energy over 10 years* is $896 per fixture.
The LED fixtures are over 50% more efficient. Each LED fixture saves $540 in energy over 10 years. Each T5HO fixture will need to have a new set of lamps in that time, costing another $20 per fixture.
*based on 4000 hours per year at 10c per KwHr.
CD

 

[b-boy]

I just had a 1 year old LED high bay UFO light fail. There was a 5-year warranty.

These were not cheap units. To get it replaced/repaired I have to jump through a bunch of hoops. I have to pay shipping. They will repair or replace at their discretion, and I might not see it for a month.

Changing out bulbs is looking better and better. Now I'm concerned about the rest of them.

 

[Norcal]

If the tenant is paying the utility bills and the lease requires the tenant to maintain the lighting, from a LL’s prospective why not buy cheap? They will not get a return on the extra money spent.

 

[BillK]

I just had a 1 year old LED high bay UFO light fail. There was a 5-year warranty.

These were not cheap units. To get it replaced/repaired I have to jump through a bunch of hoops. I have to pay shipping. They will repair or replace at their discretion, and I might not see it for a month.

Changing out bulbs is looking better and better. Now I'm concerned about the rest of them.

That is one reason I recently just converted all of my T12 fixtures to replaceable led tubes. I am pretty sure I am going to get 6 more old school fixtures and put LED tubes in them. If I had installed sealed fixtures and one fails I have to get up there and undo wiring and undo the entire fixture etc. Then hope the same fixture is available two years from now.

Also, I bought my tubes from the local supply house two blocks from the shop. They were about 20% more through them but if I need to replace one or get more I can walk there. No shipping etc etc.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I just had a 1 year old LED high bay UFO light fail. There was a 5-year warranty.

These were not cheap units. To get it replaced/repaired I have to jump through a bunch of hoops. I have to pay shipping. They will repair or replace at their discretion, and I might not see it for a month.

Changing out bulbs is looking better and better. Now I'm concerned about the rest of them.

Please share link to fixture purchased.

 

[Bert_]

I put about 15 Lithonia IBH highbays in a lumber yard about 5 years ago. To date every single one of them failed. Part or all of the array would go out. They warrantied the fixtures but I still had to go change them out.

Maybe it was just a bad batch or something, I guess nobody really knows. Up until the last year or so I really did not promote led fixtures unless asked specifically. I would rather let others deal with the **** as a technology matures.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I put about 15 Lithonia IBH highbays in a lumber yard about 5 years ago. To date every single one of them failed. Part or all of the array would go out...

Then they're either overdriving the LEDs, using **** LEDs, have bad solder joints, or all of the above.

 

[Bert_]

Then they're either overdriving the LEDs, using **** LEDs, have bad solder joints, or all of the above.

No idea. All I know is when you buy from a large brand like that I expect a better fixture. Now I know Lithonia isn't exactly the best of the best but that kind of performance is what I would expect from eBay/Amazon junk.

Makes it a little hard to embrace the new technology without letting somebody else test drive it for a few years first. That said I've been slow to move to new technology long before that.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Lithonia has always been a hit or miss company. They tend to use the thinnest sheet metal they can get away with. Back in the fluorescent days you had the option of specifying a name brand ballast. If you didn't, you'd get some mystery brand POS ballast. If you specified a decent ballast, it was really up to the end user how long the fixture would function based on the quality of the separately purchased bulb.

The LED evolution forced lighting manufacturers to become bulb manufacturers in the form of LED Arrays (aka: Light Engine). The downfall of integrated LED fixtures is the inability for the customer to specify the bulb.

Best you can do now is select the highest efficiency (lumens per watt) your budget permits as that is a good indicator of proper LED array design. Identifying the driver manufacturer is also a good idea - avoiding the generic house brand from Lithonia (assuming they have one).

 

[yeldogt]

LED is the future ... But there is a lot of junk out there. Not to say there was not a lot of junk in the incandescent world ... there was.

I have had the same problem w/ generic LED utility fixtures .... they don't hold up

Personally some of the T5's are too bright for me .. I like the T8's. But, I guess the 5's way up would be fine. My guess is the cost of the fixtures has something to do with it ... how is the building getting electric? How many hours are they on?

Really good architectural LED fixtures/lighting is very expensive.

 

[PhantomEB]

Personal preference I guess. I like the fluorescents in my shop and keep the LEDs on the vehicles.