Why not Through-The-Wall instead of a Mini Split?

[Stroonzo]

It dawned on me: here I am looking for a mini split when maybe all I should be considering is a through the wall unit.

The unit would be ready to run. Installation would be much quicker. I was already considering putting the evaporator and condenser on the same exterior wall. This is the back wall of my detached on the back side of my property.

What are the downsides? The EER of these units are pretty high (8.5 - 9.3). Note that is EER not SEER. I can still get both cooling and heating. The through the wall units are available in 230 / 240v configurations. I can easily save over $1000 on an 18,000 - 23,500 BTU unit.

Here is one i was looking at:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GM336EG/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Which is even cheaper throgh AJ Madison ($789 after rebate):
http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/EP24G33A.html

 

[Mike007]

I chose a thru wall over a mini split. Yes a thru the wall is going to be less efficient. But for me, I only run the A/C a few times a year. So I wouldn't save anything. Plus I like being able to just pull it out of the wall and washing the coils and sticking it back in.

 

[harvero]

You would be giving up the heating option of the mini split in the winter.

 

[sourdough]

I chose a thru wall over a mini split. Yes a thru the wall is going to be less efficient. But for me, I only run the A/C a few times a year. So I wouldn't save anything. Plus I like being able to just pull it out of the wall and washing the coils and sticking it back in.

I agree, Mike, except the unit price for it would be far less than a mini-split. If the thru-the-wall unit goes **** up, a new unit just slides into place in less than an hour, as you say.

I have heard that Friedrich's is a top quality A/C but I have never seen one. Spendy, though.

Home Depot has an LG 24,500 BTU window unit that could be used with some modification for the facia at a lesser price.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/LG-Elect...h-Remote-LW2514ER/205139220?N=5yc1vZc4luZ1xr5

I have an LG 120v 15,000 BTU R-22 window unit that I installed in a jalousie type window 5 years ago that required the removal of the window and all hardware and built an interior weatherproof/airtight frame from wood to fit the installed frame opening along with an exterior support platform as this unit weighs over 100#. I am sure a 24,000 BTU unit is heavier still. I'm sure you can figure out how to mount it in a through-the-wall install with little grief.

I have had zero problems with the LG but I have heard blips here and there online that LG is not making the same unit I have (probably using R-410a as a sub for R-22). I dunno.

Just my $.02 worth.

 

[finn]

My Mitsubishi mini split is orders of magnitude quieter than any thru the wall unit I have ever heard. Maybe not important in the shop but sure is a nice bonus in the house.

 

[Mike007]

My Mitsubishi mini split is orders of magnitude quieter than any thru the wall unit I have ever heard. Maybe not important in the shop but sure is a nice bonus in the house.

Yes, I would never opt for a thru wall in the home either.

 

[Jagmandave]

That last unit from Home Depot doesn't have heat, does it?

I bought an 18K window unit with heat for about $585 to use in my garage. I took out half the window sash and built it in, works perfectly and cools my 600 sq ft garage in our 100*+ summers with no problems, it also does a great job heating in the winter......you can see it in this pic, next to the wife's Audi.

View media item 35594
Works for me.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I have a condo I rent out. It has a 25k thru wall. I had to replace it twice in 15yrs. All the units were built with them. Very simple to replace. If it was my personal house I wouldn't want a hole in my house, but I am not sure I would want a big white thing on the wall either. I am spoiled with the central AC.

 

[Stroonzo]

Well, with this being my detached garage and with the unit only being used when I am in there working, it seems like the wall unit I am considering is a good option. My house is on its own central unit.

As far as the noise level, I suppose that is the trade off. I am curious why there isn't a through the wall unit with features found on the splits i.e. inverter technology and heat pump options.

The unit I am eyeballing does have electric supplemental heat which I am confident in its ability to suffice for the area I am conditioning.

The main factors driving me to the consideration of a wall unit over the split is not having an aesthetic need to split the system, ease of installation, and price. In fact, one of the great features of the through the wall unit is the system is already wall mounted on the outside (which was the plan on the split).

I just want to be sure I won't regret this over the mini. With the garage (future shop) being unfinished right now, I would not like to have to run / install a split in the future if the through the wall unit ends up being a bad decision.

There is about a $1,000 difference here. It is a considerable amount of money now, but not in the future if I end up having to switch it out.

So it is either the wall unit or a Mitsubishi Mr. Slim.

 

[Highbeam]

The package units are big, require two big outside ducts, noisy, less efficient, and dont make heat in cold weather like a mini. They aren't just noisy inside, the outside unit is very loud like nearly 80db or way more than a gas generator.

 

[mwchase]

You can get Heat Pump through the wall or PTAC units as well.

I had a PTAC in my last garage and it got the job done and would for you too but this is why I am putting in a mini split on the new garage

1. Efficiency, the PTACs or through the wall units will use twice the electricity as a mini split.

2. Looks, my PTAC stuck out on my patio next to the garage, looked trashy

3. Noise, not only inside but outside when sitting on the patio

4. I can get a smoking deal on a mini split since I am a HVAC service tech

As I tell customers, "Mini splits are ****!" Ok I don't say that but that is what I think.

 

[Bogey won]

Same song,same dance,5 tons of cold,$1250 installed turn key (parts and labor) used out of a double wide.Heat also,was for 5k footage trailer,cant be beat,wasn't a believer till i was one,and still am,good luck to ya.

 

[Stroonzo]

Mini Split - That's the right way. Better to do these things right the first time around.

 

[arrowhead]

I don't get why everyone pushes the mini split. Maybe it's fashionable for a garagemahall, but seriously in a shop or working garage it's overkill, more expensive and more work to install. I opted for a thru wall unit and it's awesome. Didn't think I'd use it much and was a waste of money but it's been a life saver and I've used it quite a bit this summer. Cools down 600 sqft in no time and has no problem keeping up under the highest temps and humidity (for our climate). I made a simple insulated cover for it to keep heat loss down to minimum in the winter (in the Northeast electric heat pump or electric heat is the spawn of satan) as I have a gas heater anyway.

 

[pseudorealityx]

Answers to various questions brought up in this thread...

1) Why don't through wall (window shakers) have heating/inverter tech?

Answer: The 'goal' of window shakers was to provide some auxillary cooling for houses that historically only had heating systems. They were typically installed in windows, and therefore are a bad choice for heating applications due to the poor installation when you want an 70 degree delta between indoor and outdoor. Way less important in summer when you're only looking for a 20 degree delta.


2) Why do people push mini-splits over window shakers?

Answer: Cleaner install, much higher efficiency, quieter, better air distribution, etc.

3) I won't make up my money with the higher efficiency units...

Answer: depends. When look at SEER values, when the system is running in cooling mode, you can approximately compare two SEER values as a fraction. For example.

If a 10 SEER unit will cost you $10 to run, an 11 SEER unit will cost you...

(10/11) * $10 = $9.09 to run.
(10/13) * $10 = $7.69 to run.

etc

Comparing window shakers to mini-splits, there's a significant difference in performance values that can add up over a few years.

 

[dmoore]

How fancy does this need to be? What is the functionality that needs to be provided?

Wall Mount Unit all the way. By the time you make any money back on the additional investment in a split mini, you'll be on to a new house.

 

[deter]

I agree 100%. minisplits are nice, but I just don't see the value being used in a garage

 

[Wildstar]

Apparently, most of the folks here have never stayed in a motel in the winter. PTACs in motels put out copious amounts of heat.
Use what fits your situation and your wallet.

 

[Jinks]

I've had both. A through the wall heat pump in a detached shop in my last home. Inexpensive, a little over sized to actually meet the cooling/heating needs, & pretty noisy. It also stuck out the back wall like a mechanical wart, but since it was behind a fence at the back of the property it didn't matter much.

My current shop is attached to the house & I didn't want the mechanical wart hangin' off the side of the house. I also like being able to leave the door open to the house when I'm workin' in the shop. The mini-split is unbelievably quiet. It doesn't create any noise to drift into the house, I can play music while I work without having it blaring, & it was no more difficult to install than the heat pump.

Both have advantages, it just depends on what works for you.

 

[Jagmandave]

I don't know why the pejorative "window shakers" is being used, the one I installed is absolutely quiet, at least on the inside of my garage, it's much quieter than a box fan and definitely does the job.

As to cost, when I was using the heat function every day during a really bad cold snap it added almost $20 to that month's bill - to me worth every penny as it made it possible to work in the garage where I couldn't have before.

I only use it occasionally in the summer and haven't noticed any real difference in the electric bill then.

Mine is a 220v unit, FWIW. Draws about 7 amps in A/C mode, up to 21amps in full on heat mode.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Apparently, most of the folks here have never stayed in a motel in the winter. PTACs in motels put out copious amounts of heat.
Use what fits your situation and your wallet.[/QUOTEl

They also usually heat with electric strip heaters here up north and they all use a crapload of electricity, even if you have one that is a heat pump...

Tommy

 

[Stroonzo]

Well, after much internal debate, this is what I determined:

As far as heat goes - I don't need it. Before "Garage 2.0" I used heat once. I needed it to help paint dry. For that I used an electric quartz heater. At that time the garage was completely unfinished with no insulation. I personally do not like heat. So losing the Mitsubishi high performance heat pump is no big deal. I am in the Houston area.

Efficiency - not really a big deal considering I would use the shop on weekends and evenings mostly. Plus the EER on the Freidrich is 11.2. That is good and compared to SEER, that would be more like a SEER rating of 15 to 16.

I had no reason or need to split the system. Actually splitting the system in my case and configuration would have just been work and extra cost for nothing.

Installation of the wall unit is 100% self install and maintains warranty. No flaring, no evacuation, no leak tests, no charging, etc...

The Freidrich CP18G30A is rated for 520 CFM and the same amount of moisture removal as a split.

Bottom line is it serves my needs and has easily saved me well over $1,000 and a lot of time. It may be a little louder, but I bet it is a lot quieter than my 32" industrial fan I have had to use for the last 10 years!

This is what I ended up getting:

$609 After Rebate
http://www.ajmadison.com/cgi-bin/ajmadison/CP18G30A.html

 

[Falcon67]

> I am in the Houston area.
Ya, you need a heater maybe twice a year and three times every 5 or so when that one extra cold front gets down that far. (while our lawns are dormant in north Texas, this guy still has to mow LOL)

Nice pick on the 18K, looks like a real good efficient unit.

I seem to like the challenge of modifying window units and sticking them in the wall. Works good for me. This is a 10K Samsung for the 24x28 space. I stripped off the window mount parts and fabbed some brackets. I'm about to try it with an 8K LG unit in the work room.

 

[sourdough]

Stroonzo: Good call!

Falcon67: Nice install! (Your GFCI male plug must be oriented differently than mine. I would have to reverse the receptacle for that orientation.)

My 15K LG window unit in a jalousie window opening.

The original window configuration.

Just for grins, I looked for window unit install vids on YouTube and was appalled at what I saw.

This is par for most all install vids:

I am glad that most of you guys on GJ have a much better sense of good installation.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I agree 100%. minisplits are nice, but I just don't see the value being used in a garage

It depends on how many hours a year you are going to use it !

Used window/PTAC units are often available cheap. It would take many. MANY hours of operation for a mini-split to beat a $100 A/C unit.

If you are in it for the long term and especially if heat is important, pay the money for a mini-split.



One thing you can do with a small mini-split that you can't do with a window A/C is install it in a spare bedroom with and outside cord and plug. One that size should run on 120V. Next serious weather event, a small inverter generator will keep that one room warm or cool and have enough spare power for a TV, and a dorm fridge. Turn off the A/C and you could run a microwave or a hot plate. Your own "bunker" within your own home.