Why tool warranties are great.

[WildwoodChuck]

Probably one of those jobs that if you take the 4 hours to remove all the components you have room to get to the bolts with the proper tool. This short cut probably shaved 1/2 the actual repair time for the "Pro" and the "Shop" gets to charge the flat rate. My question is if the bolt is that tight for a reason then it should be that tight when replaced and I just don't see the 1/4" drive getting that done.

 

[cotjocky]

Probably one of those jobs that if you take the 4 hours to remove all the components you have room to get to the bolts with the proper tool. This short cut probably shaved 1/2 the actual repair time for the "Pro" and the "Shop" gets to charge the flat rate. My question is if the bolt is that tight for a reason then it should be that tight when replaced and I just don't see the 1/4" drive getting that done.

Although this may not have anything to do with why this particular wrench was broken…

You gotta understand the mentality of some flat raters. Seems a lot of techs start out and get all the simple work and make good bank on a lower flat rate. Then as they get experienced and certified and get closer to being or are a "master tech", they end up with a high flat rate, but get all the **** work. Diagnosis, comebacks, etc… Stuff that takes 4 real hours and only get paid 1 (warranty, comeback and **** work). Sometimes the less trained, less pay people get the easier stuff and do 3 hour paid jobs in 1 hour (gravy jobs). This eventually pisses off the master tech cause he's working 50 hours a week and getting paid 25-30 on average and the guy that makes less per hour is actually bringing home more money with less stress.

Once you deal with this for awhile and you know you are going to get the comebacks anyways, you begin to not give a ****.

Most people who have been in dealerships/flat rate for years, get burned out on the politics and how little they end up making for all their time, money and tools invested. At that point you don't care about your tools, your work or much of anything else other than just getting through another day.

Just some insight I have noticed about some people, not saying all flat raters are that way or trying to ruffle feathers.

 

[sk farmer]

WOW, you guys really took offense to this. To a situation to which your knowledge is only based on the words strung together on a screen. It was a lower engine motor mount, had to crack it to raise the motor to take out the lower control arm. He would of used a 3/8 if he could of. HE HAS 4 IN HIS TOOLS BOX. Not calling people hypocrites, but how many of you have grabbed a chrome socket put it on an impact and cracked it, or while using a breaker bar. Using a screwdriver as a pry bar and snap the tip on it. Attach a 3 foot cheater bar onto a ratchet and bust up the gears. Then get them warrantied. Dont have to get all fired up about it.

yes i do take offense to this. it is more than a few words. you posted pics of the damaged tools. i look at it like this. if a tire has a road hazard warranty and you hit an object in the road, then turn around and hit it two more times ruining three tires in the process. would you think that is ok? warranty abuse is warranty abuse no matter what the warranty is on. the warranty is to cover the unexpected things. not things done repeatedly wrong.

have i done the things you mention? yup. when i was a hack i may have done it on rare occasion but not anymore and if i have to i surely don't abuse a warranty to get it replaced. as fedwrench stated doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is crazy.

maybe he should have invested in a compact 3/8 ratchet and some extra shallow sockets than 3 long 1/4 drive ratchets.

 

[Chuck122]

I would also like to know what he ended up using to get that bolt out.

 

[joedodge]

Hahaha I'm glad everyone has so much input on this matter it's cheap entertainment

 

[bobemmerich]

Quote-"You gotta understand the mentality of some flat raters. Seems a lot of techs start out and get all the simple work and make good bank on a lower flat rate. Then as they get experienced and certified and get closer to being or are a "master tech", they end up with a high flat rate, but get all the **** work. Diagnosis, comebacks, etc… Stuff that takes 4 real hours and only get paid 1 (warranty, comeback and **** work). Sometimes the less trained, less pay people get the easier stuff and do 3 hour paid jobs in 1 hour (gravy jobs). This eventually pisses off the master tech cause he's working 50 hours a week and getting paid 25-30 on average and the guy that makes less per hour is actually bringing home more money with less stress."

This is why I'm glad I got of the business. I miss working on cars and being up on the latest technology, but I took a look and couldn't see myself doing it anymore. KUDOS to the guys/girls that do.
As far as the OP...I would have stopped after breaking the 1st ratchet, but they're HIS tools. If he thinks this is what it takes to get a job done, so be it. I just hope he has other 1/4 drives if he needs them for another job.

 

[Olafur]

Even better than tool warranty is to know when you are out of good ideas - and it's time for a break to take your mind off the task. Give your subconscious mind a chance to come up with solutions.

This is difficult to do if you are under pressure and someone is breathing down your neck. But often the best thing to do. Cup of coffee and a magazine, little web browsing, chat with someone about something trivial - and when you least expect it something pops up.

 

[abvw]

Probably one of those jobs that if you take the 4 hours to remove all the components you have room to get to the bolts with the proper tool. This short cut probably shaved 1/2 the actual repair time for the "Pro" and the "Shop" gets to charge the flat rate. My question is if the bolt is that tight for a reason then it should be that tight when replaced and I just don't see the 1/4" drive getting that done.

One time I had to take out the cooling fans, alternator and AC compressor (and all the accompanied brackets and harness hold downs) just to access one 10mm bolt holding down the timing belt covers. Took me about 45 minutes. With all the components off the engine it takes about 5 seconds to zip it out.

Removing a fastener (especially on out of warranty vehicles where rust starts to develop) usually takes double or more effort than installing. Like Honda crank pulleys bolts, takes about 140 lb/ft to install, but you'd probably break three breaker bars (and bend your 6ft cheater pipe) removing it.

 

[Southern]

I have a but that travels for some work. Got a Cadillac and drives like a bat out of hell. Makes 40 an hour before takes, they pay milage, always timing it door to door to see if its 8 hrs or 8'20, I tell him, slow down 5 add 20 or 30 minutes and save 5 gallons, maybe more of fuel. Not to mention wear on the brakes from rushing up on everyone they gonna accelerate to pass. Cash money in the pocket.

...the hell, are you having a stroke or something?

 

[toolaholic]

Still want to know that make/model car and engine.

 

[toolaholic]

Still want to know that make/model car and engine.

Really want to know what cars motor mount needed a 1/4 drive ratchet.

 

[scottv]

Really want to know what cars motor mount needed a 1/4 drive ratchet.

Same here! Tell us.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

My wifes Acura MDX did. It was so cramped I used a 1/4 drive 14mm socket had i gone in from the top and removed the top of the mount first i might have been able to get in with a 3/8 drive but I did it with the hex caps on a 1/4 drive socket.

 

[00S4Boy]

whats the point of a long 1/4 drive ratchet anyways.

They can be handy and useful, like taking off timing cover bolts so your not sticking your hand in between the fender and the engine trying to hold the ratchet, rather you can just hold the tip of the handle.

My wifes Acura MDX did. It was so cramped I used a 1/4 drive 14mm socket had i gone in from the top and removed the top of the mount first i might have been able to get in with a 3/8 drive but I did it with the hex caps on a 1/4 drive socket.

What the front motor mount by the radiator?

 

[86k10]

I think a 1/4" drive will break off @ 44 ft.lbs. I think he didn't have the right tool for the job.

 

[K-Dog]

, but tool trucks come tomorrow.

You are soooooooooooooooo lucky.
My tools always break as he is pulling out of the parking lot.

 

[DodgeMech]

View media item 38872
A co worker managed to break 3- 1/4 ratchets today all on the same car. 2 Matco and one Snap on. Snap on Ratchet didnt even make it a week, but tool trucks come tomorrow.

That's crazy...worst thing I ever did to my lil snappy was use it and a cheeta pipe on a cummins exhaust manifold bolt...all I did was tear the handle off

 

[d.mcfarland]

What size was the fastener? 15mm??

 

[DodgeMech]

What size was the fastener? 15mm??

If you're talking to me, it was a 13...on a common rail B series in a dodge...had to pull mani/turbo off head and for some reason I didn't think to grab a 13 mil wrench for that bolt like I normally do...either way I got er off

 

[Chadwilliam1]

They can be handy and useful, like taking off timing cover bolts so your not sticking your hand in between the fender and the engine trying to hold the ratchet, rather you can just hold the tip of the handle.



What the front motor mount by the radiator?

No when I was doing the Tbelt on her 07 the mount in the way. So its right above the passenger tire.

 

[d.mcfarland]

If you're talking to me, it was a 13...on a common rail B series in a dodge...had to pull mani/turbo off head and for some reason I didn't think to grab a 13 mil wrench for that bolt like I normally do...either way I got er off

Sorry, I meant the OP, but you have a good point. On a (most likely) seized up exhaust manifold bolt, you gotta do what you gotta do!! Heck, I've had to move up from 3/8 for just an alternator bolt on an Explorer. I think it was 13 mm or less. Hahaha, sometimes **** happens, but with the OP's friend, sometimes, 4th time is a charm.

 

[rr1963]

With that type off damage you would think he would have broken a few sockets. Never heard of them shearing like that before. Maybe there was latent defect with those ratchets?

 

[isr2kba]

With that type off damage you would think he would have broken a few sockets. Never heard of them shearing like that before. Maybe there was latent defect with those ratchets?

In the backwards new world I suspect that's viewed as a feature intended to let the users knuckles down a little easier than catastrophic gear failure.

additionally it insures odds the ratchet can be rebuilt a few times.

 

[d.mcfarland]

With that type off damage you would think he would have broken a few sockets. Never heard of them shearing like that before. Maybe there was latent defect with those ratchets?

I think this is true also. If the ratchet's teeth slip then the user faces hand injury, but if the square drive and socket separate from the handle then the user will likely fare better in the injury department.

Most newer truck brand ratchets are breaking like this nowadays for what it's worth. On purpose I add.

 

[toolaholic]

I'm bad. I still want to know what engine and make/model car this lower motor mount was on. If anything as a learning tool. For example,when I installed the lower intake manifold on my daughters 3.1v6(99 lumina) i forgot to change out thermostat. Only thing that fit on lower bolt was a 13mm stubby. Not long enough(torque) to break bolt free. Longer wrench would not fit. I ended up using a husky 13mm connected to a napa long pattern 12mm via a ez red wrench extender. Since a torque wrench would not fit. I guessed at 30lb ft using a slightler longer(than the husky 13mm) craftsman locking flex head stubby 13mm wrench.

 

[signcrafter]

I'm bad. I still want to know what engine and make/model car this lower motor mount was on. If anything as a learning tool. For example,when I installed the lower intake manifold on my daughters 3.1v6(99 lumina) i forgot to change out thermostat. Only thing that fit on lower bolt was a 13mm stubby. Not long enough(torque) to break bolt free. Longer wrench would not fit. I ended up using a husky 13mm connected to a napa long pattern 12mm via a ez red wrench extender. Since a torque wrench would not fit. I guessed at 30lb ft using a slightler longer(than the husky 13mm) craftsman locking flex head stubby 13mm wrench.

http://www.tooltopia.com/k-tool-international-751.aspx

 

[sk farmer]

I think this is true also. If the ratchet's teeth slip then the user faces hand injury, but if the square drive and socket separate from the handle then the user will likely fare better in the injury department.

Most newer truck brand ratchets are breaking like this nowadays for what it's worth. On purpose I add.

i am going to disagree on a couple of counts here.

first, i don't see how you would fare much better if the drive lug broke vs. internal parts. an injured hand doesn't know what breaks and it doesn't care what broke. if it slammed into a sharp corner or jagged piece of metal. it only know that it broke and the end is result is bruised, ****** or broken knuckles.

second, i don't believe and highly doubt that anyone is designing drive lugs to shear off. the reality is that the internal mechanism in many cases is now stronger than the drive lug. in the past the internal parts would simply fail before damage could be done to the drive lug, giving you the impression that the drive lug was very strong. now that the ratcheting mechanism is stronger it is simply transferring enough rotational force to shear off the drive lug.

put into simple terms, drive lugs are probably as strong or stronger than they have ever been. it is the ratcheting mechanism that has become robust and less prone to failure.

 

[toolaholic]

http://www.tooltopia.com/k-tool-international-751.aspx

Yeah that sure would of made things easier! Least I got to use my EZ red wrench extenders. I should of did it when intake was off but I totally forgot.

 

[Grimly]

View media item 38872
A co worker managed to break 3- 1/4 ratchets today all on the same car. 2 Matco and one Snap on. Snap on Ratchet didnt even make it a week, but tool trucks come tomorrow.

He must be as thick as a plank.