Why would a fridge require a non GFI circuit?

[Davegvg]

Woke up last night to find the new fridge shut off.

Saw it popped the GFI reset and while I was up pondering what was going on - looked at the manual as I was curious what the draw listed was.

Indeed it requires and call for a "dedicated" non GFI circuit.

This seems strange in a kitchen appliance to me and Im curious if anyone has any input on why this may be?

Thanks.

Dave

 

[PelicanPines]

For the reason you found... a tripped GFCI could ruin everything in the fridge freezer. I have a deep freeze standup freezer in my garage. Long story short... it is on a SINGLE PLUG NON-GFCI outlet well labelled. I lost the entire contents once... hundreds of dollars of cow parts, chicken parts.... etc. wasted.

I can't say the freezer is the thing that tripped the GFCI circut tho.

My kitchen fridge is also on a seperate line from the Kitchen GFCI circuts. It happens to be on the same line as the dining room in the next room.

Sorry to the sparkies and the NEC codes. It makes NO sense to put a fridge or freezer on a line that you would have LITTLE idea was suddenly dead.

 

[Farmall450]

For the reason you found... a tripped GFCI could ruin everything in the fridge freezer. I have a deep freeze standup freezer in my garage. Long story short... it is on a SINGLE PLUG NON-GFCI outlet well labelled. I lost the entire contents once... hundreds of dollars of cow parts, chicken parts.... etc. wasted.

I can't say the freezer is the thing that tripped the GFCI circut tho.

My kitchen fridge is also on a seperate line from the Kitchen GFCI circuts. It happens to be on the same line as the dining room in the next room.

Sorry to the sparkies and the NEC codes. It makes NO sense to put a fridge or freezer on a line that you would have LITTLE idea was suddenly dead.

What he said. Not the place to add a failure point, especially from the damage that can happen during a normal day away at work etc

 

[Davegvg]

For the reason you found... a tripped GFCI could ruin everything in the fridge freezer. I have a deep freeze standup freezer in my garage. Long story short... it is on a SINGLE PLUG NON-GFCI outlet well labelled. I lost the entire contents once... hundreds of dollars of cow parts, chicken parts.... etc. wasted.

I can't say the freezer is the thing that tripped the GFCI circut tho.

My kitchen fridge is also on a seperate line from the Kitchen GFCI circuts. It happens to be on the same line as the dining room in the next room.

Sorry to the sparkies and the NEC codes. It makes NO sense to put a fridge or freezer on a line that you would have LITTLE idea was suddenly dead.

Ok added failure point - sure that part makes sense.

Why would the new fridge trip (after a seemingly random amount of run time) it but the old one wouldn't?

 

[PelicanPines]

Ok added failure point - sure that part makes sense.

Why would the new fridge trip (after a seemingly random amount of run time) it but the old one wouldn't?

I can't say for sure. Is it a dedicated GFCI ? or are there other things fed by that GFCI load... because any failure along the load side would also trip the GFCI.

In my case... the garage freezer outlet (originally) was fed by an outlet outside the garage. A storm with blowing rain tripped it... as it does maybe once a year or so. My issue here was... I had the freezer plugged into that line as well.

 

[Meursault74]

Ok added failure point - sure that part makes sense.

Why would the new fridge trip (after a seemingly random amount of run time) it but the old one wouldn't?

I would swap out the GFCI outlet to a normal one, plug your fridge back in and not worry about it.

What's odd is that the location for a fridge had a GFCI in the first place.

 

[wssix99]

GFCI outlets go bad. When they do, they fail "off." It's not the fridge manufacturer but electric code that exempts the GFCI from use.

 

[sparky 1971]

Ok added failure point - sure that part makes sense.

Why would the new fridge trip (after a seemingly random amount of run time) it but the old one wouldn't?

They sometimes trip for no apparent reason. There is always a reason, we just don't always know what it is. I have a total of six GFCI protected outlets at my place. One next to the kitchen sink, one in each of two bathrooms, and three exterior receptacles. There is a reason I don't have any in the basement, garage, sump pump, or for the refrigerator and freezer. There are very few exemptions in the NEC for GFCI's.

 

[PelicanPines]

Some of my LONG STORY.

After diagnosing my issue with that freezer. I had a sparky come in to add an outlet plug (single) specifically for that freezer. I explained my problem with the GFCI and I wanted the single outlet fed by NON-GFCI protected line voltage.

The NIMROD SPARKY (sorry to you sparkies)... ran a load line from the original GFCI to the new outlet... causing a SECOND FAILURE and loss of more money than the sparky charged. I felt like sending him a bill for my steak.

I fixed the wiring myself and can confirm... we are good now. All outlets in the garage are GFCI protected EXCEPT for the SINGLE well labelled outlet for the freezer.

 

[sparky 1971]

GFCI outlets go bad. When they do, they fail "off." It's not the fridge manufacturer but electric code that exempts the GFCI from use.

The NEC states that receptacles within 6' of the sink need to have GFCI protection and has so for quite a while. I don't agree with a fridge being included in that, but it is. Also, they don't always fail to off, even though they are supposed to, and then not reset. I've seen more than my share of bad GFCI's that won't trip.

 

[Davegvg]

I would swap out the GFCI outlet to a normal one, plug your fridge back in and not worry about it.

What's odd is that the location for a fridge had a GFCI in the first place.

I did. So far problem solved.

The fridge never had a GFI outlet - it was on a circuit with 2 other GFI outlets.
The closest outlet to it popped its gfi and it killed the fridge.

 

[Meursault74]

I did. So far problem solved.

The fridge never had a GFI outlet - it was on a circuit with 2 other GFI outlets.
The closest outlet to it popped its gfi and it killed the fridge.

Probably a retrofit addition. I think the code is 6ft from a sink. Someone probably changed it as some point.

If that was the case you may not even have needed to change the GFCI outlet. You could have pigtailed the wires before the GFCI in question so that the wires that feed the fridge aren't on the "load" of the GCFI and thus won't be shut off.

 

[dscheidt]

Any domestic appliance that doesn't work on GFCI protected circuit is defective. It's either broken, or it's defective by design. Everything in commercial kitchens has been GFCI protected for years, and reach ins do not ever trip the GFCI, at least until the defrost circuit shorts out.

 

[Davegvg]

Any domestic appliance that doesn't work on GFCI protected circuit is defective. It's either broken, or it's defective by design. Everything in commercial kitchens has been GFCI protected for years, and reach ins do not ever trip the GFCI, at least until the defrost circuit shorts out.

By your definition its defective by design then.

 

[klassenl]

Any domestic appliance that doesn't work on GFCI protected circuit is defective.... at least until the defrost circuit shorts out.

And there's your problem.

 

[u2slow]

Why would the new fridge trip (after a seemingly random amount of run time) it but the old one wouldn't?

Heating elements often have an acceptable (minimal) ground leakage. Such an element may be used to evaporate condensation in this particular fridge. FWIW, many electric ranges exhibit this leakage from the heating elements, but because we don't put them on GFCI circuits, we never realize it.

 

[Jim greengo]

For the reason you found... a tripped GFCI could ruin everything in the fridge freezer. I have a deep freeze standup freezer in my garage. Long story short... it is on a SINGLE PLUG NON-GFCI outlet well labelled. I lost the entire contents once... hundreds of dollars of cow parts, chicken parts.... etc. wasted.

I can't say the freezer is the thing that tripped the GFCI circut tho.

My kitchen fridge is also on a seperate line from the Kitchen GFCI circuts. It happens to be on the same line as the dining room in the next room.

Sorry to the sparkies and the NEC codes. It makes NO sense to put a fridge or freezer on a line that you would have LITTLE idea was suddenly dead.

I spend enough time with my head buried in the fridge everyday to know if the power is off to it.
My freezer on the other hand ,not so much. Hahaha

 

[Davegvg]

Heating elements often have an acceptable (minimal) ground leakage. Such an element may be used to evaporate condensation in this particular fridge. FWIW, many electric ranges exhibit this leakage from the heating elements, but because we don't put them on GFCI circuits, we never realize it.

Ok interesting - learn something new every day.

weird though - both units use defrost heating elements.

Perhaps this one is leakier than the the last?

 

[Copymutt]

Any domestic appliance that doesn't work on GFCI protected circuit is defective. It's either broken, or it's defective by design. Everything in commercial kitchens has been GFCI protected for years, and reach ins do not ever trip the GFCI, at least until the defrost circuit shorts out.

False statement.
A few devices/ appliances interface directly w/ plumbed water (ice maker) or wet locations (sauna). They will trip a GFCI by design of the GFCI. I’ve fought that battle w/ inspectors and won more than once.

 

[u2slow]

Ok interesting - lean something new every day.

weird though - both units use defrost heating elements.

Perhaps this one is leakier than the the last?

Not necessarily the defrost... but how the condensate is evaporated.

Why use a more costly system when you can build with the cheap stuff and put a disclaimer in the manual?

 

[Davegvg]

Not necessarily the defrost... but how the condensate is evaporated.

Why use a more costly system when you can build with the cheap stuff and put a disclaimer in the manual?

I imagine its got coils and wires running everywhere to deal with both.

I wonder if its an artifact of the unit having 2 doors, 2 drawer with three distinct temp zones? It would seem it has more to deal with.

The second drawer can be a freezer or fridge -

The last unit was a simple two door upright with the freezer on left and fridge on the right.



Or if its the result of some substandard design?

 

[Showkey]

Any domestic appliance that doesn't work on GFCI protected circuit is defective. It's either broken, or it's defective by design. Everything in commercial kitchens has been GFCI protected for years, and reach ins do not ever trip the GFCI, at least until the defrost circuit shorts out.

If you truly believe that ^^^^^^^^ your head might explode if you ever get involved in Nuisance tripping arc fault breakers.

Don’t over look that arc fault and GFCI breakers vary in quality. So there could be a tolerance stacking In some situations. Where each part or device passes the testing or certain specifications but the “total system” fails ( random nuisance tripping) at random times or situations.

 

[nadogail]

About 1990, 1991 I was teaching a class in basic electrical wiring; it was ten I learned that the allowable leakage current from a defrost heater was sufficient to trip a GFCI.

If you insist on installing a GFCI for a domestic refrigerator, in my opinion, you are assuming responsibility for the loss of the contents of the refrigerator due to a tripped GFCI. For this and many other reasons I carry an umbrella policy for liabilities

 

[wyliesdiesels]

many threads on this subject.

one big reason for a fridge or freezer to trip a GFCI is a broken defrost bulb

 

[wyliesdiesels]

For the reason you found... a tripped GFCI could ruin everything in the fridge freezer. I have a deep freeze standup freezer in my garage. Long story short... it is on a SINGLE PLUG NON-GFCI outlet well labelled. I lost the entire contents once... hundreds of dollars of cow parts, chicken parts.... etc. wasted.

I can't say the freezer is the thing that tripped the GFCI circuit though.

My kitchen fridge is also on a separate line from the Kitchen GFCI circuits. It happens to be on the same line as the dining room in the next room.

Sorry to the sparkies and the NEC codes. It makes NO sense to put a fridge or freezer on a line that you would have LITTLE idea was suddenly dead.

a GFCI with an audible alarm wouldve alerted you to the GFCI being tripped and possibly prevented the loss of meat

 

[Firebrick43]

Any domestic appliance that doesn't work on GFCI protected circuit is defective. It's either broken, or it's defective by design. Everything in commercial kitchens has been GFCI protected for years, and reach ins do not ever trip the GFCI, at least until the defrost circuit shorts out.

You keep speaking in absolutes, the only absolute, is there is no absolute. Multiple threads, you say the same thing, but there are lots of issues at steak!

 

[Theruse]

In building my new garage, our code required not only do I have to have a refrigerator on a dedicated 20 amp line but it must also be GFCI protected.

 

[Norcal]

In building my new garage, our code required not only do I have to have a refrigerator on a dedicated 20 amp line but it must also be GFCI protected.

It's the same in commercial kitchens, GFCI's have been around long enough that manufacturers have had plenty of time to make them work, but then the problem of AFCI's get added. But AFCI's are not required in garages or commercial kitchens.

 

[brownbagg]

because its behind the frig and you cant get to it, beside if it pops your food go bad and that worst than a gfi, also dont put your garage freezer on a gfi

 

[sparky 1971]

In building my new garage, our code required not only do I have to have a refrigerator on a dedicated 20 amp line but it must also be GFCI protected.

Where are you that a refrigerator is required to be on a dedicated circuit? Every receptacle in a garage requires GFCI protection, but I have never heard of a mandatory dedicated fridge circuit. Modern refrigerators only draw four or five amps.

I just took a look at mine. It's an LG French door with the pull out freezer. 5.2 amps.

 

[Steve W.]

By your definition its defective by design then.

Not only is it "defective by design", it is evidently NOT designed to be sold in the US of A.

We have not had 115-volt service for quite a few years.

.

 

[Theruse]

Sparky 1971. Because I live in one of the most over-regulated counties (often called the Republic of) in the US. As well, my garage required AFCI's as they don't distinguish garages from other structures. Don't even ask me the headaches I had with our water authority on their code requirements. I am envious of other GJ'ers who don't have such strict code requirements.

 

[sparky 1971]

Sparky 1971. Because I live in one of the most over-regulated counties (often called the Republic of) in the US. As well, my garage required AFCI's as they don't distinguish garages from other structures. Don't even ask me the headaches I had with our water authority on their code requirements. I am envious of other GJ'ers who don't have such strict code requirements.

That just ain't right. Do they actually have written amendments or is it the building department not knowing what is actually in the code and throwing their weight around?

 

[engineer2]

Any domestic appliance that doesn't work on GFCI protected circuit is defective. It's either broken, or it's defective by design. Everything in commercial kitchens has been GFCI protected for years, and reach ins do not ever trip the GFCI, at least until the defrost circuit shorts out.

In addition some GFCI's are more sensitive than others. I have a couple I'm going to replace because they trip on normal tool start ups.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sparky 1971. Because I live in one of the most over-regulated counties (often called the Republic of) in the US. As well, my garage required AFCI's as they don't distinguish garages from other structures. Don't even ask me the headaches I had with our water authority on their code requirements. I am envious of other GJ'ers who don't have such strict code requirements.

unless the AHJ has local WRITTEN amendments, they cant enforce any of that...

 

[Showkey]

Not only is it "defective by design", it is evidently NOT designed to be sold in the US of A.

We have not had 115-volt service for quite a few years.

.

Walk around a BIG BOX store ………100’s for products will still be labeled 115v. Especially products with motor or tools.

 

[sparky 1971]

Not only is it "defective by design", it is evidently NOT designed to be sold in the US of A.

We have not had 115-volt service for quite a few years.

.

Take a look at the name plate right inside the door of your refrigerator. It's probably not designed to be sold in the US of A either. I don't believe I have ever seen a name plate that didn't have 115 or 230 listed as the voltages.

 

[Steve W.]

Take a look at the name plate right inside the door of your refrigerator. It's probably not designed to be sold in the US of A either. I don't believe I have ever seen a name plate that didn't have 115 or 230 listed as the voltages.

You peeked in my fridge?

Maybe not, but I just did. You are correct, it says 115v. However, it's old enough that it may have been the standard when it was made. Just checked the age on the fridge by looking up the serial number, but it's a little confusing. It's a GE Hotpoint. The serial number starts with "LL", which means it was made in June of 2018, 2006, 1994, 1982, 1970 or 1954. Just checked with my wife to see when we got it (we got it used), she said it came from her mother, so is not sure when it was purchased 'new'. Based on known timelines, it would be either 1994 or 1982, with 1982 being more likely.

Did another quick Google search and found this:
"The US electric power network began at 110 volts. By the 1930s the voltage had crept up to 115. By the early 1950s at least 75 percent of the light bulbs sold in the USA were rated at 120 volts. As of 1984 the official standard US voltage was 120."

Since our refrigerator was likely made in 1982, it's quite possible that 115 volts was the standard, so my fridge's data plate just MIGHT be right.

.

 

[alfredeneuman]

It CAN be installed....just not in the kitchen, bathroom or garage.

 

[rlitman]

Not only is it "defective by design", it is evidently NOT designed to be sold in the US of A.

We have not had 115-volt service for quite a few years. ...

While the North American power grid is nominally 120/240V, NEMA outlet standards are 125V/250V and NEMA appliance/motor standards are 115V and 230V. So, if it said 120V, you'd actually be right in that it is not designed to be sold in the USA, but 115V is exactly correct.

Depending on the code year, you may either need GFCI protection in all outlets with 6' of a water source (that would include a fridge with an ice-maker and/or water dispenser), or all outlets in a residential kitchen. That's not to say that the UL listed appliance is in conflict with the NEC, but I'm not sure how you could legally plug it in.

My own fridge has a surge protection outlet behind it (one with an audible alarm), and is downstream of an exposed GFCI outlet (also with audible alarm). I can't say that I've had it trip yet, but I wouldn't be comfortable with a normal silent device for this use.

It CAN be installed....just not in the kitchen, bathroom or garage.

Or basement. And you cannot use the ice-maker. LOL.