why wouldnt a supplier sell to me?

[beatcad]

i was kinda hoping that other thread would have the answer, but it was about poor/stupid repairs/insatllments.

back in jan my furnace stopped working. i took me a few minues to figure out the ignitor was cracked.
i went to a HVAC store around the corner from my work and looked for one. when i couldnt find it i asked the guy at the counter.
he asked me what my account # was. i said i dont have an account, i just want to buy an ignitor. he said they only sell to licenced contractors.

i thought WOW! i was just about to give this guy $30 bucks, and he turned it down. i wonder what his manager would think. but i guess the manager/owner made that rule.

my question is why would a company do that? i mean they should have a sign out front that says so.

is it because they dont like to deal w/ the public? damn i wish i could do that. cause the public is rude or complains to much?

it cant be a liability thing.

maybe a tax thing?

 

[Techie1961]

If it is a regulated industry like HVAC, you have to have a licence to work on the equipment as well as purchase certain items. That was likely one of the particular items as it has to do with gas fitter's licencing.

 

[beatcad]

id never been in that place before. i just drive by it everyday.
i went to my local favorite hardware store(shoulda went there 1st) and they had one in stock. bought it and installed it no problem.

 

[Mike007]

i was kinda hoping that other thread would have the answer, but it was about poor/stupid repairs/insatllments.

Actually, this is your answer. Or at least part of it. There is liability in selling parts to people with unknown qualifications.

 

[skyking]

E-bay can also be a source. Many rules and Regs are pushed by the industry involved because they want the work to go to them.

 

[Techie1961]

id never been in that place before. i just drive by it everyday.
i went to my local favorite hardware store(shoulda went there 1st) and they had one in stock. bought it and installed it no problem.

Not uncommon. The more professional the place, the less likely it is that they will sell to someone walking in off the street and can't show a licence.

 

[alky]

thats crazy but interesting.
i always learn something on GJ.
thanks for posting

 

[beatcad]

if liability was an issue than how can auto parts stores sell brake parts to any numb-nuts walking in off the street?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

id never been in that place before. i just drive by it everyday.
i went to my local favorite hardware store(shoulda went there 1st) and they had one in stock. bought it and installed it no problem.

Probably was cheaper too!!

When I was installing my Lanair Used Oil fueled heater, I decided I needed the proper 6 inch barometric damper rather than the 7 inch one provided with the heater (Its supposed to fit 6 inch also, but would look like **** if I used it) I called around locally and found someone who told me they could order it, for some outrageous price till they found out I was not a contractor, then it was "we cannot help you, buy it thru a contractor". Some internet searching found what I was looking for, quite reasonable priced and delivered in a couple of days.

Charles

 

[Jsf721]

It is mostly bc you (Me too-Jonny Q public) asks too many questions and spends too little $. That is what I was told at a plumbing supply house. Told me to hire a professional when I went in to buy a part for a faucet.

i was kinda hoping that other thread would have the answer, but it was about poor/stupid repairs/insatllments.

back in jan my furnace stopped working. i took me a few minues to figure out the ignitor was cracked.
i went to a HVAC store around the corner from my work and looked for one. when i couldnt find it i asked the guy at the counter.
he asked me what my account # was. i said i dont have an account, i just want to buy an ignitor. he said they only sell to licenced contractors.

i thought WOW! i was just about to give this guy $30 bucks, and he turned it down. i wonder what his manager would think. but i guess the manager/owner made that rule.

my question is why would a company do that? i mean they should have a sign out front that says so.

is it because they dont like to deal w/ the public? damn i wish i could do that. cause the public is rude or complains to much?

it cant be a liability thing.

maybe a tax thing?

 

[Jagmandave]

Grainger will sell to you, just tell them your company name and that you want to pay cash....they just need a name on the ticket - I usually just make one up.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Grainger has a employee account for the employees of the company I work for. I just tell them I'm a *** employee and they find the special account number and I get the same discount on that item that my company would. They are now tracking employee names and emp numbers too, under that account, but none of it is verified. They have seen me in there in uniform however, they know who I am.

Charles

 

[Techie1961]

In Ontario Canada, we have a governing body called the TSSA (Technical Standards and Safety Authority). This group regulates the gas fitters, oil fitters, elevators, pressure vessels, etc. According to regulations, which are enforced by pretty serious fines, you aren't even allowed to put a screwdriver to a piece of equipment that falls under their purview unless you hold a valid licence.

That means that you aren't allowed to even open an electrical panel that has a screw on the front. As an example, a natural gas dryer that you might find in a laundromat requires that you have a gas licence just to change a shaft bearing or belt.

 

[Zeke]

I'm going through this HVAC thing right now. I've been licensed as a general since '81. Most supply houses give me any discount available for a cash account as a general. Of course the larger credit accounts get better prices, I don't mind unless I'm buying a shitload. Then I place it for bid.

But the standards are far from standard. 2 of the 3 local HVAC houses will sell me anything but refrigerant or a complete unit be a it furnace or whatever. The 3rd won't even let me up to the counter.

The electrical supplys seems to sell to anyone and anything. The plumbing supply houses around here are the worst. There are about 20, so you can figure some will sell to anyone and some to some and some to none but their accounts. Fine with me, I know where to go with that.

Back when I was getting into windows and doors I had a millwork supply that didn't sell to retail. That is until said retail walked in with money and knew what they wanted. I had bid a job using this supply and the customer went over and bought the fancy doors themselves. That was the day I learned it didn't matter to me who I bought from that they were mostly all whores anyway.

So these days I walk in anywhere and plop open my binder with my license staring back out of the clear plastic pocket and start going over my list. If I hear anything about accounts or specialty contractors I just flip the page showing the next closest supply address and leave. In most cases the stuff is available at the HD or Lowes. So if they want to lock up the cash register, fine with me. Someone wants the money.

 

[APEowner]

In some states the sales tax situation is such that it makes more sense to only sell to contractors who have their resale tax exempt form on file. The few sales that they loose to end users are more than made up for by not having to track sales taxes.

That policy can also build some customer loyalty with the contractors. If they know that their vendor isn't going to be selling to homeowners (and eliminating the contractors markup) they may be more likely to stick with one vendor and not price shop around.

 

[slowzuki]

The local HVAC supplier here in Canada will sell to me without an account because I don't ask questions, just walk in and tell them the part number. Big sign on the door no sales to the public but they told me its the pita dealing with home handymen.

All the electrical supply shops and plumbing shops sell to the public here but if you ask handyman questions you will get the minimum discount. Go in knowing exactly what you need and act confident usually get 20-45% off their list.

Re Ontario, I thought it was one of the provinces homeowners can still do their own wiring? Here in NB you aren't supposed to touch anything but most electricians will let you pull your own wire and make your own connections, they basically come and inspect.

 

[A_Pmech]

You just have to learn how to play the system.

As an example, I needed a service manual for a large International tractor. The local International dealers refused to sell one to "the competition." One even cussed me before hanging up the phone.

Solution: I called an International dealer 500 miles away and said I needed a service manual. They started out with the same line of **** as the other places. So, I said: "I'm 500 miles away. There's no chance you'll ever see this tractor or my customer. Do you want my $125 or not?"

I had the manual in my hands two days later.

 

[beatcad]

Ahhh...the OP is in America's Hat.

I'm in northern Virginia USA.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I am in the laundromat biz. Local plumbing supply store has the same policy about not dealing with the public. I just tell them I own the stores and they have no problem accommodating. I think part of the issue is the business model. They want to create a streamlined process for the pros. If Johnny's oil company spends 10k a month with said supply house they shouldn't have to wait for Jim next door to explain his poorly designed sketch with mis named parts. Then have Jim come back and make a return once he realizes he needed an oil tank vs a piece of PVC pipe. I highly doubt there is any regulation involved. I think it's more along the lines of catering.

The other part of the business model is a no pos experience. Just give the account I'd for billing and be on your way. I now have an account number I reference and walk out the door. I couldn't pay cash or credit if I wanted. I need to wait for my invoice and pay by card at that point. This is to eliminate poor Jim fumbling for the few dollars in cash he has, putting the balance on a card, having the card declined, and re trying another card.

This is just my explanation and theory. Not sure if I agree cutting out the homeowner customer, but if they are making enough money the owner can do whatever they want.

 

[danski0224]

There are HVAC parts suppliers that cater to the general public. One sells at retail, plus a little more, for all the homeowners that think they are saving a buck by buying it themselves. I recently saw a small parts place open up in a strip mall storefront.

There are *lots* of places online that have the same pricing structure. Full retail and then some

When I am at a supplier, it is usually a homeowner that has the counter people ******* on the phone for "free diagnostics" for the longest time, with the translation from "thingie" to "ignitor" taking the longest time . Yes, some contractors do that too.

In the USA, at least for residential equipment, stuff with refrigerant falls under regulations. Stuff like ignitors, probably not. The Orange Box used to have a replacement ignitor on the shelves, but I bet their installed sales people put a stop to that.

Sometimes a pro can spot other problem areas that are cause for concern while on a service call that someone else may miss.

 

[nehog]

There is a possible second reason to not sell to the public, and that' sales tax. They may not be setup to handle sales tax to end consumers.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

if liability was an issue than how can auto parts stores sell brake parts to any numb-nuts walking in off the street?

thats a very good point..........there just being stupid, why not sell you parts?
you can buy any of them on ebay anyway. As long as you realize there is no returns, equipment i can see them not selling to you. because of the warranty.

you should try bringing donuts, i know a guy who buys from the local hvac supply house, he doesn't have a license, he says he brings donuts every time he goes in there. There happy to see him, what license? where the donuts.

what i hate is when they won't even sell to contractors, years ago i was looking for a certain bryant furnace for a customer so i called a local supply house that sells them, the conversation went something like this.........."I'm looking for this model bryant furnace (the guy knows who i'am), he says we have one in stock, but i can't sell it to you, i say what?, i say you know we have a account with you and we have a mech HVAC license, he says yes but you are not a bryant dealer.........i said wtf, they don't have anything special there they must not want to sell any furnaces, he agrees but he said bryant won't let him sell it to me"............so i talked the customer into another brand.........lennox is another one that they think they have something special (they don't) and you can't buy there stuff without being a lennox dealer........I'm surprised there still in business.

 

[danski0224]

American Standard also segregates their line between "dealers" and the rest.

Of course, "dealer" really means "sells $**,***" in boxes a month, nothing about quality of installation.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Grainger has a employee account for the employees of the company I work for. I just tell them I'm a *** employee and they find the special account number and I get the same discount on that item that my company would. They are now tracking employee names and emp numbers too, under that account, but none of it is verified. They have seen me in there in uniform however, they know who I am.

Charles

I used to do that for personal purchases, too. Now Grainger will sell me stuff, but they tell me they can no longer give me the school system's discount rate. They actually have a separate account for employees to purchase for cash under their employer's name...

Tommy

 

[Mike007]

Read this: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220186

 

[brewchief]

what i hate is when they won't even sell to contractors, years ago i was looking for a certain bryant furnace for a customer so i called a local supply house that sells them, the conversation went something like this.........."I'm looking for this model bryant furnace (the guy knows who i'am), he says we have one in stock, but i can't sell it to you, i say what?, i say you know we have a account with you and we have a mech HVAC license, he says yes but you are not a bryant dealer.........i said wtf, they don't have anything special there they must not want to sell any furnaces, he agrees but he said bryant won't let him sell it to me"............so i talked the customer into another brand.........lennox is another one that they think they have something special (they don't) and you can't buy there stuff without being a lennox dealer........I'm surprised there still in business.

To be dealer for certain brands you must sell X number per year and attend classes on a regular basis.

I can't buy a Bryant either, even when we do a warranty replacement we can't get a Bryant, we get handed a Payne instead.

Lennox sends out questionnaires on a percentage of installs, too many bad reports and you can lose your dealer status.

 

[raddksn]

I'm going through this HVAC thing right now. I've been licensed as a general since '81. Most supply houses give me any discount available for a cash account as a general. Of course the larger credit accounts get better prices, I don't mind unless I'm buying a shitload. Then I place it for bid.

But the standards are far from standard. 2 of the 3 local HVAC houses will sell me anything but refrigerant or a complete unit be a it furnace or whatever. The 3rd won't even let me up to the counter.

The electrical supplys seems to sell to anyone and anything. The plumbing supply houses around here are the worst. There are about 20, so you can figure some will sell to anyone and some to some and some to none but their accounts. Fine with me, I know where to go with that.

Back when I was getting into windows and doors I had a millwork supply that didn't sell to retail. That is until said retail walked in with money and knew what they wanted. I had bid a job using this supply and the customer went over and bought the fancy doors themselves. That was the day I learned it didn't matter to me who I bought from that they were mostly all whores anyway.

So these days I walk in anywhere and plop open my binder with my license staring back out of the clear plastic pocket and start going over my list. If I hear anything about accounts or specialty contractors I just flip the page showing the next closest supply address and leave. In most cases the stuff is available at the HD or Lowes. So if they want to lock up the cash register, fine with me. Someone wants the money.

I like your style, simple direct and to the point!

 

[jimp]

When all of your customers are pros, why would you take work from them and maybe piss them off for a single sale? (just my opinion).

 

[mrobins297aaa]

To be dealer for certain brands you must sell X number per year and attend classes on a regular basis.

I can't buy a Bryant either, even when we do a warranty replacement we can't get a Bryant, we get handed a Payne instead.

Lennox sends out questionnaires on a percentage of installs, too many bad reports and you can lose your dealer status.

yeah we never did enough residential work to qualify for that. pretty soon they'll all be the same except for the name plate.
I think ICP owns a boat load of those brands now and there more and more a like. I think they own comfortmaker, arcoaire, temp star bryant carrier payne and god knows who else.............i was amazed when which i switched out my 11 year old bryant with a bad heat exchanger with a comfortmaker and I didn't even have to cut a pc of gas pipe, ductwork or electricial.

 

[brewchief]

yeah we never did enough residential work to qualify for that. pretty soon they'll all be the same except for the name plate.
I think ICP owns a boat load of those brands now and there more and more a like. I think they own comfortmaker, arcoaire, temp star bryant carrier payne and god knows who else.............i was amazed when which i switched out my 11 year old bryant with a bad heat exchanger with a comfortmaker and I didn't even have to cut a pc of gas pipe, ductwork or electricial.

I think the ICP version is better then the Carrier and Bryant version.

FWIW it seems like there is at least some standardization in cabinet sizes among manufacturers in recent years.

 

[beatcad]

thanks for the link to the other thread(i swear i did search 1st).

so, the long & complicated answer is...
-DIYers asks to many questions/wastes time(time =$)
-DIYers spend to little(dime holding up a dollar)
-theyre worried a part or product improperly used/installed may come back on them
-theyde rather sell the parts to a pro that can make $ off the part and labor.

the short and dirty answer is...
-they're snobs.

 

[Zeke]

The sales tax theory doesn't always fly here in CA. I'm allowed to purchase materials from lumber and sundries to specific equipment and pay the tax at the point of sale. What this does is allows me to bundle the materials and labor, plus any P & O into a fixed price contract.

Now if I were building you an addition, you would prefer this and so would I as I don't have to figure out the tax. By figuring I mean I have to show I didn't mark up any materials for profit. I'd rather just pay the tax beforehand.

The other thing is on some jobs you don't need to know what I paid for materials so it's a flat price. My plumber does both. On contract jobs he places a price on the whole job. On repairs he lists parts as they come off the truck and taxes them.

He works too hard at this paperwork but he doesn't have a lot of choice due to the myriad of sales tax laws.

The point is would you want me to list every 2 x4 and tax it? And how do I tax shop supplies like a case of nails? I can't use a whole case on every job so some move to the next job. Same would be true for boxes of flex duct.

Supply houses have to be set up to collect tax or sale as resale.

 

[mygarageone]

E-bay can also be a source. Many rules and Regs are pushed by the industry involved because they want the work to go to them.

Well maybe but have you ever seen the results of someone who works on equipment and doesn't know what here doing ? We'll follow a professional around some time. You will learn.

 

[buddyboy]

others have said it.

Sales Tax

Sales Tax

Sales Tax

some states the requirments are insane.

it's easier to keep track of 10,000 customers vendor ID's than to collect $1.00 in sales tax.