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Why you shouldn't use cheap Torx bits...

Jason280

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Started working on an '81 Jeep CJ7 project I picked up recently, and first order of business was pulling the interior (seats and carpet). Although the CJ's don't use nearly the number of Torx bolts as newer models, it does use them for the seat belts. Pulled the rear bench, and started removing the rear lap belts. Jeep has a decent amount of rust, so all of the bolts were good and snug. I had picked up some extended Torx bits from the pawn shop, so decided to give the T50 a shot...can't say I had a lot of success!






 
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tdkkart

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What'll really piss in your Wheaties is when you realize that hardened broken end is now stuck fast in that bolt head.
 

Bill Bowman

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Besides it being a 31 year old rusty vehicle, the fasteners for seat belts/harness, are usually installed at the factory with some type of loctite. My experience has been to heat them up a bit first. Not a fair assessment of the bit being bogus IMO.
 
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Jason280

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Not a fair assessment of the bit being bogus IMO.

Carlyle/Napa bit removed it without breaking a sweat, previous bit broke as soon as it was torqued with any authority.
 

AutoTeck84

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Don't know why torx is even used with anything other than the lowest of torqued screws. I have sheared off quality brand torx bits and stripped a few regular and reverse torx. They shouldn't be used in automotive for anymore than plastic interior pieces. The design is just flawed. 12 point bolts are ok, torx *****
 
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Jason280

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I don't know, I'd rather deal with a torx bolt over an allen head bolt...
 

jerseykat1

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I've broken SO torx bits similarly.. It's just a bad idea to have torx bolts period.

Use your cut of wheel and cut that head into the shape of hex than find a socket that you can beat on.. But First try beating a twist socket on there (Rounded bolt remover)

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

Jarhead0408

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Wow, that thing sure broke cleanly! I don't think I could have caused it to do that if I tried a thousand times.
 
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Jason280

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No need, the broken piece came out easily with a magnet...then promptly removed the torx bolt with a Carlyle/NAPA T50 bit.
 

alpaca

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yep

I have some matco impact torx worse than that and pretty much all my craftsman usa ones are twisted it's a stupid design unless its for plastic or something

Anyone have any 1/4" drive torx sockets that have actually held up?
 
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Jason280

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I agree. Torx should be use for low impact stuff like headlighrs, etc. Other then that, they stink.

You would absolutely hate dealing with a Jeep YJ, Torx bolts are everywhere. Worst ones are on the side of the windshield frame, they are an absolute PITA. Not only does this area normally get rusty, but there is a nut on the back where Chrysler used some physics-denying form of Loctite. Its hard enough to even get some kind of fastener on the nut, and even more aggravating to keep the Torx bit seated while you sloooooooowly unscrew everything.
 

Gotmayhem

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yep

I have some matco impact torx worse than that and pretty much all my craftsman usa ones are twisted it's a stupid design unless its for plastic or something

Anyone have any 1/4" drive torx sockets that have actually held up?
I work on European autos nearly exclusively so my Torx see daily use. For the last few years I've used the MAC shallow/regular/deep sets that I believe were made by VIM. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. To date I have yet to shear one, though I've chipped some teeth off. Every 6 months or so I turn in the most worn ones in to my dealer for fresh ones. I have a mixed back-up set of older USA MAC and Snap-on that are certainly nicer and twist less but I keep grabbing my cheaper sets. At the end of the day no Torx bit lasts forever.
 

PoorOwner

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When I have a internal torx or hex bolt that seems like it will have some difficulty I buy snap on gold HD or S2 steel first.. trying cheap stuff first risk rounding the drain bolt creating a pita

Of course yours seems easy to weld a nut on it, the heat will also help loosen Loctite or what not
 

SteadyC

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You could try vise grips to crack the fastener loose. Then finish off with the bit. An old carb trick I used on the phillips head fasteners.
 

thefoobag

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I work on European autos nearly exclusively so my Torx see daily use. For the last few years I've used the MAC shallow/regular/deep sets that I believe were made by VIM. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. To date I have yet to shear one, though I've chipped some teeth off. Every 6 months or so I turn in the most worn ones in to my dealer for fresh ones. I have a mixed back-up set of older USA MAC and Snap-on that are certainly nicer and twist less but I keep grabbing my cheaper sets. At the end of the day no Torx bit lasts forever.

+1 on the mac shallow torx, best ones I've used yet
 
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Jason280

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how much penetrating oil did you put on that screw before you attempted to remove it?

None, as there was no way to apply any to the shaft of the bolt. The top portion was blocked by the interior carpet, the underside was covered by another bracket.
You could try vise grips to crack the fastener loose.

Bolt was easily removed with a NAPA branded Carlyle T50 bit.
 

DirtyWeRX

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I dont mind torx. I regularly work on Saabs. They have their purpose and if youre straight on with the bit, they bite hard. Buuuut, it looks like you were straight with the bit and it did what its supposed to. Id rather the tool break rather than strip out the head.
 

stihlntime

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I work with torx everyday and have for several years, I use Wiha. They have been extremely durable. One set to run from is the Craftsman 42 PC set they are currently promoting. Junk,Junk,Junk my kids bought me one, the bits are soft and will twist off with minimal effort and the ratchet is the worst I've ever had my hands on.
 

Dave455

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I reckon the Torx design is basically sound. It's superb with aerospace fasteners.

The problems arise when manufacturers use a relatively large screw, with a relatively small Torx recess, generally on those 'button head' screws like the one shown.

These things crop up everywhere and are always a pain. In a way, you're lucky the bit broke. Usually now, the screw is made of cheap monkey metal and the recess gets churned up!

Decent bits, in my experience, are Snap On, Stahlwille, Hazet, and KoKen, but there are others!

Attack the thing with a decent bit first! If the screw recess starts to go, then use the cheapest bit you can find and a blob of weld! Then replace the screw with something decent! Where I find these a lot (brake discs / rotors) I keep boxes of decent replacement screws on hand!

Beta tools offer an almost unique 10 mm hex bit system with a 1/2 inch drive bit holder and 10 mm hex bits. The advantage of this is you can get the bits in the larger sizes for brake discs such as T55, but the bits are very reasonably priced so you can afford to weld one in if you need to!

If you're on a budget, this is cheaper option than the usual Torx bits, each with their own holder! The bits seem decent too!
 
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firworks

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I broke a HF torx bit in the same way adjusting the valve lash on my lawnmower. There was next to no force on it even and it broke. I've since replaced them with a VIM Torx master set. These ones show no signs of breaking or twisting yet.
 

shoggoth80

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I've deformed Torx bits, but haven't sheared any off yet. Of all the fastener types, Torx has a special place of hatred in my heart.
 

R. Johnson

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Where torx fasteners shine is the smaller stuff, T5-20. Much better feel than small philips screws.
 

MikeF2316

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Must be an AMC thing. My introduction to torx came back when I was in university, back in the early '80s. A friend with a Gremlin needed a new seatbelt, couldn't afford new from the dealer. So off to the junkyard we went, but I'd never even heard of torx, let alone have a Torx bit. I took one look at that bolt, and thought WTF! We left empty handed that day. If I remember correctly, he bought the bit from Craftsman/Sears, and it worked correctly on our next trip.
 

Professur

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Things like this are when I love my welder the most. Weld a nice big hex shaped nut to the top and fill that beech with weld wire .... all your troubles go away. As often as not, I'll do that before even trying with the torx.
 
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Jason280

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Buuuut, it looks like you were straight with the bit and it did what its supposed to. Id rather the tool break rather than strip out the head.

No question about it, I would rather the bit break than the other way around.
 

abvw

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The length of the bit is too long for the application (especially T50 with loctite). A shorter bit is less likely to flex, twist and shear off like that.

Worst case scenario, drill the bolt out and clean it up with a rethreader, or buy a fancy induction heater like the Mini-Ductor.

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fordnut85

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Sep 6, 2012
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There are some things that you just can't go cheap on and torx bits are at the top of that list. Snap on makes about the best I have found. A must have for the T-55 (i think) caliper bolts on the rear of late model chevy trucks.
 
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Jason280

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The length of the bit is too long for the application (especially T50 with loctite). A shorter bit is less likely to flex, twist and shear off like that.

I don't think the length of the bit had anything to do with this particular failure. If you notice in the picture, there is no evidence of twisting or fatigue in the hex shaft. The only twisting you see is in the "torx" portion at the end of the bit. In fact, you can clearly see that the hex shaft did exactly what it was engineered to do in transmitting 100% of the available torque to the fastener....and I don't believe it would have mattered if it was 1" or 4" long.
 

WhiskeyRanger

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You would absolutely hate dealing with a Jeep YJ, Torx bolts are everywhere. Worst ones are on the side of the windshield frame, they are an absolute PITA. Not only does this area normally get rusty, but there is a nut on the back where Chrysler used some physics-denying form of Loctite. Its hard enough to even get some kind of fastener on the nut, and even more aggravating to keep the Torx bit seated while you sloooooooowly unscrew everything.

I broke two torx bits removing the seats from my YJ. It was a 93 and only about 3 years old the bits were craftsman so I was able to run around the block to the Sears Hardware and swap them out.
 

platform389

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I've deformed Torx bits, but haven't sheared any off yet. Of all the fastener types, Torx has a special place of hatred in my heart.

Try a T20 down deep down in a hole requiring a long 1/4 extension to reach. Only problem is an insect had built a nice nest in there. Clearing that required an awl and air. The actual Torx fitting was filled in with the substance the bug used for construction. Required half a can of PB Blaster to finally be able to get the bit to bite. A 10 minute job turned into an hour.

If Torx is so great, why did they introduce Torx Plus?
torx_vs_torxplus.jpg
 

Man Cave

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Harley Davidson uses Torx on brake discs, calipers and a lot of places. I'm ok with them but haven't had one I couldn't get out. On the OP picture, I would weld a nut on that rusty fastener instead of trying a different bit.
 
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Jason280

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A 10 minute job turned into an hour.

Haha, that's been the story of my life with this CJ project so far. Removing the seats and carpet should have taken, at most, 15-20 minutes...except the center console had 4 rusted out phillips head machine screws. I was able to get one out with a pair of vice grips from underneath, but the other three had to be drilled. Next up was swapping out a damaged ignition switch assembly on the column. Should have been a 45 minute job, turned into a 3 hour ordeal because I'm a *****. No matter what I did, even with the steering wheel completely off and everything out of the way, I could not get the key assembly out of the column housing. Eventually pulled the column, a job in itself, and finally figured it out.

At this rate, the CJ just be finished in 12 years.
 
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