Widening alloy wheels

[FastKat]

I have a two 19" aluminum wheels that I want to widen. My plan is to start with two wheels, cut the back off of wheel #1, cut the front off of wheel #2, and then weld #1 and #2 together. Of course I'd leave extra stock on each wheel to get an extra 1.5" of wheel width.

I don't know where I would find someone to cut this on a lathe, or where I would index the cut (rim face, hub mounting surface, etc) so I thought maybe I could lay the wheels flat on a mill table and have them cut on a mill. After that, I'd line them up on a welding table, bolt them down, and have them welded.

Any constructive thoughts here?

There are companies that do this with great results but I kind of want to try it myself.

 

[04chase]

eric vaughn here in so cal is who ive had do this , he basically buys half hoops , cuts the wheel in half (still keeping the center section and front outer lip , then welds on the inner hoop adding what ever width your wanting. it usually lightens the wheel as well as make it truer . ive had wheels take almost nothing when balancing , depending on how bad the tire is. may give him a call on process . he has done it for years and ive had multiple wheels done by him with great success. The one thing you will have to avoid is any kind of heating after being widened like powdercoating. it can fatigue and cause issues.

 

[creativecars]

I have a two 19" aluminum wheels that I want to widen. My plan is to start with two wheels, cut the back off of wheel #1, cut the front off of wheel #2, and then weld #1 and #2 together. Of course I'd leave extra stock on each wheel to get an extra 1.5" of wheel width.

I don't know where I would find someone to cut this on a lathe, or where I would index the cut (rim face, hub mounting surface, etc) so I thought maybe I could lay the wheels flat on a mill table and have them cut on a mill. After that, I'd line them up on a welding table, bolt them down, and have them welded.

Any constructive thoughts here?

There are companies that do this with great results but I kind of want to try it myself.

I though about doing this 20 years ago to make some big and skinnies by cutting them on a lathe on the back side and changing the pieces to make a real wide pair and a real narrow pair. No company around here would touch such an idea... too much liability. Finding a lathe that will spin 19" wheels is not easy, the finding someone who can and will weld them is not easy either. Some of the castings are not that great either.

 

[FastKat]

Thanks for the info guys.

I have had wheels powder coated with no ill effects - it's very popular. Are you suggesting the weld can't take the heat? I think it's only around 350-400 degrees! I will want them refinished after widening and I was planning on a powder coating process.

 

[rsanter]

There was a place that used to take the factory fox body mustang wheels and widen them like you are saying.
How about you look in the mustang magazines or ask on some late model mustang forums.

They cut them on a lathe and they make a step in each side so when they go together they index true. Then they weld them.
That is so much aluminum I would say you would have to pre heat them in an oven to get the whole wheel up to tempature. Then you can TIG them without having to fight it

Bob

 

[shawnspeed]

The part about the powder coat would only apply to the spun wheel section that was welded to a cast wheel....the spun section will anneal itself at 350-400 degree's...cast wheel to cast wheel you should hace no problems...if you have a Bridgeport or similar mill with a rotary table , you can cut the wheels with a slitting saw...no lathe required. I had a customer that would bring in motorcycle wheels for me to weld , and that is how he cut them...he also built a fixture to get the barrel halves lined back up & clamped for welding...Shawn

 

[cajunfirehawk]

Let a pro do it, IMHO
http://www.weldcraftwheels.com/
http://www.ericvaughnmachine.com/
http://www.stocktonwheel.com/powder_coat.html
http://www.stocktonwheel.com/

 

[FastKat]

Yea maybe. It looks like some of those guys make stepped cuts so the wheels lock together prior to welding. That is far more advanced than what I was planning.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Most wheels these days are cast aluminum. Some high end ones may be forged.

I am not an expert, but welding cast aluminum doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

[Rickenbackerman]

I had weldcraft do two for me. A+

 

[Zeke]

FastKat it would help if your location was posted. As mentioned, there a more than a few in CA that do this. I'm sure shipping wouldn't be too bad.

In the Porsche world many are using original Fuchs centers welded into Corvette barrels. I believe that would be forged welded to spun, but maybe cast. I have a spare Corvette rim and I can't tell. Anyway, it's 2 different processed joined so it's done.

Jack Olsen on this forum would know.

 

[bear40]

Here's narrowing, somewhat similar technique to widening.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/tech-narrowing-aluminum-5-spokes.216215/#post-2299986

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Look up Stockton Wheels, I think they used to do rms like that/

 

[FastKat]

Thanks for the continued input guys.

Most wheels these days are cast aluminum. Some high end ones may be forged.

I am not an expert, but welding cast aluminum doesn't sound like a good idea.

I've had cast stuff welded and it turned out well. I think it is generally more difficult but still doable. I understand the casting method and alloy both play a pretty important role in how a casting welds.

FastKat it would help if your location was posted. As mentioned, there a more than a few in CA that do this. I'm sure shipping wouldn't be too bad.

In the Porsche world many are using original Fuchs centers welded into Corvette barrels. I believe that would be forged welded to spun, but maybe cast. I have a spare Corvette rim and I can't tell. Anyway, it's 2 different processed joined so it's done.

Jack Olsen on this forum would know.

I am located in Northern Virginia. CA is a long way to ship a couple wheels... though it seems there are quite a few reputable places over there. Something closer would be great. I really like how that Eric Vaughn guy step cuts the wheel halves.

 

[kabinenroller]

A number of years ago we took a set of 14X7 Minilite wheels and narrowed the fronts to 6" and converted the rears to 15X7. The wheels were machined with a step in the hoop so they plugged together. The tolerance was so close that one part had to be frozen and the other part heated for them to plug together. I then had the wheels welded by a professional certified welder.
I had the wheels balanced on a digital machine without tires mounted, I was surprised that they were very close to being in balance and needed minimum weights installed.

 

[zkling]

All you really need is access or someone with a large enough lathe or VTL. Alignment is critical.

Used to work at a place that had VTL's and dabbers, more than a handful of wheels found their way through the shop in the evening.

 

[glue4u]

I've done this several times and the wheels have always turned out to be more accurate than the originals I started with. Not as difficult as everyone thinks. Leave yourself some additional material on your two halves and rough cut them with a plasma. Set a height gauge or surface gauge to scribe your line on each half where the two will mate. I use an 80grit sanding disc on the 4.5" dewalt grinder to come down close to the scribe lines. You can get this as accurate as you want by using an indicator on the height gauge and a file to bring down high areas. Once satisfied, mate the two halves and bolt/clamp to the welding table. Verify your measurements and adjust where needed. With it all bolted/clamped to the table, preheat with torch. Recheck all measurements again, and begin tack welding. My experience with welding aluminum wheels is that you want to have good quality wheels. Bad quality wheels will still be bad quality wheels when you are finished. A much easier and less time consuming wheel mod is to cut centers out and fit to wider wheel and of course, usually can only be done with steel wheels.

 

[FastKat]

Wow, so you cut them by hand with an angle grinder and they turned out well? That is interesting.

Also, did you weld the joint from both sides of the wheel? All the way around?

 

[3 Gun Shooter]

Thanks for the info guys.

I have had wheels powder coated with no ill effects - it's very popular. Are you suggesting the weld can't take the heat? I think it's only around 350-400 degrees! I will want them refinished after widening and I was planning on a powder coating process.

There are a lot of aluminum alloys you can not weld, especially in cast aluminum. Many have very high zinc content like 10-12% you can't weld them.

But you can heat them to powder coat them no problem.

 

[MikeF2316]

There's Kosman Specialities that are well known for doing this in the motorcycle world. I don't know if they'd do a car wheel.

And I wouldn't trust anything aluminum I welded until I practiced 3 or 4 times. No way I'd use the first wheel I did.

 

[Richard D]

Wow, so you cut them by hand with an angle grinder and they turned out well? That is interesting.

Also, did you weld the joint from both sides of the wheel? All the way around?

If you didn't weld all the way around, it wouldn't hold air.

 

[glue4u]

I have welded both sides all the way around and I have welded all the way around the side that is seen after it has a tire on it and just stich welded the inside. When I finish welding, I wire wheel the inside and fillet with a bead of silicone to make sure I won't have an air leak. The key is taking your time and as others have said, start with GOOD wheels.
The first time I did this, I took a junk alum wheel and took a section out and welded it back together just to see what the results would be.

 

[Farrier]

This is a job for professionals if these wheels are on a vehicle that's operated over the road.

 

[zkling]

This is a job for professionals if these wheels are on a vehicle that's operated over the road.

Just remember though; professional just means they get paid to do the work, doesn't necessarily mean they know what they are doing.

 

[Richard D]

Just remember though; professional just means they get paid to do the work, doesn't necessarily mean they know what they are doing.

Yep. My dad hired a guy that gets paid to weld and it was just terrible. Took me a couple weeks to cut out his **** and do it right, and I'm no "pro" by any means. I still see his truck driving around the island with "I can fix anything" printed on the side. My helpers and I still laugh when we **** something up and say, "Damn, that's Roy style"!

 

[Farrier]

Just remember though; professional just means they get paid to do the work, doesn't necessarily mean they know what they are doing.

The big difference here is the the *paid guy* is the one who built them and would ultimately be responsible in a court of law if wheel failure occurred.

 

[FastKat]

Thanks for the info guys. I am still undecided. My stock wheels are on the heavy side but I think they help give the car a muscular look. I am going to start by doing some research and measure the run out on all 4 stock wheels. That should give me an idea on the tolerance I need to hit. I also need to,measure the diameter of the barrel where I will be cutting and rejoining. After that I'll see if my bro is comfortable welding the wheels.

Also, trying this on a set of junk wheels is good advice!

 

[zkling]

The big difference here is the the *paid guy* is the one who built them and would ultimately be responsible in a court of law if wheel failure occurred.

At the same time, no ammount of money can bring someone back from the dead.

 

[sqznby]

This is a job for professionals if these wheels are on a vehicle that's operated over the road.

I agree

The "professional" who would take on a job like this should have the tools necessary to do this job and do the job right.

I would only offer my wheels to a reputable company who has done this with proof, like weldcraft.
I live in NC and would not hesitate to send them my wheels knowing they would do it and do it right.