Wierd Load Center wiring - can you do that?

[walrus]

I agree that the way the two neutral buss's are tied together is a little crude, but apparently not really "wrong".

Nothing crude about it, its from the factory and you'll see it like that in other panels.

So, it sounds like the splice in the ell may or may not be ok, depending on which code section applies?
here is a pic of the conduit/ell in which the splice exists today. It is inside the large one on the left.

I'd never pass it, a PVC lb is not made to splice wires in, replace the lb with a correctly sized pvc box and everything is cool.

I have already asked that the replacement wiring be of one continuous run from main panel to sub panel, with no splice, but maybe it is legal and acceptable to do so? It gives them a way to go from Romex to THHN at the point where they go from exposed to inside a conduit.

Nothing wrong with a splice if done correctly, this one isn't. Like to see a picture with the cover off the lb

 

[Steevo]

Nothing wrong with a splice if done correctly, this one isn't. Like to see a picture with the cover off the lb

It is just wire nuts on the splices, and a crimped connector for the grounds.

I spoke with the electrician this morning, and he's going to replace the entire run with romex adequate for 100A service, eliminating the splice. . . .

Of course, he's claiming he doesn't recall the conversation about me wanting 100A service in the first place, so he wants two hours labor and the cost of the wire.

 

[walrus]

I spoke with the electrician this morning, and he's going to replace the entire run with romex adequate for 100A service, eliminating the splice. . . .
.

You can't run romex underground in a pipe

 

[oleguy]

next time you might want to put it all in writing!!!

 

[Aceman]

I spoke with the electrician this morning, and he's going to replace the entire run with romex adequate for 100A service, eliminating the splice. . . .

I don't know if you misunderstood him or he actually said he was going to use Romex. If he's actually planning to run Romex, he has absolutely no idea what he's doing. Splicing the #6 to #3 in a pvc LB was the first sign....

I'd definitely hire a different electrician next time.

 

[Steevo]

next time you might want to put it all in writing!!!

Now THAT is the smartest thing I have heard so far!

I have learned that in spades on this project.
1. Detailed blueprints with everything clearly shown and all measurements accurate.
2. Review said blueprints with each sub, even though that is the contractor's job.
3. Have a review with each sub at the start of their piece of teh project to clarify the details.
4. Never try to do this from another state.

 

[Steevo]

I don't know if you misunderstood him or he actually said he was going to use Romex. If he's actually planning to run Romex, he has absolutely no idea what he's doing. Splicing the #6 to #3 in a pvc LB was the first sign....

I'd definitely hire a different electrician next time.

He never spliced #6 to #3,it is all #6. Romex through the main garage attic space to the ell, then THHN in the conduit.

So, he did that right, then. Just the wrong gauge wire.

 

[Steevo]

You can't run romex underground in a pipe

Why is that? It seems like it would just be extra protection that way.

 

[JBurgess]

He never spliced #6 to #3,it is all #6. Romex through the main garage attic space to the ell, then THHN in the conduit.

So, he did that right, then. Just the wrong gauge wire.

Depends on the conduit size. For your #6 wire and if that elbow is made by cantex, if it’s 1-1/4 conduit no, if it’s 1-1/2 or larger yes.

It may be to code, but I would hate working on it in the future.

He does need to support the conduit within 3’ of the ell.

Underground in a conduit is considered a wet location. Romex is not listed for wet locations. THHN is not listed for wet either, but most THHN is also listed as THWN which is.

 

[swaterbenny]

Originally Posted by walrus View Post
You can't run romex underground in a pipe

Why is that? It seems like it would just be extra protection that way.

Romex is not rated for wet locations such as underground. You must use a uf style romex.

Ben

 

[aabirdman]

wet locations or not romex is not used in conduit last time i check. I believe it has something to do with the temp ratings and ampacity rating on the conductors and insulation. By the way there may be no "next time" if this burns. Find someine that take pride in their work and knows what their doing!

 

[swaterbenny]

wet locations or not romex is not used in conduit last time i check. I believe it has something to do with the temp ratings and ampacity rating on the conductors and insulation. By the way there may be no "next time" if this burns. Find someine that take pride in their work and knows what their doing!

I would like a code reference of where it says romex can't be run in a pipe in a dry location. Most people just use the pipe as more of a sleeve than anything.Example 2" pvc from mechanical room to attic as a way of adding more circuits into the attic, etc.

I'd never pass it, a PVC lb is not made to splice wires in, replace the lb with a correctly sized pvc box and everything is cool.

You can splice in a lb, t, c, lr, or ll if it's rated for it.

Original poster do you feel like it would have been a lot less headaches just doing it yourself? Best of luck to you either way! Ben

 

[oleguy]

I would like a code reference of where it says romex can't be run in a pipe in a dry location. Most people just use the pipe as more of a sleeve than anything.Example 2" pvc from mechanical room to attic as a way of adding more circuits into the attic, etc.


You can splice in a lb, t, c, lr, or ll if it's rated for it.

Original poster do you feel like it would have been a lot less headaches just doing it yourself? Best of luck to you either way! Ben

yes that can be done.the question is refering to romex is that long runs as in lets say 20 plus feet or moreis not generaly permited.see article 334.1 of the code.it only allows for short runs or penetrating floors.334.15b.

 

[walrus]

You can splice in a lb, t, c, lr, or ll if it's rated for it.

Pretty big if in this case, isn't it? I don't use alot of PVC but I've never seen a PVC LB marked with its volume, maybe they make them???

 

[hidollartoys]

yes that can be done.the question is refering to romex is that long runs as in lets say 20 plus feet or moreis not generaly permited.see article 334.1 of the code.it only allows for short runs or penetrating floors.334.15b.

Not sure that this particular code section actually prohibits the use of romex in a conduit. It does specify that in some locations the use of a "conduit" is mandatory.

 

[oleguy]

apparently there is a section of the code that allows it to be done.however,it is just not a good idea.it is hard to pull through conduit.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

apparently there is a section of the code that allows it to be done.however,it is just not a good idea.it is hard to pull through conduit.

"hard" is putting it politely. If you are going more than a couple of feet, you will be hating life real quickly. The jacket on Romex is "sticky" and even with lube doesn't want to pull thru conduit.

Charles

 

[walrus]

Sim pull is pretty slippery, but not sure why you'd want it in conduit

 

[hidollartoys]

apparently there is a section of the code that allows it to be done.however,it is just not a good idea.it is hard to pull through conduit.

Hard or not the point is there are no code restrictions on romex in a conduit. The real question is, will a code inspector accept it? Unfortunately, most of the inspectors here are just as misinformed as some of the general public. Other misunderstood issues are quanity of ground rods, quanity of recepticals on a circuit, ground down on recepticals to name a few.

 

[WinFred]

that's a main lug panel and not intended for a resident main breaker.. how ever the 2P/50 is installed to function as a main and is acceptible.. also that panel is set up up for a 4 wire install is it what it is suppose to be..

as a note... there should be a "feeder" breaker at yur main panel inline with this box..
distance from the main panel and access dictate the call for the second disconnect...

 

[Steevo]

There, I fixed it!

Well, right, wrong or otherwise, I fired the electrician (after he pulled 100A wire through to the shop for me).

I ripped out that puny panel, replaced it with a 100A main breaker panel, filled it with breakers and ran wire everywhere in the shop.
I have two dedicated 50A 230v circuits with 6AWG wire (one for compressor and one for welder), one 8AWG 50A 230v run with two receptacles on far wall, three 30A 230V circuits with 10AWG wire to them for machinery (lathe, etc), four separate 20A 120v 12AWG runs with 6 receptacles each, outside light circuit, inside light circuit(s) for both fluorescent fixtures and incandescent bulbs, another circuit feeding bulbs i the attic for work light in case I ever have to get back in there later, a circuit for the bathroom, a circuit for the GD opener, a circuit for the heater power, etc.

I don't think there is anywhere in this shop where I could put anything that plugs in and not have the right receptacle available, and enough light to see it.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

THERE, I FIXED IT!

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Nice looking job!

Charles