Wifi in Barn Query

[Kainedogg]

I have a 40x80 foot metal barn about 100 yards (300ft) from the house and I am trying to figure out the most cost effective way to get a wifi signal out to it. I don't need 20mbs speeds I just want to be able to access the web and look up howto YouTube videos and stream Pandora while working. I also think by having the barn on my network, I can monitor certain key things like chlorine and insect repellant reservoir levels from the house.

Would love to hear what some people have done to make their barns/workshops more modern and accessible.

 

[tdkkart]

300 yards, as in 900ft?? That's gonna make it a bit trickier. Metal or wood building??

 

[jkwilson]

I use a power line Ethernet extender. Only works if your barn is on the same transformer as the house, but mine works flawlessly and took all of 2 minutes to install. Plug one end into an outlet in the house near your router, connect it to the router with an Ethernet cable, and put the other end in an outlet where you need service. $80 at Best Buy.

 

[alanbillips]

I've seen posts on this before here.

I suggest something from Ubiquiti.
Like the http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=52498&rH=1722

nanostation

This would be at the barn pointed toward the house and it would connect to your home wireless.
Then you would use any brand wireless router inside the barn connected to the nanostation.
This would make a bridge.
Note: sometimes it is easiest to have the barn router with a different ssid name than the home one.
Anyways, the nanostation is pretty powerful.
For long long connections, which yours in not, 2 nanostations pointed at each other work very well.

Ubiquiti has other products also. Check their user board on their web site for sample configurations like yours.

 

[Denwood]

At 300 yards you may be at powerline tech limits. Read over this: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/lanwan-basics/31585-smallnetbuilders-powerline-faq

Latest powerline products should have no issue crossing phases/breakers. This is consistent with my garage setup which even crosses over between our two separate panels in the house. It works, but at times streaming audio is inconsistent due to breaks in the network out in the garage. My wiring is old...30 to 50 yrs.

If you do want to try powerline, make sure you're using an AV500 unit, ideally that tested well at smallnetbuilder as linked above. Beyond that, the ubiq solution linked above will be the best buzz for your buck.

 

[Falcon67]

I've seen posts on this before here.

I suggest something from Ubiquiti.
Like the http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=52498&rH=1722

nanostation

This would be at the barn pointed toward the house and it would connect to your home wireless.
Then you would use any brand wireless router inside the barn connected to the nanostation.
This would make a bridge.
Note: sometimes it is easiest to have the barn router with a different ssid name than the home one.
Anyways, the nanostation is pretty powerful.
For long long connections, which yours in not, 2 nanostations pointed at each other work very well.

Ubiquiti has other products also. Check their user board on their web site for sample configurations like yours.

This - a pair of M2 Nanostation. Not expensive, very reliable, good throughput. Non-trivial to configure sometimes, but can be done with some thought. At work I have 4 remote buildings with phones, internet, streaming video, database, etc on M5 Nanos.

 

[boosteddsm92]

I would get a couple of something like these, one on the outside of your house and one on the outside of your barn. Then a separate access point inside your barn.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I don't have it on me but it is in my truck so I don't know the name of it. But my cell company gave me a little box that cost $25 and then an extra $10/month on my cell bill and I can use my tablet anywhere. I have only used it at my second job but it works really well and is easy. It works off of the data plan you have. You just connect to it like you would your home network.

 

[Kainedogg]

Great info guys. I edited the previous post. It is 300ft, not yards. I am still reading all the interesting threads and posts. Will comment further after.

 

[Kainedogg]

I've seen posts on this before here.

I suggest something from Ubiquiti.
Like the http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=52498&rH=1722

nanostation

This would be at the barn pointed toward the house and it would connect to your home wireless.
Then you would use any brand wireless router inside the barn connected to the nanostation.
This would make a bridge.
Note: sometimes it is easiest to have the barn router with a different ssid name than the home one.
Anyways, the nanostation is pretty powerful.
For long long connections, which yours in not, 2 nanostations pointed at each other work very well.

Ubiquiti has other products also. Check their user board on their web site for sample configurations like yours.

Alan,

this looks very interesting. Here is the other issue I failed to mention; the router is located in the front of the house and the barn...of course is out back. Will this device or devices still communicate through the layers of wall in the house then transmit to the barn, or is it a line of site type of thing? What type of router do you have in your home?

I use a power line Ethernet extender. Only works if your barn is on the same transformer as the house, but mine works flawlessly and took all of 2 minutes to install. Plug one end into an outlet in the house near your router, connect it to the router with an Ethernet cable, and put the other end in an outlet where you need service. $80 at Best Buy.

At 300 yards you may be at powerline tech limits. Read over this: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/lanwan-basics/31585-smallnetbuilders-powerline-faq

Latest powerline products should have no issue crossing phases/breakers. This is consistent with my garage setup which even crosses over between our two separate panels in the house. It works, but at times streaming audio is inconsistent due to breaks in the network out in the garage. My wiring is old...30 to 50 yrs.

If you do want to try powerline, make sure you're using an AV500 unit, ideally that tested well at smallnetbuilder as linked above. Beyond that, the ubiq solution linked above will be the best buzz for your buck.

I am gathering information on that right now.

This - a pair of M2 Nanostation. Not expensive, very reliable, good throughput. Non-trivial to configure sometimes, but can be done with some thought. At work I have 4 remote buildings with phones, internet, streaming video, database, etc on M5 Nanos.

These seem to be a viable option. I assume I need at least 2 yes. I will spend this evening reading the forum, but so far I like it.

I would get a couple of something like these, one on the outside of your house and one on the outside of your barn. Then a separate access point inside your barn.

By separate access point, do you mean another router? Never mind, I see where it can be a separate unit or internal to a router.

 

[boosteddsm92]

By separate access point, do you mean another router?

Sure, a wireless router would work but not using it as an actual router.

Anyway, it's under 328', do yourself a favor and run a hard line or 2. Forget wireless. Forget it. You can rent a shallow cable trencher and get the job done quickly, I rented something like this and buried 2 runs of cat6 direct bury in no time. That trencher routes/buries/backfills in one pass. Then you will just need an access point in your barn.

 

[SouperGrover]

Sure, a wireless router would work but not using it as an actual router.

Anyway, it's under 328', do yourself a favor and run a hard line or 2. Forget wireless. Forget it. You can rent a shallow cable trencher and get the job done quickly, I rented something like this and buried 2 runs of cat6 direct bury in no time. That trencher routes/buries/backfills in one pass. Then you will just need an access point in your barn.

I'm a network engineer by trade so here's my take on the order you should consider your options in.

1. Cat6 run. As boosteddsm92 mentioned it can easily be done. This will ALWAYS be your best option. First off, it's faster. Second off, it provides a better quality of signal. Third off, you aren't blasting your wireless signal everywhere for other people to pick up on. One misconfigured security setting in your wireless settings and you've just made it so someone can pick up your wifi from 400 ft away instead of standing right next to your house.

2. Ethernet over Power. It's slower than Cat6 but it offers better consistent signal than wireless.

3. Wireless. If you can't run cat6, and the EoP won't work due to the way your electrical pathways are done, then the wireless bridge mentioned above is your only choice. There is a lot more room for issues with wireless though. Besides the security factor, you have to consider how much other radio traffic is in your area. Most wireless routers/access points leave channels set to automatic, but I almost always set mine manually to a channel that isn't in use by other people in the area. This makes for less interference.

4. Wifi Hotspot on Your Phone. If you have a smartphone, and your provider offers it, you can turn your phone into a hospot and connect your devices that way. Prices range from $10-$30 extra on your cell bill so check with your provider.

That being said, my neighbor has a wireless bridge transmitting to his garage and it works great. We had to go this route because we are in a townhouse complex and the HOA wasn't too keen on us digging up the pool area to get an Interent connection to the garages

 

[Falcon67]

I'm a network engineer by trade so here's my take on the order you should consider your options in.

1. Cat6 run. As boosteddsm92 mentioned it can easily be done. This will ALWAYS be your best option. First off, it's faster. Second off, it provides a better quality of signal. Third off, you aren't blasting your wireless signal everywhere for other people to pick up on. One misconfigured security setting in your wireless settings and you've just made it so someone can pick up your wifi from 400 ft away instead of standing right next to your house.

The Ubiquity pair form a wireless bridge. You also lock the nodes to each other with the MAC addresses. Yes, you can fake a MAC for a Man in the middle attack - I'll bet someone would notice a guy on a ladder with a laptop trying to get between two nodes about a football field apart. I have 1000's of wireless clients wandering around here - no problems in the last 3 years with either the nodes or interference. We are still putting roofs on buildings from the hail storm in June 2014, including the building that is "home" to the remote wireless sites. The Ubiquity nodes survived the storm. This was a storm that blew out every window on the north side of buildings, same side the home nodes were on. Hail stones larger than coffee cups. The remotes did actually go offline earlier this year - when the roofers took the pole down.

Wire would work, probably even if he's over the spec distance, which is a given if the buildings are 100 yards line-of-sight. The nodes would cost very little more than a 1000' spool of direct bury cat whatever wire.

 

[SouperGrover]

The Ubiquity pair form a wireless bridge. You also lock the nodes to each other with the MAC addresses. Yes, you can fake a MAC for a Man in the middle attack - I'll bet someone would notice a guy on a ladder with a laptop trying to get between two nodes about a football field apart. I have 1000's of wireless clients wandering around here - no problems in the last 3 years with either the nodes or interference. We are still putting roofs on buildings from the hail storm in June 2014, including the building that is "home" to the remote wireless sites. The Ubiquity nodes survived the storm. This was a storm that blew out every window on the north side of buildings, same side the home nodes were on. Hail stones larger than coffee cups. The remotes did actually go offline earlier this year - when the roofers took the pole down.

Wire would work, probably even if he's over the spec distance, which is a given if the buildings are 100 yards line-of-sight. The nodes would cost very little more than a 1000' spool of direct bury cat whatever wire.

No question the Ubiquity solution is awesome. And I didn't mean to start stirring up the FUD. So, if we take the security out of the equation you are still going to get a more reliable signal using a cat6 cable. There are less opportunities for the environment to become a factor.

On the positive side, 300 ft is a lot of territory between your house and the barn. If you went with a wireless bridge you could potentially give wireless service to that entire area of your property. So, you could plop yourself under a shady tree between the house and the barn and stream movies to your tablet now that the wifi extends past your house.

 

[alanbillips]

You may not need 2 nano stations. depending on the house construction, it may pick it up from the barn. I can get my house from more than 300 ft.
If one does not work, then get the second.

 

[alanbillips]

In the barn, you will attach a wireless access point or a "router" acting like one.
Check the companies forum. You can find others with the same questions.

 

[astrohip]

I have nothing to add except I read this as "Wife in Barn Query".

So I read it wondering if he wanted to keep her in, or keep her out?

Sorry...

 

[PeterT]

I had some cheap chinese cat5 I had run in a conduit, lightening either hit the shop or house and fried both the router and the wires,, I repulled some plenum cat5, solid USA made stuff, bought a new asus router set it up as an access point and now I have reliable wireless in my barn

 

[Kainedogg]

Thank again gents. The Ubiquity seems like the more viable option for me at least for now.
I do remember the former owner saying there was a pipe that led from the barn to the house, but heck if he knows where it is now. (Buried by grass over the years)
If I don't like my first option then cable or POE it is. Does anyone have a favorite brand or model for POE by the way?

 

[2Big2Ride]

Our wireless access point in the house used three antennas and I removed one of the factory antennas and cabled the connection about 50' to an exterior flat panel antenna pointed at our metal clad shop about 100' feet behind the house. The better half can watch Netflix and YouTube in the shop with no problem.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I just buried the conduit and ran Cat5e, used a Netgear switch and plug in where ever I'm working.

 

[motofool33]

directional antenna, or point to point wireless access points, or any of the good solutions used above.

 

[Kainedogg]

So no particular brand or model for the POE? What are the important specs to be mindful of?

 

[SouperGrover]

So no particular brand or model for the POE? What are the important specs to be mindful of?

Here is a pretty good review on different models and things to look for.

http://www.techhive.com/article/2868314/home-networking/the-essential-guide-to-buying-a-homeplug-ethernet-adapter-including-6-hands-on-reviews.html

I'm glad to hear others have had success being able to cross circuits in the power infrastructure. In the past, this led to poor connectivity. When you pick a model I would pay attention to if they support this kind of thing or not.

Here is a diagram of how it will work basically.

1. Plug one adapter into a power plug close to your current wireless router.
2. Connect an Ethernet cable from the wireless router to the ethernet port on the adapter
3. Plug another adapter into an outlet in the garage.
4. If you just want to hook up one device like a desktop or laptop, you could just plug the ethernet cable into the device and the EoP adapter and you're done. If you want wireless in the garage you will need another wireless access point. Most big box stores don't carry "just" access points anymore. They carry wireless routers. This will work fine, but it is important to make sure you DO NOT connect the WAN/INTERNET port into the PoE adapter. Connect one of hte other LAN ports and you will be golden.

 

[boosteddsm92]

You guys are confusing PoE (power over ethernet) with Powerline (ethernet over power lines). VERY different things.

 

[SouperGrover]

You guys are confusing PoE (power over ethernet) with Powerline (ethernet over power lines). VERY different things.

You're totally right. Thanks for catching that. I flip flopped the E and the P. I mean to say Ethernet over Power (EoP). I have since corrected my previous post and diagram.

 

[Kainedogg]

Good catch on the POE/EOP stuff. One of my Network Infrastructure buddies ripped into me just now for saying that as though they interchange...lol.

I just ordered this to test things out (TP-LINK TL-WPA4220KIT ADVANCED AV500 Wi-Fi Powerline Extender Starter Kit with 2 LAN Ports, Up to 300Mbps Wireless )

Do I need a router with this or can I just plug an 8port switch in directly?

Souper what happens if you do connect the WAN/INTERNET port into the PoE adapter?

 

[boosteddsm92]

Good catch on the POE/EOP stuff. One of my Network Infrastructure buddies ripped into me just now for saying that as though they interchange...lol.

I just ordered this to test things out (TP-LINK TL-WPA4220KIT ADVANCED AV500 Wi-Fi Powerline Extender Starter Kit with 2 LAN Ports, Up to 300Mbps Wireless )

Do I need a router with this or can I just plug an 8port switch in directly?

Souper what happens if you do connect the WAN/INTERNET port into the PoE adapter?

You can use a switch if you only have wired devices in the barn. If you want wifi you're going to want a wireless router or ap. If router, assign a static ip, turn off dhcp service, and don't use the wan port. That basically makes it an access point.

 

[SouperGrover]

Souper what happens if you do connect the WAN/INTERNET port into the PoE adapter?

If you plug the router's WAN port into the EoP adapter, you will be setting up an isolated network in the barn. Totally doable and desirable in some situations (I have one setup in my house to isolate certain devices more). But, unless you see a need to keep your house network and your barn network separated it will overcomplicate things in the long run. Like boosteddsm92 mentioned you should also assign the router a static ip address (so you can talk to it later) and turn off dhcp (you probably have this running on your current wireless router and two on the same network is bad).

 

[bannerd]

Few things you can do, 300ft is not impossible to run cat5e or cat6 underground. I've ran cat5 up to 512ft before there was noise on the line. Anything below that will work well, even better if shielded.

The ubiquiti stuff works well, all you need to do is pick up;

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SHQ644/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It comes with everything to supply power to the units (just need to source cat cables). If you want, they make an outdoor unit as well;

We run these at metro for a mesh network and they work really well. As long as you have a clear line of site to the building it will handle it. From building to building we're able to pickup the ID's from 1700FT even though the units say they're not capable. Line of site is very important.

Setup is simple.. data would run to the internet port on the router. Router should have a built in switch (typically 4 ports for home use). Utilize one port from the switch to the ubnt provided power block. From the block another cat cord goes to the access point. It's all software driven and doesn't take much to get going. Good luck.

 

[Whiskeymike]

I'd trench a line and run cat 6. Everything else was a major headache. Now, I run youtube videos to a tv, stream music through the shop, and I also got a Microcell free from ATT that allows me to route my cellphone over the network so I don't miss txt messages or calls which was impossible before because of the metal building.

 

[27carter]

I had a similar set up and ran the nanostations. Set it up about a month ago and works perfect, took me to a couple tries to get everything communicating, but not too bad. I would say my expertise in computers is about average, so not too hard to set up. I love it, was able to connect into my Sonos system and have music through it in the barn!

 

[barks]

Find the buried pipe, blow string through and pull quality cable.

 

[Kainedogg]

Hey guys, I am vested in the EOP setup listed above. It should be here this Friday. I will test it out, if I don't like it, then I'll return it to Amazon and try the Ubiquiti route, and then finally if those fail, I will find that mystery pipe from the house to the barn.
What irks me is the router is all the way in the front of the house and I would have to run wire through the wall, up in the attic and somewhere hidden outside before finally putting it in the ground...that literally has so little appeal, it's not funny...hence the last resort that it is.

 

[Kainedogg]

The TP linke Ethernet over Power did not work for me. I guess it could not jump between boxes. I am sending it back today and going with the Ubiquiti NanoStation M2 MIMO airMAX TDMA Station, 2.4GHz, Ubiquiti, NSM2.

I will post up results this week.

 

[Kainedogg]

I've seen posts on this before here.

I suggest something from Ubiquiti.
Like the http://www.cyberguys.com/product-details/?productid=52498&rH=1722

nanostation

This would be at the barn pointed toward the house and it would connect to your home wireless.
Then you would use any brand wireless router inside the barn connected to the nanostation.
This would make a bridge.
Note: sometimes it is easiest to have the barn router with a different ssid name than the home one.
Anyways, the nanostation is pretty powerful.
For long long connections, which yours in not, 2 nanostations pointed at each other work very well.

Ubiquiti has other products also. Check their user board on their web site for sample configurations like yours.

Going this route Alan.

 

[scooz14]

i droped some coax cable into a trech and ran it 150' to the shop. was gonna do cat 5 but i wanted cable tv too. just bought a second modem, called comcast with the new router mac id and 10 min later up and running.