Will LED lights be too bright with metal ceiling & walls?

[Repsolracer22]

So im finishing my 40x60 currently. Just put up ceiling. The ceiling is metal (like the outside of garage siding). Bright white. The walls I have not ordered yet, but the plan was to put the same bright white metal on the walls too. I think it looks good and clean.

So I bought a bunch of these LED over head lights. They are 4ft long and are rated at 40w 4500 lumens. If I put a bunch of these on the ceiling mounted flush (like 18 fixtures) is it going to be too bright in there? Need sunglasses every time I go in there? Too much reflective?

 

[bczygan]

What height is the ceiling and what height are the lights going to be at?

What color temperature are they?

Just based on the quantity you mention and the size of your space, I think you will barely have enough general illumination to walk around without bumping into things.

Bill

 

[Repsolracer22]

What height is the ceiling and what height are the lights going to be at?

What color temperature are they?

Just based on the quantity you mention and the size of your space, I think you will barely have enough general illumination to walk around without bumping into things.

Bill

ceiling 12ft and we were going to mount them to the ceiling flush. The "color" of the light is white. That's what it says in specs. They are the "lights of america" brand LED shop light 48". Sams, BJs, etc sell them. Great deal. And they put out a lot of light.

But literally EVERYONE on the net keeps saying you need way more lights. But my contractor is telling me he doesnt want to hang more than 15 units because its overkill. He acts like Im crazy wanting more than 15. But every single person online talks about needing way more lights. So its kind of difficult to tell my guy, "but everyone online says i need more"

 

[bczygan]

LED lights can have a different kind of light, that is difficult for me to look at directly.

My just under 10x20 garage with white walls and ceiling has 8 2 tube 4' T8 fixtures. Ceiling is 9' and fixtures at 8'.

I have a nice bright space that I can work in any part of. Measurement is 50 footcandles at benchtop height.

To light your space the same, assuming the same ceiling and fixture height would require 96 fixtures.

Now, you may not need that level of general illumination, or need it everywhere.

So, decide where you need task lighting and what the level needs to be for those tasks. Decide what the general level of illumination needs to be for the rest of the space, and design your lighting to accommodate your particular uses in various areas.


Bill

 

[bczygan]

ceiling 12ft and we were going to mount them to the ceiling flush. The "color" of the light is white. That's what it says in specs. They are the "lights of america" brand LED shop light 48". Sams, BJs, etc sell them. Great deal. And they put out a lot of light.

But literally EVERYONE on the net keeps saying you need way more lights. But my contractor is telling me he doesnt want to hang more than 15 units because its overkill. He acts like Im crazy wanting more than 15. But every single person online talks about needing way more lights. So its kind of difficult to tell my guy, "but everyone online says i need more"

Color temperature is important to me. It is designated in K. I use Daylight which is 6500K. It is a bright clear white which is shifted toward the blue end of the spectrum (Although it does not look blue), which gives what some think is a harsh light. To me it is the best color for shops and garages. Soft White gives a yellowish light like your typical incandescent lamps which makes for a cozy by the fire feeling, best suited for living rooms.

Hanging that high, in that big a space the 18 will give you a fairly low general lighting. Good enough for walking around, but not for working on things.

Here's a test.

Get a light meter app for your phone and get out and find places that are illuminated to a level that you would like for your place. Measure their footcandles at waist level with that phone app.

Then go online and use one of the online calculators to design your setup to give you that level. Over design it because real life ends up being about half of what the calculators say, especially after filling with machines etc. Mine was designed for 100FC and ended up being 50.

But realize that my space is small, and I wanted the entire space lit to a level that I could do bench work everywhere without the need for additional task lights. You may want a far lower level of general illumination with additional task lights at work areas, things like lower lights at benches and machines.

Check your color temperature though.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Here's the app I use:
http://www.keuwl.com/LightMeter/

Here's the lighting layout tool:
http://www.e-conolight.com/lightinglayout

I just did a layout with the tool using 18 5000 lumen fixtures and got 24 footcandles at 3'. This confirms what I said above. Good enough to walk around, but not for working on things.

If it was my space I would bump this up a little just for general lighting, and then in the spaces where I needed to actually work on things I would either add enough fixtures to accomplish that, and/or task lighting at the workstation where it is needed.

Whatever level of general illumination you choose, and the number and types of fixtures you install, consider adding additional wiring, so you can add fixtures to change it later to make adjustments.

Remember to switch your lights in banks so you don't have to turn them all on at once.

Make your own design decisions and good luck.

Bill

 

[53Sparky]

bczygan has covered most of the technical stuff: I'll support his theoretical with some practical real world.

We have a 2400 square foot workshop attached to our warehouse. White walls, white ceiling, grey epoxy floor, with 12 8' LED 2 light strips (equivalent to 24 of your strips). We have a good, bright working environment shop at this point, but I would think that if you went down to much fewer than 15-18, you'd start getting shadows and or uneven lighting. Hang the lights as high as you can to get the most even lighting possible and to benefit from all that white reflective surface area on the ceiling.

I spent 15 years as an electrician, and I have spent 10 years in my own shop environment.

My conclusion: Don't skimp on lighting. You're the one who is footing the bill and you're the one who has to use the space long after your contractor (and his opinion) is gone. If you think it's going to be too bright, ask for some separation of the lighting into different zones so you can turn off lights when you're just using the space on a daily basis. But when you need the light, you need light, so then you can turn on the rest of them.

 

[NUTTSGT]

If you're going to mount them flush, I'd use strip lights rather than shop lights. Strips lights have no reflector allowing that big *** white ceiling to act as a reflector.

How cares what the contractor thinks is overkill, it's you space and you're paying for the work. As you get older, you'll need more light. Right now, you may not need them on but it's easy to flip a switch for more lights.

 

[bczygan]

Your contractor is probably thinking of this like a farm building where you just need enough light to park the tractor without hitting something.

Your 12' ceiling is also a difficulty. Maybe not high enough for high bay fixtures, but light levels drop off with distance, so height doesn't help, except to make light more even.

BTW, It looks like the color temperature is 5000K on that fixture, which should be good.

And NUTTSGT is right. Your fixtures have reflectors which negate the reflecting value of the ceiling. I might be tempted to use them for task lighting and hang them lower over areas requiring higher light levels, like benches and work areas, or use nearer to walls, where the reflectors will direct the light onto the walls. Then get strip lights to mount on the ceiling.

Bill

 

[Repsolracer22]

thanks guys for the help and advice. and yes, ultimately im the guy using the shop everyday and paying for it, etc etc. he actually wanted to do 15 lights spaced 10ft apart. he drew markings on the floor where each fixture would be attached above. and 15 looked great. they were spaced nicely and it seemed like it would be plenty. and then i figured if i was working on something real intricate at my work bench, id want to have a shop light on the wall to illuminate JUST that area/project. So then (in my head) i bumped up the number of fixtures to 18. Which would be 6 rows of 3 fixtures. That seems like A LOT of light. These lights do put off a good amount of light.

But I dont ever want to discount experience and good sound advice from people. This site is very helpful and an OVERWHELMING amount of people are agreeing with the same thing. I dont think there's even 1 person on here with a 40x60 saying that 15-18 4' fixtures is perfect.

But I already have 16 of the fixtures so Im definitely going to use them, and not switch them out for different styles at this point. They got great reviews across the board, the price was right, and several reviews were from people in shops w 12' ceilings. So now its just a question of how many fixtures.

And again, im thinking that 18 will be MORE than adequete to walk around and do stuff. And if I need more 'specific' light in one are or on a project, then I can attach a light a lot closer to that project when working on it. If i have 100 fixtures on the ceiling, it still wont illuminate underneath a car on a lift. so gotta keep it in mind

 

[dontlifttoshift]

The OPs 18 fixtures is about 1/3rd of what I have planned for 36x58x15.5 using a light fixture with similar lumens output. (Platonic's best light fixture ever) That is supposed to get me right around 100 FC.

 

[bczygan]

The OPs 18 fixtures is about 1/3rd of what I have planned for 36x58x15.5 using a light fixture with similar lumens output. (Platonic's best light fixture ever) That is supposed to get me right around 100 FC.

You are doing the fairly high light level everywhere method.

 

[bczygan]

thanks guys for the help and advice. and yes, ultimately im the guy using the shop everyday and paying for it, etc etc. he actually wanted to do 15 lights spaced 10ft apart. he drew markings on the floor where each fixture would be attached above. and 15 looked great. they were spaced nicely and it seemed like it would be plenty. and then i figured if i was working on something real intricate at my work bench, id want to have a shop light on the wall to illuminate JUST that area/project. So then (in my head) i bumped up the number of fixtures to 18. Which would be 6 rows of 3 fixtures. That seems like A LOT of light. These lights do put off a good amount of light.

But I dont ever want to discount experience and good sound advice from people. This site is very helpful and an OVERWHELMING amount of people are agreeing with the same thing. I dont think there's even 1 person on here with a 40x60 saying that 15-18 4' fixtures is perfect.

But I already have 16 of the fixtures so Im definitely going to use them, and not switch them out for different styles at this point. They got great reviews across the board, the price was right, and several reviews were from people in shops w 12' ceilings. So now its just a question of how many fixtures.

And again, im thinking that 18 will be MORE than adequete to walk around and do stuff. And if I need more 'specific' light in one are or on a project, then I can attach a light a lot closer to that project when working on it. If i have 100 fixtures on the ceiling, it still wont illuminate underneath a car on a lift. so gotta keep it in mind

Good plan, but my advice is to bump that up to 24 (4 rows of 6) and add wiring for future.

Bill

 

[Abeo]

Just FYI, I have a 24x26 garage with 8' ceilings, and I have 20 4' t8 fixtures with white walls and ceiling. It is bright enough for me, unless I'm doing bodywork. I would think with your space 15 or 18 fixtures wouldn't be enough to work on things without task lighting.

 

[G-ManBart]

The shop side of my barn is 24x40 with a 13' 4" ceiling height and I did white metal walls and ceiling. I hung five 11,200 lumen Lithonia high bay lights at about 12'6" high. I framed the one corner as a bathroom/utility room and didn't hang a light over that section. I'm happy with how much light I have, but now they've come out with a 15,000 lumen version of the same light, and I put one of those over my welding table on the barn side...it's a lot more light, so I wish I had those on the shop side. I could easily add several more of these 11,200 lumen lights and not be too bright.

I've considered adding a light or two over the bathroom corner just to cut down on the shadows up there...mostly just because it looks a bit odd when you stop and look at it.

I will say I looked at the Lights of America 4' models they sell at Sam's etc and was really unimpressed. I guess it might be different if they weren't already in a pretty well-lit area.

You're talking about 81,000 lumens for 40x60, so this is was 56,000 lumens looks like in 40x24. Keep in mind these pics weren't taken really to demonstrate lighting, and aren't in sequence. The video might give you a better idea of the actual lighting in place...it's not a great video, but was really just to update friends and family who were asking about how it was going.

 

[Repsolracer22]

just talked to my guy thats hanging the lights. told him id like to do 24 fixtures total. 12 on one switch and 12 on the other. so screw it. we're going with that.! next week when they are operation and wired up, ill take some pics

 

[gnxtc2]

The OPs 18 fixtures is about 1/3rd of what I have planned for 36x58x15.5 using a light fixture with similar lumens output. (Platonic's best light fixture ever) That is supposed to get me right around 100 FC.

At that ceiling height, I would go with T5HO.

My shop......T8 with 850 bulbs mounted at 12'

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[NUTTSGT]

At that ceiling height, I would go with T5HO.

My shop......T8 with 850 bulbs mounted at 12'

Billy T.
[email protected]

Huh what Billy ? You have 850 bulbs ?

 

[gnxtc2]

The bulbs are Ushio F32T8/850

850 =
8 = 86% CRI
50 = 5000k
3050 lumens

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[Repsolracer22]

What material is on the bottom portion of your walls? Looks good


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[gnxtc2]

1/2" plywood with 2 coats of oil base Kilz and 1 coat oil base enamel.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[dontlifttoshift]

At that ceiling height, I would go with T5HO.

My shop......T8 with 850 bulbs mounted at 12'

Billy T.
[email protected]

I'm listening if you care to expand.

 

[Repsolracer22]

nice. and why did you do the plywood? just so you wouldnt bash the metal? looks good

 

[gnxtc2]

I'm listening if you care to expand.

T5HO bulb = 5000 lumens
4' LED bulb = 2800 lumens

With the higher ceiling, you want more of a "punch" for the light to reach the ground.

Friend's shop (16' ceiling) that I layed out for him. Notice there is nothing on the ceilings and walls, he's going with the same white panel liner as my shop. Plus, he didn't put all the fixtures. The fixtures are 6 bulb - T5HOs.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[gnxtc2]

nice. and why did you do the plywood? just so you wouldnt bash the metal? looks good

Yep, thanks

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[Repsolracer22]

Here's a couple currents pics from today. 12 out of the 24 fixtures are mounted and wired. Pretty nice.






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[dontlifttoshift]

T5HO bulb = 5000 lumens
4' LED bulb = 2800 lumens

With the higher ceiling, you want more of a "punch" for the light to reach the ground.

Friend's shop (16' ceiling) that I layed out for him. Notice there is nothing on the ceilings and walls, he's going with the same white panel liner as my shop. Plus, he didn't put all the fixtures. The fixtures are 6 bulb - T5HOs.

Thanks. That looks like a bunch of hot spots to me but it's hard to tell in a picture.