Williams copper socket?

[alton1911]

I found this Williams universal socket a while back. I have not seen another one in any brand. I was just wondering how common these type wrenches are and wondering what purpose it would serve.
Any information would be appreciated.



Thanks in advance,
alton1911

 

[2oolhound]

Chrome plating has several methods available. The standard was 1st coat copper, nice and thick to fill imperfections, then nickel plate followed by the chrome layer.

That socket looks like it's worn down to the cooper.

 

[alton1911]

Chrome plating has several methods available. The standard was 1st coat copper, nice and thick to fill imperfections, then nickel plate followed by the chrome layer.

That socket looks like it's worn down to the cooper.

I thought that too. I’m not 100% sure that is true here, mainly because the protected areas of the socket is the most copper colored. Looks like the wear areas are discolored to grey metal. If it was originally chrome, I think it would have had to be chemical wear to take it off everything so completely.
Again I just don’t know for sure.

Thanks
alton1911

 

[bill300d]

It looks like some one painted it a bronze color some time in the past.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

alton,

At least one vintage manufacturer (Bethlehem Spark Plug Company) made socket wrench sets explicitly finished with copper-plating for rust prevention. I have found several other vintage sockets with copper plating that was clearly not an undercoat. And at least one manufacturer (Plomb) was using copper (as opposed to BeCu) as a spark reduction (versus guaranteed non-sparking) coating on certain wrenches. Other tools (including Snap-On) have been found and shown here that clearly had a final copper coating (as opposed to a copper undercoating).

A thread I started to explore the subject is linked here.

 

[alton1911]

I believe this socket started out being copper coated. I have no way to be sure.

 

[2oolhound]

Interesting thread there Lug. Good info.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I believe this socket started out being copper coated. I have no way to be sure.

If by "started out" you mean it was plated in the factory, not coated by someone after it was made, I agree. In the midst of providing you background information and a link to aid in your own assessment, I neglected to say that. I'd have more confidence making this assessment in person with the socket, but that doesn't look like undercoating. I am skeptical of it being a socket so thoroughly worn of a final chrome plating yet leaving that much undercoating. If there weren't so many examples of other such tools, I might think that automatically. But it looks like an originally copper-coated tool to me.

Interesting thread there Lug. Good info.

Thanks.

 

[alton1911]

If by "started out" you mean it was plated in the factory, not coated by someone after it was made, I agree. In the midst of providing you background information and a link to aid in your own assessment, I neglected to say that. I'd have more confidence making this assessment in person with the socket, but that doesn't look like undercoating. I am skeptical of it being a socket so thoroughly worn of a final chrome plating yet leaving that much undercoating. If there weren't so many examples of other such tools, I might think that automatically. But it looks like an originally copper-coated tool to me.


Thanks.

I have looked very closely at it. I see a lot of wear. To me it looks as if it has worn away the copper finish to reveal the base metal. The protected area inside the joints are copper coated. When I found it, it was dirty and I did not notice the copper. I can imagine that copper sockets might be an advantage in areas where you want to avoid sparks. In the oil/gas production we used a steel gauge line to check the level of oil in the steel tanks. As an added measure of spark reduction the industry standard dictates using a brass plumb bob at the end of a steel tape.

Thank you all.
alton1911

 

[moreover]

So does a magnet stick to it?

 

[4xdog]

So does a magnet stick to it?

Exactly what I'd wonder. I suppose there's a small chance it's an anti-sparking bronze alloy.

 

[Ji m]

that sure looks like gold paint to me on my little phone screen.

Even the spots I'd expect to be worn dowm like the edges are showing chrome (like the paint rubbed off).

Also it looks like overspray inside the u-joint inner block,
and even the pin is gold/copper (as it would be if painted).

So I'm going with paint as an owner marking method.

 

[ER70S-2]

I vote spray paint. Op, this is not hard to test. Scrape at the coating with something or put a little paint stripper on it. And of course a magnet will stick to it. It is not solid copper.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Also it looks like overspray inside the u-joint inner block, and even the pin is gold/copper (as it would be if painted).

If it was plated, why wouldn't the pin be plated?

In fact, here is a copper-plated uni joint made in 1924 by Bethlehem Spark Plug Company. The pin, along with every other surface, was originally plated. Wearing badly thin in some places, but plated.

View media item 76680
View media item 76681
What difference do you guys who are seeing paint on the Williams uni joint see between the finish/coating on this BSP Co uni joint and the Williams uni joint?

Here are some more pieces. All copper-coated or copper-plated. So how, in descriptive terms, are you guys who are seeing paint able to distinguish it as paint from these copper coatings?

View media item 75958
View media item 75956

 

[humber2]

My vote is fake sun tan.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Ha!

 

[four.cycle]

I would think figuring out whether it was paint or plating would be pretty simple. Paint dissolves if you apply a solvent. It also burns if you apply heat.
It would also most likely come off pretty easily if you scraped it with a sharp object.

Have any of the above three methods been attempted?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I would think figuring out whether it was paint or plating would be pretty simple. Paint dissolves if you apply a solvent. It also burns if you apply heat.
It would also most likely come off pretty easily if you scraped it with a sharp object.

Have any of the above three methods been attempted?

Personally, I wouldn't trust the scratch test on a vintage piece. The plating on all my copper plated pieces is very susceptible to scratching. But yeah, someone suggested both scratching and a solvent. Way to bring the heat, though, BK!

It'll be interesting to see the results.

 

[ER70S-2]

I would think figuring out whether it was paint or plating would be pretty simple. Paint dissolves if you apply a solvent. It also burns if you apply heat.
It would also most likely come off pretty easily if you scraped it with a sharp object.

Have any of the above three methods been attempted?

That's what I was saying...

 

[alton1911]

The pins are a good place to point out my logic on Copper Finish vs. Chrome.



In these two photos you can see that the pin has shifted a bit off center over the years. This produced a protected end on one side and an exposed end on the other side. The exposed side had more surface to surface contact and has worn through the copper. The other side being protected, is more original. The center parts show no sign of chrome and I would think it would at least had some remaining if it was ever applied. Unless chemicals can eat chrome and leave copper untouched?

Thanks again,
alton1911

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The pins are a good place to point out my logic on Copper Finish vs. Chrome.

While it was suggested that it might be an undercoat, I don't think anyone is disagreeing too strenuously about it not being chromed at one time over the top of that copper layer.

The debate is whether the copper-colored finish is a copper oxide coating or thin plating of some kind applied by the factory, or whether it was simply spray painted by an owner. Frankly, I wasn't sure if the 'paint voting crew' had read any of my replies about vintage copper-coated or plated tools, followed any of my links to known examples, or whether they had heard of or seen any for themselves before, so I posted photos of examples directly.

If you want to resolve the debate, sacrifice a small area of the finish to a good rubbing with a rag soaked in a paint solvent (mineral spirits, turpentine, acetone, etc) and let us know what happens.

 

[d42jeep]

There is no doubt that all of the examples I posted on the other thread have NOT been painted!
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Same goes for all of the examples I posted above, Don. And I highly doubt the Williams swivel is paint. But I could be wrong and alton can settle it right quick.

 

[3baygarage]

I’ve run into a good number of copper Williams, usually sockets or extensions. My take on it is some of them may have been removed prior to finished chrome, maybe as seconds, or taken by employees.

Some while I can’t say for sure, may have been finished in copper for use in certain environments.

Here’s a link to a box of power sockets (the last picture) I posted in an old garage sale thread, all the shallows were copper. These are typically black like the others in that picture, so not sure what the deal is.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4054914&postcount=3648

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for chiming in, 3eeb. Good to know you've found others.

 

[alton1911]

Same goes for all of the examples I posted above, Don. And I highly doubt the Williams swivel is paint. But I could be wrong and alton can settle it right quick.

There is no paint. This one is base metal some sort of hard steel that is covered in an even coat of copper.
When I found it, it was sort of dark and dirty. No rust. After a little cleaning it started looking like it does now.
Its the only one I have found, but Williams stuff is not super common where I hunt.
Thanks again
alton1911

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for confirming.