Williams Sockets ARE Soft

[DSLTRK]

Just got a $400 order of Williams SAE 6PT sockets to replace my Craftsman ones.

Removed some 1/2" bolts on a Dana axle coverplate and the socket already has substantial wear. Never remember my Snap-Ons or Craftsman sockets doing this.

I investigate further with a brand new Snappy 7/16" and use a grade 8 bolt, well look at the pictures and see for yourself.

They may be made in the same plant, but the tempering and/or alloy is NOT delivering the hardness and wear-ability I'm used to seeing in chromies.

I am going to send these back, and buy Snappys. ***** because I really was hoping the Williams would be on par.

I do love the Williams t-handle ratchet screwdriver though. That's a good deal.

The 1/2" Shallow:


The 1/2" Deep:


The 7/16" shallows, Snap-On on Left; Williams, Right:


The 7/16" Shallows, Snap-On on Left; Williams, Right:

 

[noid]

Is it the chrome that is soft? Hard to tell from the picture if its just the chrome or the base material that is deforming.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

It's the base material, my snap-ons and williams both do it. They can get pretty worn and still grip fine.

 

[DSLTRK]

Is it the chrome that is soft? Hard to tell from the picture if its just the chrome or the base material that is deforming.

No, it is the steel completely yielding on the end. It left a sharp ridge right on the flank part of the broach.

It's the base material, my snap-ons and williams both do it. They can get pretty worn and still grip fine.

I don't remember my limited Snap-On sockets deforming this easily, they seemed to slightly deform only if used on an impact with a high grade fastener.

Even my cheap USA Craftsman sockets are hardened to a very high degree, and the heavily used 1/2" has nowhere near this amount of wear.

Look at the 7/16" sockets, both were made in the same year. Picture tells the story.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The SO seem to last longer than williams, but they all succumb to this in the end. I've done this to HF, SO, Williams, Gearwrench, Craftsman - basically anything I've used a lot.


Use the USA Williams and they will develop a wear pattern like that. It looks horrid, but will stop after a little bit, and stabilize. IMO the softness may be related to how they bite into the fastener.

 

[DSLTRK]

The Craftsman pictured here has seen heavy use and has LESS wear than the new Williams used on 10 differential cover bolts.

I get the break-in argument, but that much wear is excessive.

The whole reason I bought Williams was a tighter tolerance than CM and hopefully to hold that tolerance for a long period of time/use.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I just walked out into the garage and looked at my Williams sockets and none of them show the deformations yours do. Must be a bad batch.

 

[noid]

The Craftsman pictured here has seen heavy use and has LESS wear than the new Williams used on 10 differential cover bolts.

I get the break-in argument, but that much wear is excessive.

The whole reason I bought Williams was a tighter tolerance than CM and hopefully to hold that tolerance for a long period of time/use.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

If tighter tolerances is what youre looking for then consider getting some koken zeal sockets.

http://rtstools.com/the-best-hand-tool-sockets-in-the-world/

 

[Yarpo]

Just to clarify this is what I'm looking at, right? They do look pretty soft if that's after just a few bow low torque cover bolts.

 

[CR888]

I think the OP definitely has reason for concern, he's not claiming to be an expert on socket hardness, just posting his experience having used chrome sockets for many years. At $400 for SAE 'only' that kind of *****, he could have bought Taiwan for a fraction of the price but was prepared to buy tools he thought would last. The damage looks like a soft CR-m impact socket, good chromes 'should' be hardened better.

 

[DSLTRK]

Just to clarify this is what I'm looking at, right? They do look pretty soft if that's after just a few bow low torque cover bolts.

Yes, and these are probably grade 5 cover bolts, nothing extreme.

I think the OP definitely has reason for concern, he's not claiming to be an expert on socket hardness, just posting his experience having used chrome sockets for many years. At $400 for SAE 'only' that kind of *****, he could have bought Taiwan for a fraction of the price but was prepared to buy tools he thought would last. The damage looks like a soft CR-m impact socket, good chromes 'should' be hardened better.

I try to buy USA whenever possible, but I can't give THIS SET in my possession kudos. I have Taiwan sockets and they hold up better than these Williams.

I am prepared to buy Snap-On sockets if need be, as the tool performance and customer service I've received has been top notch.

 

[toolmutt]

Interesting to see this. I was just about to by some Williams sockets. I may reconsider.

 

[ChrisLS8]

Did you buy US Williams? They have two lineups and the US made stuff has Letters in the part number and the Taiwan is just numbers. I have a shallow 3/8 metric set of US Williams and haven't had that issue at all despite using them with my Stubby impact

 

[jgromada]

That is noticeable. At least for the US made stuff I thought Williams and Snap-On were made in same factory?

 

[Skin]

You can also do that by using the wrong size. You sure the socket wasn't mis-stamped or the bolt heads weren't 12mm?

Must be a bad batch.

Highly doubtful. They do runs by a single size not by sets.

 

[65k10]

I can believe it. The Williams sockets I have do not see a ton of use in the sizes I have them in, but I've seen similar damage at the mouth of the socket with minor use. The most noticeable has been on my 3/4" and 1" drive sockets. However, part of me wonders if it's from using them in less than ideal circumstances that are rare enough I haven't been able to try them again with a different brand. I bought most of them for much less than normal price so I've accepted it, but I'm reluctant to pay full price for Williams sockets after these experiences.

 

[Jrems]

Think your on to something I just checked the drive end on my 3/8 usa and has the same Mark's, never noticed untill I saw the post, my older craftsman set definitely has nothing like that

 

[drtyler]

Hand ratchet/breaker bar or impact use?

 

[DSLTRK]

Did you buy US Williams? They have two lineups and the US made stuff has Letters in the part number and the Taiwan is just numbers. I have a shallow 3/8 metric set of US Williams and haven't had that issue at all despite using them with my Stubby impact

USA made 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" Deep and Shallow

You can also do that by using the wrong size. You sure the socket wasn't mis-stamped or the bolt heads weren't 12mm?

Really Skin?, No... the 1/2" was actually a 1/2" SAE. The Dana bolts were 5/16-18 tpi SAE flanged bolts.

PLUS, I did a quick test with the 7/16" sizes using 1/4-20 tpi bolts, and got similar results.

Hand ratchet/breaker bar or impact use?

Hand ratchet only, though these seem to be soft as impacts and I have no doubt they wouldn't shatter.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I have a $10 set of Harbor Freight chrome sockets that I use exclusively on an impact that look pretty similar but that's after impact use for a while.

What's the warranty cover on those sockets?

 

[DSLTRK]

I have a $10 set of Harbor Freight chrome sockets that I use exclusively on an impact that look pretty similar but that's after impact use for a while.

What's the warranty cover on those sockets?

Waiting to hear back from Zoro, but Williams states they will refund and provide label.

 

[Steve_P]

Something is definitely wrong there. I have 10 yr old USA Williams with 100x the use that still look like new

 

[metlmunchr]

I picked up a 6 point chrome 1-5/16 Carlyle at NAPA a couple weeks ago and used it to loosen a nut that required 900+ ft lbs to break as measured with a torque wrench and a 6 to 1 torque multiplier. No deformation of the socket whatsoever.

Either something's wrong with the heat treat on the Williams sockets the OP got, or they're intentionally leaving them softer than normal under the assumption that they'll be used on impact wrenches. A 5/16-18 Grade 5 only torques to 13 ft-lbs, so the upper end of the breakaway torque should be less than 20 ft-lbs else the bolt would break rather than loosening.

 

[visionguru]

I doubt chrome sockets from dollar stores would do that. The metal indeed seems butter soft.

 

[yrly]

Look worse for wear than the decade old Taiwanese Allied Pros that I take to the junk yard and beat the heck out of.

I never noticed this with older Williams.

 

[DSLTRK]

They are accepting the return without issue.

I remember reading a post here that claimed a Williams rep stated the sockets were hardened to a lesser degree, which was written to indicate a VERY small degree. That has proven to be off in my case.

The limited Williams sockets I have owned, made during the pre-Snap-On acquisition have been very durable.

 

[CR888]

Good chromes need to be well hardened to get good long service life. The OP will be worried now if the replacements are going to he any better. I hope they are otherwise maybe get some Kokens.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

Would like to hear more about the sockets you recieved.

When you say that you just recieved them, do you mean that as in you just recieved them last week recently or months ago recently?

I have fairly recent William's sockets that I just recieved from toolsdelivered.com from around june of this year. I also used the William's sockets exclusively to rebuild my cousins rear diff last month and I dont have wear like that.

Also curious to hear more about what williams/zoro had to say. Did William's say that was unusual/defective wear? Did they give any insight into maybe why you had these results?

 

[DSLTRK]

Good chromes need to be well hardened to get good long service life. The OP will be worried now if the replacements are going to he any better. I hope they are otherwise maybe get some Kokens.

They are on their way back as a return to get my money back. I'm getting Snap-On.

Would like to hear more about the sockets you recieved.

When you say that you just recieved them, do you mean that as in you just recieved them last week recently or months ago recently?

I have fairly recent William's sockets that I just recieved from toolsdelivered.com from around june of this year. I also used the William's sockets exclusively to rebuild my cousins rear diff last month and I dont have wear like that.

Also curious to hear more about what williams/zoro had to say. Did William's say that was unusual/defective wear? Did they give any insight into maybe why you had these results?

Received them on Sept 30th, used them Sept 30th.
They have date codes of 2017 2018 and 2019. The year didn't seem to effect the steel wear-ability.

Williams CS was awesome and they didn't mention that this was a common issue/unusual or defective. She simply apologized and explained the distributor would contact them for a RMA label once I initiated a return.

I asked if she knew these were manufactured differently than Snap-On and she didn't know.

I wish the results I had were better because these sockets truly are a beautiful, well forged set.

 

[Stinky_Pete]

How many of them did you use? And did they all have this same problem? I'm just wondering if it's only a few out of this order that deformed like this, and did the others hold up.
I agree there's no excuse for this, and not even one in a set should be bad, and the quality of all of them are in question. But like other people here have said, I have Williams sockets and never had a problem with them, and think they're the equal of Snap-on sockets.
I wonder if some of the ones you ended up with didn't get the heat treatment or whatever other hardening steps they go through. Maybe a mistake in the factory, they put chrome on a batch that hadn't been through heat treatment.

 

[DSLTRK]

How many of them did you use? And did they all have this same problem? I'm just wondering if it's only a few out of this order that deformed like this, and did the others hold up.
I agree there's no excuse for this, and not even one in a set should be bad, and the quality of all of them are in question. But like other people here have said, I have Williams sockets and never had a problem with them, and think they're the equal of Snap-on sockets.
I wonder if some of the ones you ended up with didn't get the heat treatment or whatever other hardening steps they go through. Maybe a mistake in the factory, they put chrome on a batch that hadn't been through heat treatment.

I used the 1/4" dr 5/16" deep, same issue. Used on a #10 tek screw head for a chassis ground.

I also wanted to test the 1/2" dr 3/4", same issue with the deformation on the edge of the broach. This was with a new, flanged grade 8 bolt.

 

[Fluelikesymptoms]

They are on their way back as a return to get my money back. I'm getting Snap-On.



Received them on Sept 30th, used them Sept 30th.
They have date codes of 2017 2018 and 2019. The year didn't seem to effect the steel wear-ability.

Williams CS was awesome and they didn't mention that this was a common issue/unusual or defective. She simply apologized and explained the distributor would contact them for a RMA label once I initiated a return.

I asked if she knew these were manufactured differently than Snap-On and she didn't know.

I wish the results I had were better because these sockets truly are a beautiful, well forged set.

Thank you for responding with that info. Having just got home from work I'm not gonna go digging around (we get company provided APEX sockets, worth considering as a replacement for your williams) but now I feel the need to check my sockets for abnormal wear I could have over looked lol.

Shortly after my previous comment I realized I forgot to mention that I primarily have used my 3/8 and 1/2 William's sockets. My 1/2 are the William's Taiwan, which I suppose could be a variable worth considering.

I am a tad curious to how those William's chrome's would have behaved had you used them with an impact lol

 

[cherrybomb]

I've had good results using my Williams USA sockets on breaker or ratchet,never would I use chrome on impact.I can only believe quality control issue.

 

[markeric]

I know this is an old thread, but thought I would chime in. I bought 8 sets of Williams USA socket a year or two back. 3/8 SAE and Metric and 1/4 SAE and metric, shallow and deeps of each. The sockets I got must have been in between production runs, because half the sockets had stampings with a Williams logo, and half had "Williams" stamped in plain text, and I don't mean the 1/4" or 3/8" sets were different, sockets on the same rails were mixed together. I minor issue perhaps, but my OCD got the best of me. I also thought the stamped sizes were a little hard to read, and the stamping was inconsistent, some sockets had more faint stamping and on some they were stamped so hard the steel around the characters protruded slightly. Can't speak to any softness as I sent them all back. Its a shame cause the machining was fantastic, broaching, all of that.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm wondering if the metric sizes are having the same issue, or if was just a bad run of SAE sizes? Good to see the stepped up to the plate w/o a hassle.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I haven’t had this issue on any sockets except the Sears Chinese Craftsman. Williams that I have are great.

 

[getbentMUSTARD]

Just to add for anyone interested I have a full line up of the 3/8 dr sae and I don't have these deforming issues either. mine were bought around summer of last year from toolsdelivered and are us made as well. My impacts from them have some wear but that's to be expected.

 

[Joe Mamma]

Just to add for anyone interested I have a full line up of the 3/8 dr sae and I don't have these deforming issues either. mine were bought around summer of last year from toolsdelivered and are us made as well. My impacts from them have some wear but that's to be expected.

Thanks for posting your experiences. I'm just curious (and for the benefit of others), do yours have the Williams logo or do they simply say "Williams" in plain text?

Joe Mamma

 

[measuredtwice]

I remember reading a post here that claimed a Williams rep stated the sockets were hardened to a lesser degree, which was written to indicate a VERY small degree. That has proven to be off in my case.

Please post a link to this statement. I don't believe they hardened to a lesser degree and I don't believe that someone with the knowledge and authorization to speak for Williams would make that claim. It sounds like false rumors that spread on the internet. This is what they told me.

"I just received an email from the product manager. The questions you had regarding material, hardness, and finishing is proprietary information. I apologize that I don't have anything more to share."

 

[measuredtwice]

Thanks for posting your experiences. I'm just curious (and for the benefit of others), do yours have the Williams logo or do they simply say "Williams" in plain text?

Joe Mamma

I bought 3/8 Williams USA made socket sets dated 2020 that had the logo (metric) and plain text (SAE). So as of 2020 both were available... at least in those sets.