Williams vs Wright Wrenches

[American Locomotive]

I bought a set of Wright wrenches and returned them. When I tested the open end on a bolt it had more play then my other wrenches. They look and feel nice though. My last set I bought were Williams, which are made by Snap On but are about half the price. And made in USA. I have way to many wrench sets - SnapOn, Milwaukee, GearWrench, Williams and Mac Tools. There is a test on wrenches on YouTube that is excellent and the Mac and GearWrench did very well in the test.

WrightGrip open ends are slightly looser than traditional wrenches because they are designed to engage the flats of the bolt or nut. The jaws are very carefully shaped to make that happen, but they will not fit as snugly on some bolts as you'd like.

The WG2.0s open ends are good enough to snap Grade 8 bolts without spreading or slipping.

As far as availibity goes, Harry J Epstein (which is a garage journal favorite) seems to have individual wright wrenches in stock if you want to build your own kit. I don't think it's any more expensive than buying the kit.

 

[liliysdad]

As far as availibity goes, Harry J Epstein (which is a garage journal favorite) seems to have individual wright wrenches in stock if you want to build your own kit. I don't think it's any more expensive than buying the kit.

Epstein has the full 15pc set in stock, but the price is $75+ higher than the Palmac cost.

We will see what Palmac says today about lead time.

 

[Samuel D]

WrightGrip open ends are slightly looser than traditional wrenches because they are designed to engage the flats of the bolt or nut. The jaws are very carefully shaped to make that happen, but they will not fit as snugly on some bolts as you'd like.

Right. I haven’t used Wright spanners, but a major advantage of Flank Drive-style features (e.g. Wright Grip, Wera Hex Plus for Allen keys, etc.) is that they greatly reduce the harm of a sloppy fit – whether because the wrench dimensions or, more commonly, the fastener dimensions, are slightly off.

The Wera Hex Plus keys really brought this home for me. I was disappointed with their sloppy fit at first. But after using them for many hard jobs, I grew confident in their operation. They barely wear and the fasteners hardly ever get rounded out. And because there’s plenty of clearance, fitting them on a fastener, even blind, is fast and easy.

 

[Samuel D]

Really interesting to me how much sthicker and longer most US wrenches seem to be compared to European designs like the classic DIN wrench. Though I guess the raised panel craftsmans are similarly sized?

It is interesting, isn’t it.

Maybe part of the explanation is that the DIN classics are very old patterns by now, and since they were conceived, common bolts have become considerably stronger; but because German companies tend to be traditional and standards-bound by culture (management has great interest in what the engineers say and might even be former engineers), they keep making the same thing. Whereas some American companies would come out with a novel design every week if they thought it might be profitable.

Another thing I have wondered about, in my ignorance, is why European, American, and Asian spanners don’t scale sensibly with the intended torque. That is, a 17 mm spanner, for example, is not greatly longer than a 10 mm one, despite being used for 5–10 × greater torque.

 

[CoronadoBruin]

Another (late) vote for Wright, but admittedly I am not familiar with the wrenches from Williams. Wright open ends are damn near preternatural in their ability to grip, and tests show they have a slight edge on Snap-On. Their full polish line only goes to 1-1/4", and I often needed larger wrenches (retired from construction), though, obviously, full polish doesn't matter a whit in construction, and Wright wrenches have 12-point box ends and not 6-point, which I much prefer (I'm assuming most people here prefer the 12s for their lines of work). I would prefer a longer wrench but the better feel in the hand is an acceptable trade-off. My wrench use at the end of my career was less than 5% of my wrench use from 40-50 years ago. Everything is impact and socket now in my line of work.

ASD will mar some nuts and bolt heads so be careful. Use your older wrenches for those instances. Again, that never mattered to me.

I have two complete sets (SAE, 17 pieces, and metric, 19 pieces) of Wright full-polish ASD wrenches and couldn't be happier. I have some Proto full-polish combos with 6-point box and larger 12-point and am happy with those, as well.

Proto ASD wrenches are worth a look and have an aggressive grip. I wish my larger Protos had the ASD.

 

[Ilikeike]

Well damn. I will have to email them tomorrow and see what the prognosis is.

May wind up starting this search all over again..

Summit Racing
Where I got mine a couple years ago, shows in stock.
Free shipping.

 

[Bubba Fett]

If a prospective buyer is unsure of which brand to go with, I'd suggest buying a single in a size that is often used, from two or three brands, and see which one you like best.

 

[liliysdad]

Well, just canceled that order. Best case scenario was a manufacturer shipment date of the end of September. Everyone who has them in stock is almost $100 higher than Palmac....but it is what it is.

Of course, after reading the comments in this thread posted since I ordered, one has to wonder if the indefinite backorder is not divine intervention. The concern with the aggressive Wright open end is concerning to me....and those Proto full polish are good looking wrenches...I also just stumbled across the USAG wrenches and am intrigued.

This should not be this difficult.

 

[tamaraw]

To clear up some confusion:

I haven’t used Wright spanners, but a major advantage of Flank Drive-style features (e.g. Wright Grip, Wera Hex Plus for Allen keys, etc.) is that they greatly reduce the harm of a sloppy fit – whether because the wrench dimensions or, more commonly, the fastener dimensions, are slightly off.

Wright Grip and Flank Drive+ open ends are very aggressive toothed designs that work by biting into a fastener and leaving marks.

ASD will mar some nuts and bolt heads so be careful. Use your older wrenches for those instances. Again, that never mattered to me.

I have two complete sets (SAE, 17 pieces, and metric, 19 pieces) of Wright full-polish ASD wrenches and couldn't be happier.

ASD is the specific Proto/SBD design, not a general term. There is no such thing as "Wright ASD".

Proto ASD does the opposite of the Wright Grip and is designed to not mar fasteners. This involves a convex surface to focus force on the flats of a fastener rather than the corners as in a traditional flat jaw wrench. Example courtesy of Facom, another SBD brand:

 

[tamaraw]

Another thing I have wondered about, in my ignorance, is why European, American, and Asian spanners don’t scale sensibly with the intended torque. That is, a 17 mm spanner, for example, is not greatly longer than a 10 mm one, despite being used for 5–10 × greater torque.

Clearance, for one. Applications for 17mm wrenches don't always have 5-10x the room around them that 10mm applications do.

Also, smaller fasteners are more likely to be over-torqued and require proportionately more break-away torque.

 

[liliysdad]

To clear up some confusion:



Wright Grip and Flank Drive+ open ends are very aggressive toothed designs that work by biting into a fastener and leaving marks.








ASD is the specific Proto/SBD design, not a general term. There is no such thing as "Wright ASD".

Proto ASD does the opposite of the Wright Grip and is designed to not mar fasteners. This involves a convex surface to focus force on the flats of a fastener rather than the corners as in a traditional flat jaw wrench. Example courtesy of Facom, another SBD brand:

This is very helpful. Thank you!!

 

[American Locomotive]

Well, just canceled that order. Best case scenario was a manufacturer shipment date of the end of September. Everyone who has them in stock is almost $100 higher than Palmac....but it is what it is.

Of course, after reading the comments in this thread posted since I ordered, one has to wonder if the indefinite backorder is not divine intervention. The concern with the aggressive Wright open end is concerning to me....and those Proto full polish are good looking wrenches...I also just stumbled across the USAG wrenches and am intrigued.

This should not be this difficult.

@tamaraw 's post is not entirely accurate. Both WG2.0 and FD+ have specially shaped convex jaws to engage the flats of fasteners. Snap-On and Wright added some serrations in addition to that convex shape to give a little extra bite. You can see in the below picture how the wrench jaw is convex to avoid hitting the fastener corners.

Secondly, these wrenches are also not destroying fasteners (be it FD+ or WG2.0), like a pair of vise-grips would. They sometimes put little marks that you can barely even catch with a finger nail. They are really inconsequential. A half second with a brush would make them disappear. ...and like, does it matter? We have people complaining about some marks on a nut or bolt that's already covered and rust, oil and grime. If we were talking about visible chrome plated nuts/bolts on a million-dollar Concours-Level vehicle, yeah, you'd have a point. But would you be wrench on those fasteners with an open-end wrench? Probably not.

I found a couple of rusty bolts on my Tacoma and gave it a go. The nut on the intake manifold was very stuck, and as you can see, the wrench wasn't even perpendicular to the nut, and it still took it out without rounding the corners off. They're almost impossible to see on the first bolt, and the second it just put some lines in it. They're not even measurably indented.

 

[CoronadoBruin]

To clear up some confusion:



Wright Grip and Flank Drive+ open ends are very aggressive toothed designs that work by biting into a fastener and leaving marks.








ASD is the specific Proto/SBD design, not a general term. There is no such thing as "Wright ASD".

Proto ASD does the opposite of the Wright Grip and is designed to not mar fasteners. This involves a convex surface to focus force on the flats of a fastener rather than the corners as in a traditional flat jaw wrench. Example courtesy of Facom, another SBD brand:

You know way too much about this I use ASD as a general term for any anti-slip design, I had no idea that it was company-specific

 

[Bubba Fett]

This should not be this difficult.

I say it's good to still have USA-made pro-level tools to choose from.

 

[Firebrick43]

You know way too much about this I use ASD as a general term for any anti-slip design, I had no idea that it was company-specific

Do worry about it, every one else uses ASD as anti slip design just like everyone calls facial tissues Kleenex.

Except Tamaraw it seems.

 

[Wamsutta]

Well, just canceled that order. Best case scenario was a manufacturer shipment date of the end of September. Everyone who has them in stock is almost $100 higher than Palmac....but it is what it is.

Of course, after reading the comments in this thread posted since I ordered, one has to wonder if the indefinite backorder is not divine intervention. The concern with the aggressive Wright open end is concerning to me....and those Proto full polish are good looking wrenches...I also just stumbled across the USAG wrenches and am intrigued.

This should not be this difficult.

The Proto ASD is not as aggressive as the Snap-on FD+ and the Wrightgrip. The Proto is livable, but still not as fast as a conventional smooth open end on fasteners that are not rounded. You might consider the Hazet 600N or the Stahlwille 14 series if you don't need an open end intended for rounded off hex fasteners.

 

[DRider]

WrightGrip open ends are slightly looser than traditional wrenches because they are designed to engage the flats of the bolt or nut. The jaws are very carefully shaped to make that happen, but they will not fit as snugly on some bolts as you'd like.

The WG2.0s open ends are good enough to snap Grade 8 bolts without spreading or slipping.

As far as availibity goes, Harry J Epstein (which is a garage journal favorite) seems to have individual wright wrenches in stock if you want to build your own kit. I don't think it's any more expensive than buying the kit.

I didn't know that. I like the looks and feel of them.

 

[DRider]

I don't think I will be buying another hand tool for the rest of my life. I overdid it and have more than what I will ever need. Five sets of combination wrenches, 100 screwdrivers, 17 ratchets, a ridiculous number of pliers and sockets.

 

[AEAdam]

This has been an interesting thread. It's also (not a criticism) a lot of discussion about a pretty narrow use case. Open ends, when quality, can be fast and convenient. But you don't need the best to satisfy that demand (fast and convenient). If you are using an open end because you have no choice, you MIGHT need a thin one. Or you MIGHT need a strong one. Hard to tell from here. Strong and thin narrows the field significantly. Like strength, I'd say there's a line one can draw. In the TTC test, they used 16mm or 5/8" wrenches. I think the line is 8mm thick. Anything over 8mm isn't thin. Anything under 8mm, is.

Otherwise, open end strength is the wrong use case and wrong criteria to use to select a "general purpose" combination wrench. All the wrenches in the top 10 in the tests would probably provide outstanding service for most tasks. In general, I'd repeat my advice: choose tight fitting, and LONG. There are a bunch of wrenches that fit that criteria in a wide price range. Pick a brand, pick a finish, hard to go wrong.

Back to the original question: given the choice between Williams USA and Wright I'd pick Williams because it's tight fitting and long. Open up the choices, the Kabo wrenches look good on paper. That's Icon and most likely Williams Taiwan. Not sure about Bluepoint or other brands. The German wrenches are excellent, but tend to be shorter and really thin.

For a guy working on older cars, I might recommend Icon, and 2 sets. That could be the most utility. IF I were encountering a lot of rusty stuff, I think I might again choose a metric set of Icons and beat my mm wrenches onto SAE hardware and plan to replace them every 6 months (or whatever).

 

[Firebrick43]

This has been an interesting thread. It's also (not a criticism) a lot of discussion about a pretty narrow use case. Open ends, when quality, can be fast and convenient. But you don't need the best to satisfy that demand (fast and convenient). If you are using an open end because you have no choice, you MIGHT need a thin one. Or you MIGHT need a strong one. Hard to tell from here. Strong and thin narrows the field significantly. Like strength, I'd say there's a line one can draw. In the TTC test, they used 16mm or 5/8" wrenches. I think the line is 8mm thick. Anything over 8mm isn't thin. Anything under 8mm, is.

Otherwise, open end strength is the wrong use case and wrong criteria to use to select a "general purpose" combination wrench. All the wrenches in the top 10 in the tests would probably provide outstanding service for most tasks. In general, I'd repeat my advice: choose tight fitting, and LONG. There are a bunch of wrenches that fit that criteria in a wide price range. Pick a brand, pick a finish, hard to go wrong.

Back to the original question: given the choice between Williams USA and Wright I'd pick Williams because it's tight fitting and long. Open up the choices, the Kabo wrenches look good on paper. That's Icon and most likely Williams Taiwan. Not sure about Bluepoint or other brands. The German wrenches are excellent, but tend to be shorter and really thin.

For a guy working on older cars, I might recommend Icon, and 2 sets. That could be the most utility. IF I were encountering a lot of rusty stuff, I think I might again choose a metric set of Icons and beat my mm wrenches onto SAE hardware and plan to replace them every 6 months (or whatever).

Your still stuck on one sample being .05 MM over your imaginary thick/thin line. For reference that is 0.0019"

In 25 years of wrenching I have never said "if only my wrench was 0.002" thinner with any mainline brand.

I have never heard someone else say that.

Has anyone here that actually owns a wright wrench said that to themselves?

I have had wrenches to thick before for some machine tool nuts. But anything other than a snap on slim line LTA/LTAM series wrench was to thick as well. Some guys would get a wrench out of the crib or from a cheap import set and held to the belt grinder or blanchard grinder depending on how nice they want it to look.


Second. How often do you use a 16mm wrench? I almost never do.

I use 9/16 and 14mm all the time, and as documented above, the wright 14mm is actually thinner than the snap on. So now which set do you pick??????

The truth is, it doesn't matter, for either size. If you need a thin wrench you buy thin wrench set or one for the sizes commonly encountered. 0.002" of an inch is not going to make a difference.

 

[liliysdad]

Well....to recap this thread...I ended up ordering a set of satin Wrights, just because I could get them quickly and they were quite inexpensive. I do intend to try the others as I continue to upgrade my box. I am a bit concerned with the possibility of bolt head marring...but they seem to be such well regarded wrenches I had to try them.

 

[bob15]

To me, the fastener marring is being blown out of proportion on GJ. Unless you are really putting a lot of torque on a fastener, it will not mar up anything. I have seen more marring done via boxed ends of wrenches more than the open ends.

You will like the Wright wrenches.

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

The truth is, it doesn't matter, for either size. If you need a thin wrench you buy thin wrench set or one for the sizes commonly encountered. 0.002" of an inch is not going to make a difference.

I’m with you on this. For situations where I need a thin open end I don’t use a combo, I use a Tappet wrench. I use mostly sae so these are readily available on the used market. If I start to use more metric I plan to buy this set or something similar: https://capritools.com/shop/super-thin-flat-wrenches-metric/

 

[KnurledNut]

I don't think I will be buying another hand tool for the rest of my life. I overdid it and have more than what I will ever need. Five sets of combination wrenches, 100 screwdrivers, 17 ratchets, a ridiculous number of pliers and sockets.

I said the same thing a decade ago.
The struggle is real.
This is the most expensive, free forum.

 

[GrantCee]

To me, the fastener marring is being blown out of proportion on GJ.

The only topic that's more overblown is how "hard" satin wrenches are to clean. Seriously, both satin and polished come completely clean with a single swipe of a rag. Not seeing the difficulty there.

 

[liliysdad]

The only topic that's more overblown is how "hard" satin wrenches are to clean. Seriously, both satin and polished come completely clean with a single swipe of a rag. Not seeing the difficulty there.

My desire for polished was based solely on aesthetics…I think theylook snazzier.

 

[American Locomotive]

My Satin Wrights seem clean up easily. I did notice if you use a "linty" cloth to wipe them down, you will see bits of lint caught on the wrench, but they just wipe off with your hands.

I'm actually becoming a big fan of industrial/satin finish tools in general. I think it feels better and seems less slippery than than full-polished chrome. ...and speaking of "feels better", once again, I want to say the Wrights (in satin finish) feel great in the hand. I find myself going out of my way to use them instead of sockets (when possible) because they are a joy to use.

I can't deny that a full polish tool looks bling, but the satin finish looks great too. To me the satin finish appears more "ready to work". Like "These tools are meant to fix some giant machine and then be thrown in a tool bag with a million other tools, and do it again and again every day"

 

[merkyworks]

This is the most expensive, free forum.

almost makes me wish I never found this place, almost haha

 

[GrantCee]

To me the satin finish appears more "ready to work". Like "These tools are meant to fix some giant machine and then be thrown in a tool bag with a million other tools, and do it again and again every day"

Satin finish be like: "don't say SIR to me — I work for a living!"

 

[AEAdam]

Your still stuck on one sample being .05 MM over your imaginary thick/thin line. For reference that is 0.0019"

In 25 years of wrenching I have never said "if only my wrench was 0.002" thinner with any mainline brand.

I have never heard someone else say that.

Has anyone here that actually owns a wright wrench said that to themselves?

I have had wrenches to thick before for some machine tool nuts. But anything other than a snap on slim line LTA/LTAM series wrench was to thick as well. Some guys would get a wrench out of the crib or from a cheap import set and held to the belt grinder or blanchard grinder depending on how nice they want it to look.


Second. How often do you use a 16mm wrench? I almost never do.

I use 9/16 and 14mm all the time, and as documented above, the wright 14mm is actually thinner than the snap on. So now which set do you pick??????

The truth is, it doesn't matter, for either size. If you need a thin wrench you buy thin wrench set or one for the sizes commonly encountered. 0.002" of an inch is not going to make a difference.

8mm isn't imaginary, its a std nut height. Looking at the ASME wrench spec. Open end for a 16mm is 9.4mm max. I think that's pretty thick. Snap On is 7.3mm.

Never had any trouble with jam nuts? Control links? Tie rods? I have em on my lawnmower.! Screwed with them last weekend. Didn't need anything too special, but needed more than a tappet wrench. I have Snap On wrenches and they worked fine, but they are on the thin side.

Choosing thin is a good idea for a lot of reasons. If a manufacturer is confident enough to make thin tools, e.g. thin walled sockets, extra long ratchets and wrenches, then they probably are confident in their materials and processing. It's one attribute that could indicate a quality tool.

Also, if firms like Hazet make thin wrenches, they may be doing that for a reason. Making thicker tools is easier on the manufacturer. Stresses are lower.

Not trying to talk anyone into anything. And yeah, this is pretty far in the weeds.

 

[Firebrick43]

8mm isn't imaginary, its a std nut height. Looking at the ASME wrench spec. Open end for a 16mm is 9.4mm max. I think that's pretty thick. Snap On is 7.3mm.

Never had any trouble with jam nuts? Control links? Tie rods? I have em on my lawnmower.! Screwed with them last weekend. Didn't need anything too special, but needed more than a tappet wrench. I have Snap On wrenches and they worked fine, but they are on the thin side.

Choosing thin is a good idea for a lot of reasons. If a manufacturer is confident enough to make thin tools, e.g. thin walled sockets, extra long ratchets and wrenches, then they probably are confident in their materials and processing. It's one attribute that could indicate a quality tool.

Also, if firms like Hazet make thin wrenches, they may be doing that for a reason. Making thicker tools is easier on the manufacturer. Stresses are lower.

Not trying to talk anyone into anything. And yeah, this is pretty far in the weeds.

You didn’t read or compute a thing I said.

Not about the .002”. Get a .002” feeler gauge out and see how .002” thicker than 8mm is going to matter.

Not about the snap on LTA/LTAM wrenches for thin bolts/jamb nuts

Not about variances in thickness from the YouTube channels results mention multiple times but either ignored or not comprehended,

You are completely stuck on .002” on one wrench size of one sample for a wrench on a YouTube channel.

Is that YouTube channel infallible and the end all of all authority on the subject because of one measurement of one sample 16mm wrench?

Did you even measure your own snap on???

I did, it was considerably different (thicker than) than the results he got as previously posted and ignored?
And my wright measured considerably thinner than his did.

I don’t know why I am arguing with someone that can only regurgitate Torque Test Channel. **** I got drug down to his level.

 

[AEAdam]

Is that YouTube channel infallible and the end all of all authority on the subject because of one measurement of one sample 16mm wrench?

Both companies provide measurements for their products on their websites which agree with the Torque Test Channel. I have no idea why you got the measurements you did and, with respect, it’s not relevant to the thread. Please, let’s move on.

 

[Firebrick43]

Both companies provide measurements for their products on their websites which agree with the Torque Test Channel. I have no idea why you got the measurements you did and, with respect, it’s not relevant to the thread. Please, let’s move on.

No, they don't agree, at all, especially snap ons which are more just overall profile dimensions in nice neat even numbers.



As mentioned previously, the reason I got different numbers is because its a forged product. Forging dies wear, dimensions get bigger as the dies wear. At some point they deem the die worn out and its replaced reverting back to a smaller dimension. The inside nut engaging part of the wrench is broached so its dimensions should be much more stable if the machine operators are following their quality plan.

You are correct, its not at all relevant to the thread, which is why several of us kept wondering why you were so hung up on it.

This is a forum, an open place of discussion, in particular about garages and tools. A discussion requires participation in more ways that blindly regurgitating what any fool can put on youtube, or it isn't a discussion.

 

[roofdweller49]

Bit of a late reply, but I really like my Proto ASD wrenches. Nice shape in the hand, perfectly functional, and affordable. Default finish is a practical satin chrome but there are also oxide (what I have) and polished chrome options.

Another plus is that they are pretty easily available at lots of industrial places in the US and don't seem to go on long-term backorder like other brands. Zoro with a 20% off coupon is the best consumer deal I have seen.

Show your new tool arrivals

Just a few things from HF. Added the glue gun to my growing 20V Bauer line of tools. Tried it our last night and it works just fine. Thick knee pad feels better under my old knees then the thinner ones I have. Haven't used the tester yet. They even had the gloves in stock. Last two times I...

www.garagejournal.com

Can't seem to get a 10-19mm set in polished chrome ? I guess I can live with satin - $169 and 20% off Zoro is a good price

Or I could just skip USA made and get a USAG set from ultimate garage...

 

[seber]

My Satin Wrights seem clean up easily. I did notice if you use a "linty" cloth to wipe them down, you will see bits of lint caught on the wrench, but they just wipe off with your hands.

I'm actually becoming a big fan of industrial/satin finish tools in general. I think it feels better and seems less slippery than than full-polished chrome. ...and speaking of "feels better", once again, I want to say the Wrights (in satin finish) feel great in the hand. I find myself going out of my way to use them instead of sockets (when possible) because they are a joy to use.

I can't deny that a full polish tool looks bling, but the satin finish looks great too. To me the satin finish appears more "ready to work". Like "These tools are meant to fix some giant machine and then be thrown in a tool bag with a million other tools, and do it again and again every day"

The only wrenches I ever found hard to clean were raised panel. Between that and the sharp edge digging into my oily hands, I dumped those decades ago.

 

[CoronadoBruin]

Can't seem to get a 10-19mm set in polished chrome ? I guess I can live with satin - $169 and 20% off Zoro is a good price

Or I could just skip USA made and get a USAG set from ultimate garage...

Wright has a 15-piece full polish metric set (952, sizes 7mm - 22mm, missing 20mm) that is between $200 and $210 at Palmac, Haus of Tools, and eio.com, and Palmac and EIO with free delivery. That ain't too bad.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

Off topic but if you can swing it Snap on FD+ SAE set are nice to work with, $477

 

[tamaraw]

Wouldn't be a real garage journal thread without someone telling OP to "just buy $nap-On".

On the other end of the spectrum, Martin is another affordable USA option, not sure what their lead time looks like though.

 

[GrantCee]

Wouldn't be a real garage journal thread without someone telling OP to "just buy $nap-On".

Bonus points for "you can find a Snap-On set for $50 if you keep your eyes open".

 

[liliysdad]

Bonus points for "you can find a Snap-On set for $50 if you keep your eyes open".

I buy a LOT of used Truck brand tools....and get some ridiculous deals.

Even I know that I am money and time ahead not chasing cheap Snap On wrenches.