Wilton 400S Vise - Damaged Value

[dabrian99]

Hi All - Found what I believe is a Wilton 400S at an estate auction that has some damage to the jaw support on the static part (see pix). Appears relatively intact on one side but clearly damaged on the other. What I am trying to figure out is what is a reasonable price to pay for something with damage like this assuming it works as expected otherwise?

This will be a personal-use vise but don't want to pay top $$ for something with obvious damage. From what I see online the price of these can easily go into the hundreds many times over.

I would welcome any fact-checking/advice too on the model/age! Stamped 101157/101158 from what I can tell in the first pic.

Thanks!

 

[Shiftless]

I hate it when you see freshly applied spray paint over everything, handles, nose, etc. Often fresh paint is applied to cover cracks or bondo, or other damage. It’s obvious that somebody has been messing with the pins that hold in the main nut. Look at the damage to the casting and the protruding pin on the other side. What’s up with the 2 extra holes in the vise body where I drew the arrows?

If you have a chance to test that vise and see that it smoothly runs in and out over the whole range of motion, I would pay maybe $250 but of course try for less. Fresh spray paint isn’t hard to remove in order to clean up the handles, etc. Or just use it as-is.

.

 

[dabrian99]

Agree on the hack paint job. Shiftless, what casting damage do you see aside from the jaw support? Is there any reason for someone to mess with those pins outside of a repair scenario (i.e. disassembly for a truly awful paint job )?

Problem here is I can't even see this in person let alone test it.

 

[Shiftless]

It’s rather minor but see the red arrow? Somebody was pounding there probably with an oversized punch or huge nail or broken screwdriver or ??? to try and remove the pins that secure the main nut. (If that area was unmolested, there would be a neat round hole in the cast iron tailpiece.) WHY? We may never know, but to me it raises a red flag. Might indicate something you’ll have to fix or maybe not. Not a deal killer to me.

BTW, is it just my screen, or do the 2 pictures you posted show different color paint? One looks gray, the other looks grayish green.

.

 

[exmaxima1]

Many people do not consider that missing chunk as "damage" and still ask ridiculous prices on their Wiltons. There's a local listing that reads,

"1940s Heavy Duty Machinist Vise for bending metal. Made from forged steel, this is a rare vise. Well cared for and maintained (no cracks). 3.5" grip"

I sent her a message conveying that the missing chunk below the rear jaw was indeed a CRACK, and likely broke because the vise IS NOT forged steel and plain cast iron breaks like that. Still listed (and relisted many times) for $550 for over 3 months now. That said, I would not pay more than $100 for the OP's Wilton 400S with the cracked jaw.

 

[Craftfab]

I would not bid anything if you cannot put your hands on it first. I got burned on an auction for same model a few years ago. It was first Wilton I was able to get and they were hens teeth in my area so I bought it sight unseen. I thought it was just dirty but in good shape. When I went to pick it up, it was coated in paint and grime and was cracked in same spot as your photo (which is not terribly uncommon when someone hammers down on something in the jaws, especially if the jaw bolts are loose). For me, just too many items that are off on that one.

 

[Shiftless]

I paid $100 for a Wilton bullet base in that size.
I think he could pay more than that and still get what most of us would call a good deal. Not a “you ****” of course, but nevertheless “good” deal.

 

[dabrian99]

Shiftless, now that I look at it the color does look off between the 2 pics but I'll chalk that up to lighting maybe?

Craftfab, was reading up on some other threads where the broken jaw supports on 400s are just flattened out a little and pressed back into service. Not a deal breaker for me since I'm not trying to acquire something to flip but certainly greatly reduces what I'm willing to pay.

I'll keep an eye on it and post back what it sells for. If I can get it at "you ****", I'll roll the dice...I looked at the listing again and there is a preview day but that means driving 35 miles and back.

I caught the vintage tool restoration disease and get a little overzealous sometimes. Do I need another vise? Nope! But damn they're cool.

 

[crguy]

I just bought one like that for $35. Broken jaw support on the back jaw, but the rest of the vise is in great unmolested condition. Will be parting it out. Some sellers are asking crazy prices for vises these days.

 

[Shiftless]

Old vises are indeed cool. I too like the Wilton bullets.
If you have the time, go ahead and go to the preview. That will give you a much better idea of the true condition of that vise. Crank it open all the way and then closed. Examine all sides and underneath for damage or indication of past damage that is repaired.
An estate auction with that vise might just have other interesting tools you might want. If you have the time, go ahead and make the drive. It should be entertaining.

 

[Davefr]

The broken ledge is very common and doesn't really affect it's use as a work holding tool. It obviously comes from beating on the jaws.

Since the vise is being auctioned, your competition will likely not even notice the broken ledge and bid it up to full market value. However you never really know at an auction. Anything <$200 is probably a decent deal if the rest of it is OK. Check Ebay sold listings but I'm guessing market price is around $300+. I hate those Krylon paint jobs. Look it over very closely.

When you want Wilton, you generally have to pay "The Wilton Tax".

 

[slowtwitch73]

I put one on Ebay for what I thought was crazy money.. 400$ and it sold in a day. Takes two to tango.

 

[thehorse13]

This is the one exception where I will buy a vise with busted/cracked/repairs. I see this as a retail parts vise that can easily bring you a handsome profit if you list the good parts on Ebay. There are a lot of red flags on this vise that you cannot possibly sort out by looking at pictures so if you approach it as a wholesale purchase for retail parts resale then you're good.

Personally I would not be any deeper in that vise than 50 bucks. That's with the buyer's premium and taxes. Also keep in mind that I am notorious cheap skate.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

I hate those Krylon paint jobs. Look it over very closely.

 

[dabrian99]

I will likely go check it out in person at the preview. I have zero experience with Wilton bullets so need to do some research on how to test them/what to look for.

My “all-in” price I’m willing to pay includes auction premium, tax, and a new wire wheel to strip that sad paint job.

 

[Shiftless]

Speaking of stripping, my favorite method is soaking in hot Simple Green. Here is how I stripped a Chicago era bullet that had several rattle can paint jobs on it. Depending on the paint, it takes a few hours or maybe all day. Then just rinse the paint off under running water with one of those wire toothbrushes. Alternatively, you can use a pressure washer to remove the loosened paint.

I found an old crock pot at the local recycling center. (Free) It stays on my workbench.
Unless you live alone, don’t use the crock pot from the kitchen.

 

[Roberts210]

What SWMBO doesn't know, won't hurt her. Case in point--a ****** rebuild in the kitchen while SWMBO was out of town.



But ain't I thoughtful! I put down paper towels before setting the greasy trans down on one of the good chairs.
I've also de-greased parts in the kitchen sink. Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

 

[thehorse13]

What SWMBO doesn't know, won't hurt her. Case in point--a ****** rebuild in the kitchen while SWMBO was out of town.



But ain't I thoughtful! I put down paper towels before setting the greasy trans down on one of the good chairs.
I've also de-greased parts in the kitchen sink. Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

This is a fine way to get yourself hurt in my house. You're a brave man. lol.

 

[crguy]

What SWMBO doesn't know, won't hurt her. Case in point--a ****** rebuild in the kitchen while SWMBO was out of town.



But ain't I thoughtful! I put down paper towels before setting the greasy trans down on one of the good chairs.
I've also de-greased parts in the kitchen sink. Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

I can't imagine why you would even want to do that job in the house. My tools are all in the shop, the workbench is there, and no worry of getting it a little dirty, etc., etc.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Long ago I cleaned an entire Nichols mill in pieces in our kitchen sink while my wife was away ... one of those cheap stamped ss jobbies. The knee fell over at one point and almost pierced the ss.

I went to great lengths to cleanup after I was done.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

My wife is extremely tolerant, but I wouldn't chance that at all!

 

[dabrian99]

OP here with some updated pics from the auction preview! I took better pics and here are some overall impressions:

-There is a crack in the base that was repaired
-End Cap missing on back
-Better pics of the sheared off jaw support
-Dynamic jaw operates very smooth; no excessive slop and jaws close straight/tight.
-Jaw plates are loose - couldn't really tell if screws are just loose or if its stripped/etc
-Swivel mechanism works fine

Vice is currently bid at $85...any help establishing a "reasonable" price ceiling in this condition would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[slowtwitch73]

That is the ceiling imo... parts vise with not many good parts.

 

[dabrian99]

That is the ceiling imo... parts vise with not many good parts.

Thanks...have to agree at this point and I can pretty much guarantee it will run up even higher. Throw in a buyers premium and I'm out of my range as a notoriously cheap SOB.

 

[crguy]

Thanks...have to agree at this point and I can pretty much guarantee it will run up even higher. Throw in a buyers premium and I'm out of my range as a notoriously cheap SOB.

Has nothing to do with being cheap in this instance. That vise isn't worth $85 period.

 

[dabrian99]

Just to bring closure here the hammer price was $180 plus buyers premium of 15%.

Why? Because it’s a BULLET!!! /s

 

[slowtwitch73]

Whoa.

Wliton takes the prize for 'irrational exuberance'.

 

[Roberts210]

$180 was a stupid price to pay for that vise, but I've drug home worse and fixed 'em, but the price was right on the badly abused Wilton/S.O. I resurrected--I paid $35 for it.

One jaw insert was welded on and the other one was missing. The vise body had been welded to the swivel base.



But I cut and peeled off the welded insert.



Ground off the welds around the swivel base.



Bought new inserts, new swivel bolts, and a new S.O. badge and painted it.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Is there a 'back from the grave' thread? The vise above should be in it.

 

[crguy]

Just to bring closure here the hammer price was $180 plus buyers premium of 15%.

Why? Because it’s a BULLET!!! /s

I predict the buyer will regret ever bidding on that vise.

 

[thehorse13]

I'm seeing more and more of this irrational buying pattern with no end in sight. Someone really took a grenade here.

 

[crguy]

I'm seeing more and more of this irrational buying pattern with no end in sight. Someone really took a grenade here.

Yep, and really it's their own fault for not researching, looking carefully at pictures, asking questions, and bidding blindly at auctions.