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Wilton C1 - Undated?

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Jul 14, 2016
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I just picked this up for $30 (plus $25 in gas, 5 hours of driving, $15 for dinner and a $100 hotel room for the night... but as a bonus I saw some *beautiful* scenery). I think it's from the 60s based on the foot shape and paint color but I'm still learning all the little clues. I can't find a trace of a date stamp on the bottom of the slide, although I'll look again once I clean it up. I plan to do a full restoration, what do you guys recommend for paint? I really like the hammered green I've seen on a few, but a similar blue would probably suite me better. Or should I stick to an authentic red if that's the original paint color? How has that hammered green paint been holding up?
 

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sld961

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Even with the gas and hotel room, you got a good deal. Rustoleum Hammered Light Blue might be what you're looking for. That's what I used on mine. It's holding up well for me, but I don't do any heavy work with mine, and I'm usually careful not to bang it where it's painted.

The date stamp on my slide is very faint, but mine is from the 80s IIRC. Clean it up real well and look again.

Edit: here is mine in light blue.
90228d89332d931840e63630dbcd3bff.jpg
 
OP
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I think your C1 is a bit older, maybe mid 50's because it has Chicago cast on it instead of Schiller Park. Member autopts in post 5 of this thread, posted that Wilton moved to Schiller Park in 1957. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86615

Edit: Welcome to The Garage Journal

Thanks! Most of the ones I've seen from the 50s appear to have squared-off feet instead of rounded like this one. Rounded seemed to be common in the 40s and 60s? Any other clues I might look for to help date it?
 
OP
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Oooooo, that is pretty, glad to hear it's holding up well, did you put any clearcoats on top? I probably won't be *too* rough on mine... it's going to help restore a 1941 de Havilland Tiger Moth, primarily a wood and fabric airplane but with some metal bits ;)
 

exmaxima1

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I have a 1945 C1 that looks identical to yours. Its a first generation version. Later models only have have one pin holding the pipe jaws. If you have less than $200 into it, you did well:thumb-up
 
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OP
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Confirmed! I just found the 1945 year stamped into the base! That's pretty awesome :D

(and no, that's not a huge crack in it, just a dribble of black paint that gave me a heart attack!)
 

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Bottlecapdigger

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Oooooo, that is pretty, glad to hear it's holding up well, did you put any clearcoats on top? I probably won't be *too* rough on mine... it's going to help restore a 1941 de Havilland Tiger Moth, primarily a wood and fabric airplane but with some metal bits ;)

Once you get started on that tiger moth keep us updated with lots of pics, man how I would love to be in a group or club and help with a project like yours. BCD.
 
OP
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Once you get started on that tiger moth keep us updated with lots of pics, man how I would love to be in a group or club and help with a project like yours. BCD.

Will do! This was one of those opportunities that a rational person would realize is way beyond the realms of possibility or reason. But something about the airplane called to me, so I'm off on a great adventure! I have only two rules for the project.

First, nothing I do will prevent a future owner from reverting the aircraft to 100% original factory condition. This means no permanent modifications to original parts, and all original parts which are not used are kept with the airplane for future generations. Also, everything will be documented in *extreme* detail both during and after disassembly, as a reference for other restorers or future owners.

Second, if the project sits idle for 1 year with no meaningful progress made, no matter what the reason... it gets moved on to a new owner with the resources to properly finish the job. I deplore seeing people's dream airplanes rotting away in hangars (or outside!) because they ran out of money, time, or health to finish the project. That already happened to this airplane once before me but it won't happen again after me.

Other than that... it will be a rather unorthodox restoration. I don't need a museum-piece airplane that I'm too scared to fly in anything but perfect weather. I need a sturdy, reliable trainer that will teach me the skills to move on to flying more exciting aircraft, culminating hopefully with a Spitfire. So to that end, the restoration will take advantage of a lot of modern advances both for safety and reliability. The engine will be equipped with a full digital CHT/EGT setup, this means I'll be able to keep a close eye on its health and ideally spot problems as they develop, before parts are damaged beyond repair. The rear cockpit will have a glass panel, it will have GPS, ADS-B in and out, AoA, the works. It will even have a proper set of radios and radio navigation aids. Now, don't get me wrong, it's a Tiger Moth, 99% of your flying is done VFR with your head outside of the cockpit. But I live in the Pacific Northwest, we are well known for sudden and sometimes drastic and unpredictable changes in weather. Given the choice between having to land in a field (or forest) because the clouds rolled in and I was out of options, versus being able to make an emergency IFR approach in order to save my skin (and the airplane!) I'll take the latter. Likewise the structure... modern epoxy adhesives will supplement the old "nail it together and pray" means of construction. But I won't change the "spirit" of the airplane... it'll still use the unconventional British brake setup, instead of toe brakes as on modern aircraft, it'll still have the same weight and balance and roughly the same performance, etc. It should still be great fun to fly :)
 

bluebolt

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Nice score Imperfect! 1945 sounds right for that vise, I have not seen that date stamp in that area before!
 

sld961

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Oooooo, that is pretty, glad to hear it's holding up well, did you put any clearcoats on top? I probably won't be *too* rough on mine... it's going to help restore a 1941 de Havilland Tiger Moth, primarily a wood and fabric airplane but with some metal bits ;)
I did not put any clear coats on mine. 2 coats of self etching primer and 2 coats of paint.
 
OP
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Well, this thing has had a life. It's missing some parts and a few things a jury-rigged in interesting ways. Could someone with a C-1 do me a favor and check the screws used to hold the retaining ring in place? I think mine has had the holes bored out and tapped for larger bolts because at some point the ring was lost. The bolts are 3/8 x 16 national coarse.
 

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exmaxima1

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Well, this thing has had a life. It's missing some parts and a few things a jury-rigged in interesting ways. Could someone with a C-1 do me a favor and check the screws used to hold the retaining ring in place? I think mine has had the holes bored out and tapped for larger bolts because at some point the ring was lost. The bolts are 3/8 x 16 national coarse.

On my 1945 C1 just like yours, the thread is 10-32. Another interesting thing is that the screws are fillister head and there are matching counterbores in the retaining ring to fit them. Never see that on other Wilton retaining rings.
 
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KMScott

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Well, this thing has had a life. It's missing some parts and a few things a jury-rigged in interesting ways. Could someone with a C-1 do me a favor and check the screws used to hold the retaining ring in place? I think mine has had the holes bored out and tapped for larger bolts because at some point the ring was lost. The bolts are 3/8 x 16 national coarse.

Your vise has a couple areas that need attention. The horseshoe washer is especially needs attention. I added a drawing that I think is the right one but maybe the 2-1/4 diameter is the right one. The drawing is for a 2-5/8 x 3/16 wide washer. If I was repairing your vise I would locate the holes at 10 to 15 degrees rotated and drill and tap the new holes for a 10:32 thread. Then you can use the original washer. Yea it might look different but the washer will work fine. I hope the groove in your spindle is just a little wider then 3/16 which is the standard thickness and not all wore out. Wilton did go to a 1/4 wide on some washers like the 2-1/4 diameter ones.

I added a few pictures of how I repair swivel handles that might work for you, some guys use long 5/16 bolts and form the ends after adding a nut. I never repaired handles that way so I can not supply any photos.

I am curious to why the jaws have washers behind them, I think that might have something to do with the washer issue. Keep us posted on your repairs because we all learn new ways to repair these old vises. Good luck
 

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exmaxima1

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I am curious to why the jaws have washers behind them, I think that might have something to do with the washer issue.

The slide and the key look pretty rusted, and in fact the slide looks to have been brazed (look closely at the last pic and you see the brassy color peeking thru)---maybe the washers were needed to get the jaws to completely close.
 
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autopts

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I think your C1 is a bit older, maybe mid 50's because it has Chicago cast on it instead of Schiller Park. Member autopts in post 5 of this thread, posted that Wilton moved to Schiller Park in 1957. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86615

Edit: Welcome to The Garage Journal

That vintage C1 sir I believe was worth the effort as long as the both pipe jaws are in it. It might be very early even before dates were used prior 1945-46 That 2 pin design Wilton kept for many years to almost the 70's. The base was the only major change going to the higher 360 by mid 50's. Once that vise is cleaned it will make for a very nice restoration. I saw a C1 years ago where the guy panited it a Hammered gray and with the high polished luster he brought out with the handles, the rod ends holding on the pipe jaws as well as the jaws, it looked awesome.
 
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The slide and the key look pretty rusted, and in fact the slide looks to have been brazed (look closely at the last pic and you see the brassy color peeking thru)---maybe the washers were needed to get the jaws to completely close.

There's not much rust on anything but it does show signs of having rusted in the past. The red paint was definitely new-ish, couldn't find any traces of original colors beneath.

However, I think I found the reason for the washers behind the jaws. Looks like the screw has been welded back together, so perhaps it's a little shorter than original.

The bolt beneath the lock nut that was missing its handle was losing its head! Someone REALLY abused the hell out of this thing.

In addition, he peened over the pins that held the pipe jaws in place, so those had to be filed back to round to get out, and he also destroyed the slots (and the threads) of the jaw screws (luckily they came out easily).

I feel like I've rescued an abused dog from the shelter, lol!

Most of the parts are cleaned and stripped now, and the smaller bits are almost all bead blasted. I'll finish stripping and break out the wire wheel during the week, see how far that gets me before I give up and get out the big bead blast cabinet ;)
 

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OP
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Confirmed that the washer interior diameter posted by KMScott is correct for my C-1, but the washer thickness may be supposed to be 3/16. The depth of that ring in the spindle is at least 1/4" or larger all the way around.
 
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KMScott

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Here is a pic of my spec's after I repair wore out spindles. I like to see instant movement of the dynamic jaw support when turning the handle, little backlash. Tight tolerances require good grease and keeping the area clean. This repair takes a welder and a lathe. The washer is stock thickness. Keep us posted on your repair.
 

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454ragtop

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Just a quick suggestion, might want to slide the dynamic all the way into the static with it all apart and make sure the vise will close all the way. Hoping that the washers weren't installed because the jaws wouldn't meet because of a bent dynamic. DAMHIKT
 
OP
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Just a quick suggestion, might want to slide the dynamic all the way into the static with it all apart and make sure the vise will close all the way. Hoping that the washers weren't installed because the jaws wouldn't meet because of a bent dynamic. DAMHIKT

Good call. Once everything was stripped and mostly clean, I conducted a test fit as you suggested and found that the jaws indeed do not meet. I suppose a shim behind the jaws could rectify the problem. Or making a custom set of jaws to fit. Hmmm.
 

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exmaxima1

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Good call. Once everything was stripped and mostly clean, I conducted a test fit as you suggested and found that the jaws indeed do not meet. I suppose a shim behind the jaws could rectify the problem. Or making a custom set of jaws to fit. Hmmm.

Since I never reassembled my C1 after giving it a BLO finish, I slipped it together for a comparison shot. You can see that there is very little excess travel to compensate for a bent slide.

If the OP's vise were mine, I would likely grind/mill the front of the static jaw casting to get it to close further. Then I would assemble it and mill the jaw pockets so that they are again parallel. Hopefully that would solve the issue and make the vise functional again. The value of the vise with bent and brazed slide is already largely diminished, so almost anything you do would not further hurt it. Custom jaw inserts might seem easier at first, but if the pockets are not square they will not meet correctly--and bulky tapered inserts might look strange...

One more thing, the OP's pics show some evidence of the original pale green color in some of the nooks and crannies. Mine was also red when I bought it, but after stripping I had similar pale paint under it.
 

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454ragtop

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The Wilton I had with a bent slide was a tradesman. I straightened it in my 20T hyd. press, took all 20T. I'm hesitant to recommend that method if the slide has been brazed, may undo a previous repair.
 

jreb10

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Good call. Once everything was stripped and mostly clean, I conducted a test fit as you suggested and found that the jaws indeed do not meet. I suppose a shim behind the jaws could rectify the problem. Or making a custom set of jaws to fit. Hmmm.

Well, that situation sure looks familiar. I have an old C1 that lived many years in a tractor repair shop. It had been really worked over. In fact, the pipe jaw pins were bent in place, and I had to use my press to remove them.

I had the same problem with the jaws not fully closing and the dynamic jaw being slightly lower than the static jaw. I eventually figured out that the dynamic slide tube was slightly bent.

I am too afraid to try to straighten it. Instead I shimmed the front part of the dovetail with a brass strip. Not perfect but definitely better. And my aluminum jaw caps take up the rest of the gap.
 
OP
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Looks like they are 2 degrees off parallel vertically, 5/64" gap between the bottom edges of the jaws, and about the same difference in height of the bottom of the jaws. Next thing I'm going to do, once I finish fully cleaning the parts, is reassemble enough to test and measure the slide across the full range of motion. It moved pretty smoothly and easily before, with no obvious gaps, but it was covered in muck.
 

jreb10

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Since I was out in the workshop with my camera anyway, I snapped a couple shots of the shim underneath the dynamic.

IMG_1464 (Medium).JPG IMG_1462 (Medium).JPG

Although it does not show in the photo, there are actually two strips of thin brass secured by the screw. One is about 4 inches long, the other maybe an inch and a half. This type of shimming is a custom job. YMMV.
 
OP
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Ok, I've got a new horseshoe washer on the way. I'm also looking for a replacement swivel nut. I'd like an original one, even if it's pretty beat up. The outside hex is 7/8", carriage bolt is a 1/2" and the handle is only 3 1/2" long. Has anyone got one lying around?
 
OP
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Update: I had one of my trusted mechanic friends look at the vise today. He decided that even with a big press, he wouldn't want to risk trying to fix the bend. The bottom is perfectly straight, only the top is out of line, but the gap when the jaws are closed can be dealt with in other, less risky ways. That will be the direction I go then. One bummer, I've been unable to locate hammertone paint in anything other than metal colors (silvers, bronzes, etc). I'll have to order a few online and see what they look like. In the meantime I have gotten the new U-washer and it fits nicely. I'm going to get 'er back together as best I can, fashion some jaws that work, and call it good for now. I may revisit someday in the future...
 

sld961

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Update: I had one of my trusted mechanic friends look at the vise today. He decided that even with a big press, he wouldn't want to risk trying to fix the bend. The bottom is perfectly straight, only the top is out of line, but the gap when the jaws are closed can be dealt with in other, less risky ways. That will be the direction I go then. One bummer, I've been unable to locate hammertone paint in anything other than metal colors (silvers, bronzes, etc). I'll have to order a few online and see what they look like. In the meantime I have gotten the new U-washer and it fits nicely. I'm going to get 'er back together as best I can, fashion some jaws that work, and call it good for now. I may revisit someday in the future...
Try talking to a local hardware store to see if they can order it in. That's what I had to do. Saved on shipping.
 
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