Wilton C1 vs. Tradesman 1765

[Dimitriy]

I've been going back and forth trying to decide between keeping my recently restored vintage 1945 Wilton C1 vs. selling it and using the proceeds to purchase a brand new tradesman 1765. Other than the obvious differences such as jaw width and opening, are there any other advantages to the C class Wilton's that should keep me from making the leap?

Got bit by the vise bug and trying to learn as much as i could about them.

D

 

[G-ManBart]

The early C series aren't as good as the later C series, but they're great vises.

The Tradesmen line are good vises, but not great...terrible jaws on them (sintered metal).

I wouldn't sell a C1 to buy a 1765. All you really gain is some jaw width, and that means very little in what the vise can do. The pipe jaws are also much smaller on the 1765...not a big deal, but noticeable.

 

[Shiftless]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree with the G-man

If you really need a bigger opening capacity, I might sell you my Wilton 500N which opens to 8 inches.

 

[exmaxima1]

Tradesman jaws are powdered metal and crack quite often. The C-series has tool steel inserts which are much stronger. If that matters to you...

 

[American Locomotive]

Could you just get better jaws for the Tradesman?

 

[Dimitriy]

The early C series aren't as good as the later C series, but they're great vises.

The Tradesmen line are good vises, but not great...terrible jaws on them (sintered metal).

I wouldn't sell a C1 to buy a 1765. All you really gain is some jaw width, and that means very little in what the vise can do. The pipe jaws are also much smaller on the 1765...not a big deal, but noticeable.

I didn't realize the difference until after I purchased mine. It was lighter than the expected 80lbs. Figured out after some digging that the early models are 20lbs lighter. Thanks for the reply, didn't know about the difference in jaw insert material.

D

 

[Dimitriy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree with the G-man

If you really need a bigger opening capacity, I might sell you my Wilton 500N which opens to 8 inches.

Thanks for the offer, but for my second vise, I'm looking for either a Reed 3C or 105R.

D

 

[Dimitriy]

Tradesman jaws are powdered metal and crack quite often. The C-series has tool steel inserts which are much stronger. If that matters to you...

Didn't realize that, thanks for the info. Not sure if it matters for what this vise would be used for, planning to get a Reed 3C or 105R for the heavier work.

D

 

[Dimitriy]

Looked the C1 over after getting home from work, decided to keep it. Put some time into the restore so doesn't feel right to dump it.

D

 

[Dimitriy]

exmaxima1 - is that a 3C or 4C in your avatar? Looks awesome!

 

[Bobioz1]

C1 all day long. Never seen a 1945 C1. Does it say Wilton Tool Corp. on it? A few pics would be nice.

 

[Bobioz1]

You guys type fast.

 

[Bobioz1]

Says Schiller Park on it so not 1945.

 

[Dimitriy]

Says Schiller Park on it so not 1945.

Thought the 1945 was year of production. Where should I be looking?

D

 

[Bobioz1]

Unscrew the front jaw all the way out and look at the key for a stamp. Someone will be along shortly to explain it better than I can.

 

[Bobioz1]

Google "wilton bullet vise date stamping". It'll take you back to The GJ thread. There's pics of where to look for it.

 

[Dimitriy]

Found it, but very hard to make out. It's either 6-30-83 or 6-30-63. What year was the C1 beefed up from 60lbs to 80lbs?

 

[CrotalusAtrox]

Keep the C1 and get another always good to have a spare or two

 

[Bobioz1]

I have an early 70s C1 and yours is older than mine. So probably 1963. Pretty sure mine dosen't weigh 80 lbs.

 

[G-ManBart]

Could you just get better jaws for the Tradesman?

Sure, but it's still not as good of a vise as a C-series. A 1765 and a C-1 weigh about the same and open the same amount. The differences are that the dynamic jaw of a C-1 is much more massive, and the area that takes the load when the vise is closed is probably twice as big, along with the major difference in pipe jaws. A 1765 has tiny little pipe jaws that are handy, but are about 1/3 the size of the pipe jaws on a C-1.

 

[G-ManBart]

Thanks for the offer, but for my second vise, I'm looking for either a Reed 3C or 105R.

D

Those are completely dissimilar vises....aside from the jaw width they have almost nothing in common. They're both nice vises, but I can't imagine a scenario where someone would want either/or for the same tasks.

 

[Dimitriy]

Those are completely dissimilar vises....aside from the jaw width they have almost nothing in common. They're both nice vises, but I can't imagine a scenario where someone would want either/or for the same tasks.

Realize that, one is a combo swivel and the other is a standard fixed base vise. Conventional wisdom would lead me to get the 105R first since I'm keeping the C1, but I'll eventually own both the 3C and 105R. Because they're both hard to come by, I'll jump on the opportunity if a deal pops up on a 3C first.

 

[Shiftless]

The big Reed vises are truly fantastic vises. Keep looking and keep your wallet full and you will find one worthy of emptying that wallet.

Here is my modern era C1 for comparison purposes

 

[exmaxima1]

exmaxima1 - is that a 3C or 4C in your avatar? Looks awesome!

It's a 2C. They are big vises, weighs about 80-sumthin lbs. I also have a Reed 104-1/2, and it's a better vise for everyday use.

My 1945 Wilton C1 is a really nice vise, but I recently bought a late model C2 and I can see the allure. The machining is excellent, smooth operation, perfect alignment. My only dislike is the leadscrew pitch: it takes too many turns to tighten the jaws. I wish it was faster like my Ridgid.

BTW, I have found that Morgan switched to a faster thread pitch when they became Morgan Milwaukee. And you can interchange them if you switch both the screw and the nut. I think that the faster pitch made sense.

 

[G-ManBart]

It's a 2C. They are big vises, weighs about 80-sumthin lbs. I also have a Reed 104-1/2, and it's a better vise for everyday use.

My 1945 Wilton C1 is a really nice vise, but I recently bought a late model C2 and I can see the allure. The machining is excellent, smooth operation, perfect alignment. My only dislike is the leadscrew pitch: it takes too many turns to tighten the jaws. I wish it was faster like my Ridgid.

BTW, I have found that Morgan switched to a faster thread pitch when they became Morgan Milwaukee. And you can interchange them if you switch both the screw and the nut. I think that the faster pitch made sense.

I weighed one of my C2s at one point and I think it was around 85lbs.

A finer pitch allows more clamping pressure with less effort on the part of the user, and a finer pitch will be somewhat stronger for the same size screw diameter, so there are tradeoffs.

 

[exmaxima1]

I weighed one of my C2s at one point and I think it was around 85lbs.

So the Reed 2C and Wilton C2 weigh about the same? Having lifted the Wilton from my trunk yesterday in 3 pcs (my back is getting old), it felt heavier than that. Any estimate on the weight of a first generation C1?

 

[G-ManBart]

So the Reed 2C and Wilton C2 weigh about the same? Having lifted the Wilton from my trunk yesterday in 3 pcs (my back is getting old), it felt heavier than that. Any estimate on the weight of a first generation C1?

I weighed a C2 I had a while back, similar to yours, and it was 95lbs, so heavier than the 2C for sure.

I have a 1951 C1 I can weigh...I'm almost done with it. I have a picture of an old Wilton dealer catalog and it shows a double-pin model as the example, and says 68lbs for weight.

 

[exmaxima1]

C1 all day long. Never seen a 1945 C1. Does it say Wilton Tool Corp. on it? A few pics would be nice.

The date on my 1945 C1 is both on the slide key and stamped on the base. That's a current C2 disassembled in the background.

---edit---
I shot photo with my ipad both ways and the pic still displays upside down. Sorry.

 

[Dimitriy]

The big Reed vises are truly fantastic vises. Keep looking and keep your wallet full and you will find one worthy of emptying that wallet.

Here is my modern era C1 for comparison purposes

Nice C1, the dynamic jaw looks significantly more stout than the earlier C1's. I don't see any pins holding the pipe jaws, are they removable?

 

[Dimitriy]

So the Reed 2C and Wilton C2 weigh about the same? Having lifted the Wilton from my trunk yesterday in 3 pcs (my back is getting old), it felt heavier than that. Any estimate on the weight of a first generation C1?

read 62lbs on my bathroom scale.

 

[Dimitriy]

The date on my 1945 C1 is both on the slide key and stamped on the base. That's a current C2 disassembled in the background.

---edit---
I shot photo with my ipad both ways and the pic still displays upside down. Sorry.

Since you have both in comparable sizes, how does the C1 stack up against the 2C?

 

[G-ManBart]

Nice C1, the dynamic jaw looks significantly more stout than the earlier C1's. I don't see any pins holding the pipe jaws, are they removable?

The earliest C-series had two pins holding the pipe jaws. The next version had one set of pins. The most recent versions use spring clips on the back of the pipe jaws that fit into recesses in the jaw towers. You can pull them out with a big set of pliers pretty easily, and just push back in to replace.

The Wilton machinist and Combination vises were given a significant increase in size and strength when they updated the designs. I haven't seen an exact year that happened, but from all the Wiltons I've had, I would say it was in the mid-1970s. Early 1970s vises have the old shape/style and by 1976/77 they seem to be the more current style.

The earlier models have the more rounded dynamic jaw, which has a fairly large empty cavity. With the redesign the dynamic jaw is flatter, or more square profile, and has a very small cavity that's pretty insignificant. Part of that redesign also increased the area that surrounds the spindle collar significantly. It also recessed the collar into the dynamic jaw a bit, making it less likely to get hit and damaged.

There was another redesign around 1998 that eliminated the tail cap assembly that was a male plug fitting into the body of the vise that the nut went through. Now there is a round structure that fits completely inside the vise body, and the nut goes through that. A larger dust cap covers the entire assembly.

In short, the newest machinist vises are the strongest, and heaviest for a given model they have ever been. They are also much more consistent when it comes to things like casting accuracy, bolt hole spacing, etc, etc. I love the way the older Wiltons look, but they aren't as well made as the newest vises....contrary to what some folks might claim. I've seen older vises with keyways that were vastly oversized, not due to wear, holes for the jaw bolts offset .020 opposite from one another so replacement jaws wouldn't match up even remotely closely, main bodies cast offset so the swivel lock was nearly touching on one side, and well clear on the other, and the list goes on.

Guess I better put on my flame suit...lol.

 

[G-ManBart]

Since you have both in comparable sizes, how does the C1 stack up against the 2C?

I have both as well and a 2C is quite a bit larger in every dimension save for jaw width.

 

[G-ManBart]

Here's a 1970 stamped C1 next to a 2C. The C1 is a basket case that's in pieces...I just set it on the closest outer ring I had lying around. The original outer ring would be slightly shorter.

Sorry....can't get the pictures to present properly. The forum software must not have the plugin to correct for pictures taken vertically on smart phones.

 

[Dimitriy]

Here's a 1970 stamped C1 next to a 2C. The C1 is a basket case that's in pieces...I just set it on the closest outer ring I had lying around. The original outer ring would be slightly shorter.

Sorry....can't get the pictures to present properly. The forum software must not have the plugin to correct for pictures taken vertically on smart phones.

That 2C just looks much more stout all around. I secured a 60's 105 N today, it's in great condition, but I may still do a full restore to pretty it up. Will start a new thread with pics once it arrives.

 

[exmaxima1]

I weighed a C2 I had a while back, similar to yours, and it was 95lbs, so heavier than the 2C for sure.

Just weighed my Wilton C2, current version, dated 2006: it weighs 108 lbs.

 

[G-ManBart]

Just weighed my Wilton C2, current version, dated 2006: it weighs 108 lbs.

That makes sense. They tweaked the tail cap assembly after 1998, and it added a bit more mass to the back of the vise.

 

[Michael_in_DE]

Stick with the old-school. It has more character.