Wilton C2 Vise Advise - Fixable?

[jonhdw]

Hello all,

I finally found a Wilton C2 for sale on my local Craigslist, and was about to jump on it, but there is an issue with it I wanted to run by the experts here first.

I don't have pictures yet, so this may be difficult to explain, but here goes:
The dynamic jaw tower is not securely fastened to the cylindrical slide, and it can rotate slightly clockwise. It is easy to wiggle by hand, and when clamping the vise closed, the jaw tower rotates and won't align properly. Also, the jaw inserts do not touch; the pipe jaws hit first and prevent full closure. I'm not sure if that means anything, just throwing it out there.

How are these two parts secured together when the vise is built? It does not appear that anything is broken, so I'm hoping the two pieces were just pressed together or something, and can be pressed back together.

I am working on getting pics ASAP. I didn't have my camera on me when I checked the vise out, so the seller is supposed to send some today. Thanks!

 

[AceofSpad3s]

Drivesitfar is a expert when it comes to wiltons, I would ask him if I were you. It sounds like a break to me though.

 

[jonhdw]

Thanks Ace! Yeah hopefully drivesitfar chimes in. I am hoping it is something that can be repaired. The seller said he will have pics to me by Noon when he is on lunch break.

 

[drivesitfar]

Jon: pictures would help for sure. if it doesn't look like anything is broken i'm not sure what to tell you. maybe pictures of my old Wilton C2 might help you to start.

also if you unscrew the dynamic all the way (don't drop it because it is about 50 pounds) you might see something loose or broken. take as many pictures as you can and we'll try to help you.

if you have more than 7 pictures limit for one post make 2 or 3 posts.

ACE: thanks for the kudos, but there are far wiser and more talented guys on here than I. i'm happy to help if i can though or get the information maybe to someone that might know more about the certain issue.

 

[zkling]

Talk to member YaIdunno, he put out a writeup on how some of those larger C series are actually pressed or threaded coupling between the dynamic jaw and the slide. : without seeing it in person or good pics it would be difficult to tell what happened and thus what all it would take to repair it, if feasible.

 

[jonhdw]

Drivesitfar, thanks for the pics of your C2, it looks nice! I have taken the dynamic jaw all the way out and the issue is not with the body or static jaw. The issue is where the cylinder meets the dynamic jaw body. These are the best pics I could get.

The first two show how the cylinder can wiggle around in the dynamic jaw. On other Wilton's I've seen, this area looks very clean; almost as if the jaw and cylinder are one piece. However, this one appears to be two separate pieces that were never welded there. Again I am not sure how these two pieces are attached from the factory, so the answer to that might shed some light on my situation.

The last two pictures show how much the dynamic jaw can rotate. It moves easily by hand. I want to be clear that this is not slop in the key or keyway; the cylinder is not rotating at all between the two pictures, only the dynamic jaw is rotating relative to the cylinder.

If you click back and forth between each pair of pics, it's easier to see where the movement is.

Thanks!

 

[jonhdw]

Zkling, that sounds exactly like what I'm thinking is going on here. I'll search for that post. Thanks!

 

[yaidunno]

There is a pin that "locks" the dynamic jaw into place on the cylinder. From the pictures and your description, it sounds like the pin itself is wore out, or the hole (half of which is in the jaw, and half in the cylinder) is egged. If memory serves me correct, the pin simply floats in the hole, which is located behind the retaining plate. Any dirt or corrosion make it a real bear to remove, but since yours is sloppy lose now, it should simply fall out.

It can be repaired with the proper tools, should the hole need to be upsized. It's possible that you simply need to make/buy a new pin to solve your problem as well.

 

[dkroth]

jonhdw,

I was at an equipment auction this past spring. They had a C2 with the exact same problem. I didn't end up winning the bid (somewhat because the loose jaw reduced my top bid) but I'll be very interested to see what happens to this vise and how you fix it.

With all the vise talk on GJ I've never seen a Wilton dynamic jaw repair. Good info yaidunno.

Please post lots of pictures.

 

[jonhdw]

Awesome, thanks Yaidunno! That makes a lot of sense. I'll probably snag it up if that's what's going on. That seems like an easy fix.

 

[jonhdw]

Yeah Dkroth, I found that odd as well. When I saw this vise I thought there was no way this is the only one with that issue, but I searched around all night and found nothing!

 

[drivesitfar]

Jon: can you take a full picture of the underside of dynamic's slide? is the keyway missing? they are pinned on and sometimes are missing or broken which might be the problem.

Autopts mentioned a few months ago that the slides are pressed into the dynamic jaw and maybe that is the pin Dunno is talking about. i've yet to see a Wilton loose like that. i've seen a lot of key ways broken or that have fallen off. take a few more pictures of the inside of the static and full size of both sections and the vise if you can.

good luck

 

[AceofSpad3s]

Autopts mentioned a few months ago that the slides are pressed into the dynamic jaw and maybe that is the pin Dunno is talking about. i've yet to see a Wilton loose like that. i've seen a lot of key ways broken or that have fallen off. take a few more pictures of the inside of the static and full size of both sections and the vise if you can.

good luck

Interesting, I never knew they were pressed on.

 

[yaidunno]

Jon: can you take a full picture of the underside of dynamic's slide? is the keyway missing? they are pinned on and sometimes are missing or broken which might be the problem.

Autopts mentioned a few months ago that the slides are pressed into the dynamic jaw and maybe that is the pin Dunno is talking about. i've yet to see a Wilton loose like that. i've seen a lot of key ways broken or that have fallen off. take a few more pictures of the inside of the static and full size of both sections and the vise if you can.

good luck

The pin I'm referring to runs parallel with the cylinder, and is located behind the handle retention plate. They literally drill a blind (i think its blind) hole at the seam where the jaw and cylinder meet. It goes straight through the threads and prevents the two pieces from unscrewing.

It's my assumption that the vise is made this way to avoid having a long awkward shaped casting. The separate "tube" or "cylinder" is easily machined to the finished OD and keyed without having a 50 lb offset weight swinging around this way.

 

[drivesitfar]

ACE: pretty sure the smaller Wiltons are made in one piece or at least used to be. I was surprised too when Autopts and was commenting on another member's loose Wilton.

Dunno: can you post the link to the Wilton C2 thread that Zkling mentioned you had started? i couldn't find it and it might be nice for it to be on this thread too if it's been a while since there was a post on it because i don't remember it.
thanks for the 411 and help too.

 

[yaidunno]

ACE: pretty sure the smaller Wiltons are made in one piece or at least used to be. I was surprised too when Autopts and was commenting on another member's loose Wilton.

Dunno: can you post the link to the Wilton C2 thread that Zkling mentioned you had started? i couldn't find it and it might be nice for it to be on this thread too if it's been a while since there was a post on it because i don't remember it.
thanks for the 411 and help too.

A quick search leaves me empty handed on the post regarding the C2. I do however have a picture of the pin in question.

 

[A E Numan]

That pin looks like it could be removed by drilling and tapping it, then use a slide hammer to pull it out. I would drill or ream the hole with the dynamic jaw slid all of the way in to the static jaw and then use a clamp to keep the jaws aligned wile opening up the hole.

 

[KMScott]

yaidunno is correct, the slider tube is pressed on and pinned in place with a blind pin, gotta have a big drill press or a mill to add as many pins as you want. You might be able to align the dynamic jaw and tack weld it in place then add the dowell pin , your original pin might be sheared if some one did heavy side work with your vise. yaidunno picture clearly shows the pin and you should be able to see yours under the Horse-Shoe washer.

Another option to really fine tune the two jaw faces are like this. I had to align the key one time and that included welding a bead on one side of the date stamp key and remove material on the other side to align the Dynamic to the Static. Took more time figuring out how much to add and subtract. Came out to one degree. I wrote about it some where either in the vise repair thread or the vise thread. Here are the pics that fixed my 600S.

Good luck.

 

[jonhdw]

Thanks for all the responses guys! I just picked it up and will take it apart to check that pin in a few hours, so I'll keep you all posted. So it's definitely blind, with no way to punch it through? I'll probably have to take it to a machine shop to get that fixed properly...

 

[Woodworker99]

I have a Wilton C3 and the slide itself is made of steel not a casting. I thought the slide was threaded into the jaw since the dowel pin would prevent the jaw from unthreading (?).

 

[yaidunno]

I have a Wilton C3 and the slide itself is made of steel not a casting. I thought the slide was threaded into the jaw since the dowel pin would prevent the jaw from unthreading (?).

The slide is indeed threaded into the jaw, at least on the C2. I would assume the C3 to be the same.

 

[spongerich]

I had a 600S with the same problem. I looked all over that damn thing and couldn't locate any sign of a pin anywhere. I ended up drilling and reaming a hole for a taper pin and driving it in and machined it flush.

 

[jonhdw]

So I don't know what made me think to try this, but I just hit that pin with a huge punch and hammer, and the jaw tightened right up. I am not sure how strong it is, but I can't wiggle it by hand anymore. The jaws line up well, but not perfectly. I don't know how much I feel like trying to remove the pin and fix it properly. I don't have the tools, and I don't want to dump a bunch of money in it to get it machined, so we'll see how it holds up.

 

[jonhdw]

I like your idea Spongerich about running a pin in the jaw elsewhere. Has that held up well over heavy use?

 

[drivesitfar]

Jon: unless you want to do a full restore clean it up and grease it because it sounds like you fixed it.

post more pictures as you can.

ALL: i've never seen the dynamic jaw apart in two pieces so does anybody have pictures of that showing the threads they have and the pin Jon just hammered back in place?? thanks in advance

 

[jonhdw]

Here are some pics Drivesitfar. I am not sure I fixed it permanently, and the jaws still don't align properly, but at least I know now that it's fixable. I'll probably use it until I find a better specimen, then sell it to someone who has the tools and experience to do this properly.

Also, I never learn my lessons when I buy vises! I got too excited to buy this one that I didn't realize the pins holding the nut carrier assembly were jacked up. It doesn't even look like the right nut to me... It unscrews because the nut is pushing against the dust cover, not because the pins are holding it in. Luckily that is an easy fix!

 

[spongerich]

I like your idea Spongerich about running a pin in the jaw elsewhere. Has that held up well over heavy use?

Don't know. I ended up selling her a few months later when I came across a 5" bullet. With the 600's selling for crazy money, I decided to keep the 5 and sink the money into more tooling.

I used a pretty large taper pin and some permanent locktite, so I don't imagine it'll ever go anywhere.

 

[Bobioz1]

Can't you leave the worn pin where it is and just add a couple more?

 

[drivesitfar]

Jon: some of the members have pulled their pins on their Wilton's vise nut and then replaced with threaded pins after drilling and tapping some threads. makes it easier to remove the next time for cleaning and re greasing. it's a thought. look up member RayH posts on the vise repair 101 thread because i remember he did that and did a good write up about how to.

your old C2 is how old? did you see a date on the keyway (slide on bottom of dynamic) and do tell? since the jaws are pretty beat up i'm guessing more than one time it was hit with a BFH so not surprised there are some other issues.

IMHO the C2 is Wilton's best made designed vise they produce.

BOB: i like that idea and if only just on or two more and tapping some threads and using threaded pin(s).

 

[jonhdw]

Sponge: Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

Bob: Yes, I suppose I could just add pins to really hold it tight. I guess I'm concerned with jaw alignment, and with the tools I have I don't think I could get it very close. But couldn't hurt to try!

Drivesitfar: The vise was made in 1978, and that's an excellent suggestion on the threaded inserts. That would probably be easier for me to do since I just have a hand drill, and the holes wouldn't need to be so perfect as they would with pins.