Wilton Vise History

[autopts]

Thanks Nick. You have much more knowledge on this than I do, but David had a large 5" I believe that the casting said "Chicago" and the dynamic jaw was stamped with something like "172" also. Like I said, I was just guessing though.

Steve

On the Chicago castings, the number is on the body side usually under the jaw. The late 1940's and some early 50's had no # stamped that meant anything. Wilton didn't get a unfied numbering system until around the mid 50's.

 

[kc-steve]

On the Chicago castings, the number is on the body side usually under the jaw. The late 1940's and some early 50's had no # stamped that meant anything. Wilton didn't get a unfied numbering system until around the mid 50's.

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to the model number casting. I was referring to the stamp on the dynamic jaw keyway. DavidB had a 4" or 5" one just like SWA Guy's and the stamp had no hyphen or dash like most have. Example: 172 versus 1-72. It was on a thread he started though and I don't have time to look for it. We didn't know why that was and his was a "Chicago" casting as well. I only guessed that maybe it had been repaired in 1972.

But it is good to know that the 2" vises were never made at Schiller Park.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[MattT]

Got a few (bad) pics of Wiltons in old MAC catalogs for y'all.

1951.

1953.

1957.

1963.

Looks like Wilton were high dollar even back then. In '63 price list the 5" H.D. mechanics vise is $34.95 and the bullet like Cadet is $62.50. There is also a 5" Littlestown in the same catalog and it's only $17.90.

 

[autopts]

I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to the model number casting. I was referring to the stamp on the dynamic jaw keyway. DavidB had a 4" or 5" one just like SWA Guy's and the stamp had no hyphen or dash like most have. Example: 172 versus 1-72. It was on a thread he started though and I don't have time to look for it. We didn't know why that was and his was a "Chicago" casting as well. I only guessed that maybe it had been repaired in 1972.

But it is good to know that the 2" vises were never made at Schiller Park.

Thanks,
Steve

Oh, the keyway, yes 172 I'd lay money is 1-72. They often left out the dashes. Funny, there must be an x Wilton employee that reads these threads. You would think one of them would speak up!

 

[kc-steve]

Oh, the keyway, yes 172 I'd lay money is 1-72. They often left out the dashes. Funny, there must be an x Wilton employee that reads these threads. You would think one of them would speak up!

Ha-ha! yeah you would think so. With your help as well as others here I think it is safe to say this thread is the best information about Wilton Vise History on the Internet though!

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Catalyze]

The hyphen guy was on vacation for a few weeks every year. At least he wasn't there on the date my keyway was stamped:
View media item 8145
Craig

 

[crankshaftdan II]

I've got one of those, haven't done anything with it yet. Not real heavy duty but kind of cool. I think I gave around 5 bucks for it.

Jim

This is pictures of my wilton, the part numbers show up-however there was only a decal on the right inset that did not survive the clean-up! The only other # is a 2 that you can make out on the main body part. Don't really know if that might be the model #. Was undr the impression that this was called a model maker's or gunmaker's vise? One was listed on flea bay for $430.00-any taker's here? I'll do a 30% GJ-flashing blue light special discount!!! Yours........Cranky

 

[kc-steve]

The Wilton History webpage is FINALLY online now, and also reference my "Friends at Garage Journal" as a primary source of information.
http://junkyardtools.com/tool_history/wilton

Thanks all for your XLNT information. And changes will be made as time goes on. Google likes changes.

Steve

 

[waltinbatonrouge]

Hi Gents..Its been a pleasure reading though your Wilton thread.
I do a lot of mechanic work as a hobby. Right now its 2 Yamaha Grizzly 4 wheelers

If you'd care to look at a basketcase rebuild

http://s777.photobucket.com/albums/yy59/waltinbatonrouge/2005 Kodiak 450/

Anyway, I inherited a Wilton CO that I'm wondering about.
I looked for a date on the slide, nothing there, but there is a casting number 101055

It's missing a set of pipe jaws (old style with the set screw) one of the tie downs is broken. I'd also love to find the 2 rubber bumpers for the handle and a tailpiece cover.

Might anyone have any idea as to the approximate date of manufacture of the vise? ..

and where i might find the parts? I called Wilton and they weren't much help on the old vises
However I did PM Nick (autopts) he was very quick to respond, and mentioned that the new pipe jaws would fit with the slightest bit of modification.

But any other thoughts or advise would be much appreciated..

Its apart for cleaning and bead blasting , but here are a few pics..thanks very much

waltinbatonrouge

 

[autopts]

I believe if a set screw holds in the pipe jaws its late 60's thru the 70's. After that they were held in with a clip in back. Before that, they were held in with 2 pins. The stamper mush have had a day off. Here's some Wilton trivia, if you take that keyway off and its held on with very small allan head screws, the stamped date should also be on the other side also.

 

[waltinbatonrouge]

thanks Nick! the key is held on with 2 drift pins. Under the key were 3 pieces of broken saw blade used as shims....no date on either side of the key, even with my wife's 10x jewelers loop ..thinking this may have been worked on some time ago..the key has scratches across the direction of travel..maybe it was replaced, or maybe it was a Friday afternoon at Wilton... see pics.

Anyway..I'm imagining it was in a mechanics shop when I was in high school...so I'll blast it paint it up and use it..if i need a .010 shim under the key to tighten the vise up not a problem, at least it won't self destruct like my Chinese Columbian!!!

 

[waltinbatonrouge]

Hi Nick...i bead-blasted the C0, calipered the ID and OD and put 2 .016 brass shims under the key, new drift pins and a 1 1/4" knockout plug from an electrical panel fits the hole in the back of the spindle perfectly ...the spindle has about .040 runout at the handle end but I think i can live with that ..it'll just eventually wear down at the allen head screws...and is already starting to smooth out.
... I think i found some pipe jaws at grainger...

Its a great vise..thanks again for your help

 

[autopts]

Hi Nick...i bead-blasted the C0, calipered the ID and OD and put 2 .016 brass shims under the key, new drift pins and a 1 1/4" knockout plug from an electrical panel fits the hole in the back of the spindle perfectly ...the spindle has about .040 runout at the handle end but I think i can live with that ..it'll just eventually wear down the allen head screws...and is already starting to smooth out.
... I think i found some pipe jaws at grainger...

Its a great vise..thanks again for your help

Oh!! Thats nice!! Thats certainly a piece of functional art. I didn't know you already had one pipe jaw, maybe another half is out there somewhere. Those pipe jaws are pricey!

 

[waltinbatonrouge]

Hi backatcha..no the angle on the first pic makes it look like one pipe jaw is inplace but they are both missing...

But since were on that subject, So if i remove the clip from the new style CO pipe jaws, they should fit right in and lock down with the set screw, without any machine work, correct?

thanks again!

 

[autopts]

Hi backatcha..no the angle on the first pic makes it look like one pipe jaw is inplace but they are both missing...

But since were on that subject, So if i remove the clip from the new style CO pipe jaws, they should fit right in and lock down with the set screw, without any machine work, correct?

thanks again!

Yes, the pipe jaws never changed except for the back clip on the C-1,2, & 3, I'm guessing that that also holds true on the C-0. Wilton won't tell you either. They claim they shredded all their old info. If it was myself, I'd take the chance.

 

[waltinbatonrouge]

..ooops! i can see that I am posting off topic here...if any of the administrators want to move my posts to a more appropriate "Wilton restorers" thread, please do!

sorry 'bout that!

walt

 

[RobRace10]

So anybody really want Wilton history? I worked there for 27 years until the foreigners who bought them decided that they don't need knowledgeable people working for them any longer. That is why nobody at the new company have any real knowledge about the vises, it's just another product to them.


It is true that there are Wilton reunions as there were a bunch of really good, dedicated people in it's hayday.

I was there when they acquired Warren Tool, I'm going to say probably about 1994, primarily to get into the retail business and buy up a competitor. Ken Tool was kept by the owners of Warren Tool and continued to buy Columbian vises from Wilton for about 10 years. This purchase of Warren was the beginning of the downfall in my opinion, grandiose plans to sell the big box stores and forsake their roots.

Hugh Vogl started Wilton, he came from the Czech Republic and Wilton started making handles for department store boxes back in the 30's called the "Carry Pack" handle. When WWII came along they began making vises. I believe Hugh had worked for a vise company in the Check republic and you can see the similarities of the Wilton vises if you Google York vise.

His son, Alex and Bill Ferrick built the business at Wilton from the 40's to the 80's. Bill Ferrick hired me back in the early 80's.

There are very few people left who really know the story and history. They made great products for a lot of years.

So I can try and check every once in awhile or PM if you want more info.

 

[SWA Guy]

Rob,

That's fantastic! As you may have guessed, there are some pretty fanatic Wilton vise fans here. If you read through the previous messages in this thread, you'll see how much we appreciate good old American made quality tools. Wilton vises in this example. You are among friends here.

Do you have any original manuals, historical documents, photos or anything else Wilton related that you could feed to this Wilton crowd?

Welcome aboard,

Guy in Sacramento

 

[SWA Guy]

This just up on eBay - 250901725959

This is the very first 2" Wilton Baby Bullet vise that I have seen with the Schiller Park casting. Every other one that I have seen had the Chicago casting. Maybe I just lead a sheltered life...

 

[autopts]

So anybody really want Wilton history? I worked there for 27 years until the foreigners who bought them decided that they don't need knowledgeable people working for them any longer.
"So I can try and check every once in awhile or PM if you want more info."


Rob, we've been waiting forever for someone to come out. I was beginning to thnk all the Wilton employees, ex employees and retirees were sworn to a code of secrecy. We might bleed you to death with needed information. I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind.
1. When did Wilton Tool start to importing from China?
2. Wern't their early Tradsman vises made there?
3. Don't they continue to import many parts that go into vises from China even today?
4. It sems like Wilton and Jet had something going on even long before WMH bought them. Did the early Tacoma turn Wilton on to far East suppliers?
5. I could ask 25 questions easy, but lastly. What, in your estimation is the best vise made today? Welcome aboard

 

[kc-steve]

Thanks Robert, I got your email and your PM. We always welcome information about Wilton. There are a few threads with bits and pieces scattered around GJ such as the York Vise (Czech) connection. I try to put it all together in an article on my website.

I will be updating my website soon so keep that info coming.

http://junkyardtools.com/tool_history/wilton

Steve

 

[kc-steve]

I'll try to save Robert some time retyping what he wrote to me . . .

I won't have time today to go through your history, but will when I get some time. There also was Wilton Machinery division, Wilton Packaging, Wilton Engineered products, and Anderson Products (brushes). I believe the Engineered products is now owned again by Charles Vogl, who ran Wilton for the last few years before the various divisions were sold. Wilton Tool (vises) was sold to HTII (Hand Tool International Inc) with an interest by WMH. WMH bought Wilton Machinery and combined it with JET Equipment.

Wilton also sold back in the 70's some hydraulic vises to Monroe engineering and they continued to sell them under Wilton brand name.

(link removed by request)

Eventually HTII combined with WMH so what was left of Wilton was all part of WMH. The Vogls owned the plant in Schiller Park, and was not sold with Wilton. The Wilton signature (round channel) vises that are still made in the USA are contract manufactured by a company in Elgin, IL. The exception is the one they make for Sears is done in China and they may be trying to make some of the other ones in China now, but not sure of that. I can't tell you how many of us fought to keep those vises made in the USA as there was tremendous pressure from the owners in Switzerland to make them in China. All other Wilton vises come from China and a few small ones come from York CZ.

Not sure who bought Engineered products (trailer hubs and spindles), but Charles Vogl ended up getting that back and I believe he still has it today, but all mfg is done in China.

Got to go now.

 

[autopts]

I'll try to save Robert some time retyping what he wrote to me . . .

Steve, Thats a great share! Thanks

 

[RobRace10]

So anybody really want Wilton history? I worked there for 27 years until the foreigners who bought them decided that they don't need knowledgeable people working for them any longer.
"So I can try and check every once in awhile or PM if you want more info."


Rob, we've been waiting forever for someone to come out. I was beginning to thnk all the Wilton employees, ex employees and retirees were sworn to a code of secrecy. We might bleed you to death with needed information. I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind.
1. When did Wilton Tool start to importing from China?
2. Wern't their early Tradsman vises made there?
3. Don't they continue to import many parts that go into vises from China even today?
4. It sems like Wilton and Jet had something going on even long before WMH bought them. Did the early Tacoma turn Wilton on to far East suppliers?
5. I could ask 25 questions easy, but lastly. What, in your estimation is the best vise made today? Welcome aboard

I'll try to answer a few questions:

None of us are sworn to secrecy about the questions being asked, but the same basic group of people ran Wilton for decades, and all of that knowledge is now gone either at competitors or retired. It was a great place to work for a lot of us, but the business changed and the family atmosphere disappeared. I was involved in and personally came up with some of the improvements to the Wilton round channel vises over the years and fought hard for keeping those made in the USA.


1) Wilton started bring product in from China to compete in the retail market I would say around 1997 or so. It was simply impossible to compete with the China products with a made in USA when you talk to the big box stores. They (the retailers) want price and brand names not necessarily the highest quality.

2)Early tradesman vises were never made in China. Up until the mid to late 90's There were no Wilton vises coming from China or components. There were some knockoff tradesman vises come in from China and or India, I can't remember which, but Wilton has a Trademark on the bullet shape and that is what has kept others from copying them as the patents ran out decades ago, but Trademarks never expire unless you don't actively go after infringements. The infringing companies were told to cease and desist.

3) As far as I know the USA vises are made entirely in the USA. There may have been a few small parts screws etc that came from other sources, but all the main parts for sure were USA.

4) Up until the sale of Wilton to HTII then the merge with Jet (owned by WMH), there was absolutely no relationship with JET as Wilton was a competitor and we sold against them. The Machinery division had been working for many years with other sources (Taiwan and Europe) many years before any vises were made over seas. .

5) The Wilton Combination vises are still the best for many reasons. The vises that Ridgid sells (Peddinhaus) are probably next in line against a Tradesman vise. They Ridgid vises aren't perfect, but they have large openings and use forgings in the front and back clamping portions which are stronger than castings.

 

[kc-steve]

. . . 2)Early tradesman vises were never made in China. Up until the mid to late 90's There were no Wilton vises coming from China or components. There were some knockoff tradesman vises come in from China and or India, I can't remember which, but Wilton has a Trademark on the bullet shape and that is what has kept others from copying them as the patents ran out decades ago, but Trademarks never expire unless you don't actively go after infringements. The infringing companies were told to cease and desist.

Great info! That would also explain why York no longer makes their old style bullet. It was patented in CZ approximately 1938 or so, before Wilton's U.S. patent in 1941.

Steve

 

[autopts]

I'll try to answer a few questions:

"2)Early tradesman vises were never made in China. Up until the mid to late 90's There were no Wilton vises coming from China or components".

"3) As far as I know the USA vises are made entirely in the USA. There may have been a few small parts screws etc that came from other sources, but all the main parts for sure were USA".
"5) The Wilton Combination vises are still the best for many reasons. The vises that Ridgid sells (Peddinhaus) are probably next in line against a Tradesman vise"..

Rob, you are so kind in answering my questions. I'm confused as to why Wilton left their casting free from C.O.O on their 1740's, 1750's and some 1760's all thru the later 70's & 80's and just left a sticker on the side stating that their main office was in Palatine Il. Your mention of Wilton's C-Series as being top notch, and you feel their Tradesman is next in line? Is their something about the Wilton machinist series you know that we don't?
Thanks for your time.
Nick

 

[ert01]

Just wanted to share my latest purchase...

I am fairly new to the whole Wilton vise fan club and I'm still eager to learn more. The stamp on the bottom, is that the manufacture date or the warranty expiry date? I've heard both mentioned.

Also is my vise an 8400 or a 9400? It looks like 8400 is stamped into the steel on the movable jaw but I'm quite sure it has 9400 on the static jaw side. Can anyone comment on those markings?

Jaw width is 4".

Also interesting to note are the aluminum jaw protectors. It looks like they were made out of some angle aluminum and hammered to match the shape of the jaws. Those aluminum protectors are actually the reason I was able to buy this vise... The old farmer that had it said he was always worried about losing those so he never really used the vise. He's retiring and moving to the city for health reasons and figured he could only take one vise with him and he decided he'd take the one he used most on the farm... An old beat up Record. So he sold me this one in great shape for $40.

Everything moves tight and smooth and there's no cracks or serious rust or even bad hammer marks or cuts or anything. I'm quite happy with it so far.

 

[kc-steve]

ert01, I'd say you made an XLNT deal on that for $40! Based on the date of 3-53 I would say that is the warranty expiration date meaning your vise was manufactured in 1948. In my opinion, it was much later when Wilton went to the actual date of production, maybe like after 1958 or so. BTW, I use similar jaw protectors that I just cut from hot-rolled angle iron, nothing special. I use them mainly to protect the work piece rather than the jaws and you can make 'em yourself all day long.

Thanks for sharing,
Steve

 

[autopts]

These are the 4 generations of 4" machinist type since the 40's. On the far left with their lowboy, 1st generation. Its a Pat. Pending No. 4. Second is early late 40's & 50's with their 9400, then came the later style 9400/101028 and todays 400S. You won't see them all together like this often.

 

[RobRace10]

Rob, you are so kind in answering my questions. I'm confused as to why Wilton left their casting free from C.O.O on their 1740's, 1750's and some 1760's all thru the later 70's & 80's and just left a sticker on the side stating that their main office was in Palatine Il. Your mention of Wilton's C-Series as being top notch, and you feel their Tradesman is next in line? Is their something about the Wilton machinist series you know that we don't?
Thanks for your time.
Nick

The reason the names were no longer cast in the sides of the Tradesman vises is because of private brand customers, The cost of pouring separate castings for those customers would have added a lot of cost in inventory. So the vises began having the cavity on the side so that more than one brand could use the same castings and then have a label put into it and other paint options. I believe if a product is made in the USA, it does not have to be marked made in USA for sale in the US. I'm positive that the castings for the Tradesman vises were never made in the Far East. Where they are made in the last couple years, I have no knowledge of, but I assume still USA. It was very easy for China to make grey iron castings, but pouring Ductile Iron was not and still not easy for China to do.



Wilton Machinist vises are also great vises, but they do not have pipe jaws and the height from the slide bar to the jaws is not as high as the other series. The Combination vises have the most mass at the front and back castings and their pipe jaws are much better than those on the Tradesman line. If you want big capacity, the Combination series vises fit the bill as they, have bigger height between the jaws and the slide bar and larger openings.

The Machinist and Combinations vises use steel jaws, Tradesman vises use powdered metal jaws. While the powdered metal aren't bad the steel jaws are better. Same difference on the pipe jaws.

The Machinist vises are probably stronger than the Tradesman Vises, but for the average car mechanic etc the Tradesman is a really nice vise. I have one 1760 and a 1755 for my own use and I could have had any I wanted, but for the size and features they work well. If your working on trucks and large items a C-1 or C-2 would be better. The C-3 is really big as I recall about 150Lbs, so you need to do some series work.

Wilton also had or may still have an 8"' Machinist vise. Sometimes people would call and order the biggest vise Wilton had, that would be the 800S. I would have customer service call the companies back if they were ordered as most people do not realize how big a 248 Lb vise is. Many people were shocked when they 800S vises would show up as they were quite a big hunk of metal and probably half of them would get shipped back because they were so big.

All three series use the same Ductile Iron in their castings, so it's just mass and features that make the difference.

 

[kc-steve]

. . . The Machinist vises are probably stronger than the Tradesman Vises, but for the average car mechanic etc the Tradesman is a really nice vise. I have one 1760 and a 1755 for my own use and I could have had any I wanted, but for the size and features they work well. If your working on trucks and large items a C-1 or C-2 would be better. The C-3 is really big as I recall about 150Lbs, so you need to do some series work. . . .

All three series use the same Ductile Iron in their castings, so it's just mass and features that make the difference.

Please pardon my interruption, but I think Nick (aka autopts) is speaking from experience after seeing many broken C-series (and Tradesman?) vises in the real world. While I still respect your opinion, your side of the debate is focused more on features.

And it is probably true that auto mechanics prefer a vise with pipe jaws as well as the ability to beat the **** out of them, but I don't think machinists would agree with you at all. In fact, machinists generally look down on "lowly" vises with pipe jaws and anvils.

Overall the different trades, all vise users, I think the Machinist is without doubt the preferred vise. The rounded design was even recognized by the ancient Romans as having additional strength compared to squared designs when they built their arches.

But now days, I think the Machinist's Bullet has taken on a cult following that will last a long time.

Just some thoughts,
Steve

 

[RobRace10]

There are probably more broken tradesman and combination vises because of the applications rather than the vise itself. Machinists vise are meant for Machinists typically a user who would not be using sledge hammers on parts held in it etc and they don't need the throat depth. I remember getting warranty claims on C-3 vises, we sent someone out to inspect them as that was very unusual. Turns out they were mounted on the back of trucks and when another truck would get stuck in the mud, a big chain was wrapped in the vise and used to tow out stuck trucks and the vises would snap or bend. Also the lower profile of a Machinist vise makes the casting less likely to break than a combination vise.
They are all good vises, but for a mechanic, which I assumed more of the boards members would be, the Machinist would be a third pick, but for a machinist they would be the preferable vise. Just my opinion.

.

 

[autopts]

I love this thread and Rob? Its great having you aboard. You are the only one that can provide us with an "insiders" view. I love all USA made Wiltons, some maybe more then others. I don't understand why someone would buy a new Wilton and mount them out, in the open, on a back of a truck. I do see them out there. It just seems like a waste. Years ago I sold a C-2 and the buyer said he didn't care out the paint, it was going on the back of his truck.

 

[Lump]

Fascinating info, Rob. Thanks so much!

I can see one application where a low-profile vise would be desirable....I have back problems, so I made my work bench slightly higher than many, to avoid bending over. Therefore a low-profile vise would be convenient for me sometimes. On the other hand, I have caught the highly contagious "big vise fever" from infected members of Garage Journal, and will eventually have a monster on the other end of the same bench.

The insights you have provided are priceless. We vise-fanatics tend to speculate and guess at history, because we don't have access to it. Your experiences are like open windows into a world which is otherwise obscured from our view.

Thanks again!

 

[airbuff101]

Rob,
Thank you for your very unique perspective on the Wilton products.
You've contributed excellent information.
It is much appreciated and I hope to read more in the future.
Stick around.

airbuff

 

[L5wolvesf]

. . . Wilton left their casting free from C.O.O on their 1740's, 1750's . . .

The reason the names were no longer cast in the sides of the Tradesman vises is because of private brand customers, The cost of pouring separate castings for those customers would have added a lot of cost in inventory. So the vises began having the cavity on the side so that more than one brand could use the same castings and then have a label put into it and other paint options.

Hi,

New guy here. I just want to be sure I understand this statement correctly. Not all Wilton 1750 vices had Wilton cast into them? So the vice I have with 1750 cast into the static side could be a Wilton. Would it be OK with y’all if I post a pic here for an ID?

L

 

[Steve Vincent]

Thank all of your for your time and effort in posting this information. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your post and learning about these Wilton Vises.

During my recent education on Wilton's Machinist, I have had the opportunity to purchase two of Wilton's largest. What I have is the 101106 800N.

For those of you that would like to own one of the largest, if not the largest, Wilton Bullet Style vises, I have one or two for sale. I have also have a listing in the classified section of this forum. I threw out a price of $800.00 because I had to, but I am looking for offers.

Thanks again to all of the contributors and moderators of this site. I have, and will continue to enjoy your input.

Steve Vincent

 

[autopts]

Thank all of your for your time and effort in posting this information. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all of your post and learning about these Wilton Vises.

During my recent education on Wilton's Machinist, I have had the opportunity to purchase two of Wilton's largest. What I have is the 101106 800N.

I threw out a price of $800.00 because I had to, but I am looking for offers.

Steve Vincent

That I think is a fair price for a end user. Its hard to tell its size from the photo. Its Huge!!!

 

[disaster1277]

really enjoyed all the work you' ve done learned more here than on the wilton web site i have a question about a wilton vise i purchased a few years back its a 2 1/2 in. machinest vise model # 825 about 2 in. below the static jaw thier is a small 1/2 in. long x 1/4 in. wide arrow head with the # 13 in the middle of the arrow head also on the top of the swivel base plate. serial # 101009 if anyone can shed some light on this it would be greatly appreciated. by the way i did contact wilton but no help.

 

[Steve Vincent]

The Wilton 800N that I have for sale is also on ebay. Item #110791207793.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110791207793