Wilton Vises, from a great C2 to a messed up C3?

[Avispex]

A few years ago I was lucky enough to buy a very nice 1980's model Wilton C2 vise. Recently when I needed to raise some cash in a hurry I listed it on Ebay for a large amount when I was kind of grasping at straws and to my surprise and regret, it sold. I should have pulled the listing as soon as I realized that my other listings had raised the cash I needed, but I was pretty sure no one would buy mine. But somebody did. So now that one is gone.

I then used some of that money to buy a rather sorry looking C3, which is probably too big for my needs and is in far worse shape than the C2 was. From the pictures I have, it appears to be an older model of the C3. I know that there have been several different weights of the C3 over the years and I feel pretty confident that this must be one of the lighter ones.The front jaw is much more rounded than in the current version which appears to have flat sides and to be thicker front to back. The one I have seems to have been pretty hammered on all over, but I am hoping that I can straighten that out a bit with some patient filing perhaps? It is missing both pipe jaws and there seems to be something wrong with the horseshoe collar in the front behind the handle. My hope is that the collar was just worn and not that the holes for the little bolts have all been stripped and that I will discover Swiss cheese under there.

I will update the thread once I pick it up later this week and find out exactly what the damage is with this one. If the collar is defective I can get a replacement for under $20, but that is the only inexpensive replacement part for the whole vise. Almost anything else will more than double my purchase price, so I have my fingers crossed that I can restore it to functional without too much grief or expense.

Here are the pictures I have so far. I am thinking of calling this one "The Hulk", big green and ugly.

I'd appreciate any information anyone has about this model. I'm actually not too upset about it being from the lesser version of C3s because I am already a bit concerned about it being pretty overkill to my needs, so It is really more of a C2.5 I guess.

Andy

 

[bigcaddy]

Its hard to make that assessment but there could be a beauty under all of the green. The anvil area of the vise looks worn but a belt sander can make that new again.

All of the "battle scars" on the castings will almost fade away with some fresh paint and a quick touch up with a scotch brite wheel will put shine on the jaw inserts and handle.

The retaining collar does look a bit toasted from what i see. It looks like somebody has drilled out 2 extra holes so you might have a bit of a project there but no need to complain.

Learn from this and apply it to your next vise. We were all green at one point and you can't exactly go take a class on how to rehab old bench vises.

Post more pictures when you get your hands on your Schiller Park Hulk

 

[drivesitfar]

Nice big old Wilton. i'm thinking you probably don't really need the pipe jaws and everything else looks to be in pretty decent shape. the horseshoe piece holding your screw in might need a little lovin but i'm sure you'll figure out that issue.

Vise **** please when you get Mr. Wilton in your hands.

good luck

 

[bluebolt]

That looks like a solid start for a very nice vise. KMScott on here makes new pipe jaws http://wiltonviseparts.net/pipe-jaws-for-the-wilton-combination-vises/

 

[Avispex]

Thanks for that link. Those pipe jaws are definitely a lot cheaper than the others I have found online.

Is there a good source for the small rubber rings that go on each end of the handle? I know many of these vises lack these, but it isn't in the parts list for some reason of available replacement parts. I assume you can just stretch these back on?

Thanks,

Andy

 

[oldldh]

Yes you can stretch some new "finger savers" back on...

PM "Maclin" on this forum...he has what you need...

 

[EOC_Jason]

Yeah, Maclin would be the guy for the finger savers... Mr. Scott might also have some if you buy parts from him.

Not sure what is up with that front collar and handle. It kind of looks like it got wore a little seeing as how the inner ring is at an angle. I'm sure it could all be fixed to work with a little elbow grease and some ingenuity.

I'm sure once it gets repainted it will look 150% better. All too often people turn their noses up at a vise that has a little surface rust or the paint job is all scraped up.... But underneath the vise is still usually in excellent shape.

 

[drivesitfar]

I just did a member search for Maclin and not anybody listed under that name. any other name or spelling or help is appreciated because I need a box of these rubber stays.

 

[oldldh]

Try going to my profile oldldh, and look under my "friends" list, he's on there...

 

[KMScott]

I just did a member search for Maclin and not anybody listed under that name. any other name or spelling or help is appreciated because I need a box of these rubber stays.

A box? Here is his listing on e-bay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vise-Finger...545?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4618eb4129

 

[drivesitfar]

now I know a box is optimistic but I have a few projects lined up and I hate smashing my fingers as much as the next person.

thanks again Kevin for helping with this and probably hadn't ordered any because didn't know which size or sizes I would need. since I rarely if ever smash a finger with anything under a 3 inch jaw what size would I need for the handles on the 4 inch vises and the 6 to 8 inch ones?

maybe two boxes so I won't run out?

Oldie your friends did show Maclin, but a members search didn't go figure. thanks

 

[KMScott]

I'd appreciate any information anyone has about this model. I'm actually not too upset about it being from the lesser version of C3s because I am already a bit concerned about it being pretty overkill to my needs, so It is really more of a C2.5 I guess.

Andy

Andy
The spindle groove will need some work, I have repaired a few of these and have a 600S that needs attention too. If you know how to weld and have access to a lathe the repair will not be to hard. It looks like to me that the area that pulls back the dynamic jaw support is very worn, shows a tapered angle but should be square. Your green Wilton will finish up nicely like BigCaddy mentioned. Good luck and share your progress.

 

[Avispex]

You guys are awesome. Thanks for that Ebay link. I just bought a set. (only 7 more available now...)

I picked up the Hulk vise this morning and it was a bit of a surprise. It turns out that it only has a 5" jaw. There had been no fraud or deception involved, just my estimation from the pictures and my memory from the brief glimpse I had in person made me think it was bigger than my C-2. Oddly enough, it is bigger than my C-2. I haven't seen if there is a date yet or taken any pictures, but I will very soon and at that point I am willing to take any and all suggestions for restoration.

First, the good news. I like it and I didn't have to spend an arm and a leg. $126 out the door. I consider myself fortunate considering it was an online auction situation and frequently the public auction prices on these head straight for the stratosphere. It seems to be mostly good and should eventually be a perfectly good user vise. I like the curves a bit better than the slightly more squat and blocky C-2 that I am reluctantly parting with. The issue with the horseshoe collar at the base of the handle looks completely reparable. I don't see any extra holes. If this is a C-2, it must be an older style because it doesn't say C-2 anywhere I can see and it is shaped differently than the modern ones.

Now the bad. It really does look pretty beaten on. I may have to set a slightly lower bar for restoring this one because it would take a ton of work to get out all of these dents and at this point, I am not sure it is worth it. One of the tabs appears to have been welded so I assume there was a break at one point. There also seems to be some weld on the stationary jaw near where the jaw insert bolts in on one side, so that might have been some damage as well. The pipe jaws are in fact missing, as was previously speculated, and regular nuts are keeping the jaw from swiveling instead of the regular type of collars.

Pictures soon.

Andy

 

[Steevo]

I'd swear I saw that gren monster in an auction listing a few days ago.
A government surplus sale . . . in Utah?

 

[drivesitfar]

Mr. Scott you are going to have to tell us how you manage to put up such nice vise **** even when there are issues to point out. what program do you use to put the little information boxes with the arrows showing the part of the vise you are talking about.

by the way is the C2 or C3 ready for pictures to post yet?

Edit: Andy you must have been posting as i was typing. read your post and looks like you have a workable vise and will advise if able or just watch from now on.

good luck

 

[KMScott]

5" jaw width? Can this be true. Someone must have narrowed the Static and Dynamic supports.

Dean
Google Jing and install it, it is free. Play with it and you can figure it out. I then upload the picture to PicMonkey and re-size it, it to is free.

 

[mrborohachi]

Just wondering how much did you get for your C2 vice?

 

[Avispex]

I'd swear I saw that gren monster in an auction listing a few days ago.
A government surplus sale . . . in Utah?

Good memory. Yes, you did see that. Public Surplus in Utah. Home of the green monster vises.

Andy

 

[Avispex]

Just wondering how much did you get for your C2 vice?

I think it was about $420 or $440. I definitely did not have the most expensive one listed on there by a long shot. Unfortunately, the Ebay shipping calculator messed up and charged the buyer about $66 and it will be closer to $100, so I am going to lose a good bot of that between the shipping overages, ebay fees, paypal fees, and taxes.

Andy

 

[Avispex]

Re: Wilton Vises, from a great C2 to a messed up C2?

OK, I have had a few more minutes to look over the Hulk and there are some pretty significant differences between it and my old C2, which I am now ready to pack up and ship off to the west coast tomorrow.

The C2 weighs 105 lbs., is 11.5" tall and about 19.5" long with a 5" wide jaw.

The Hulk weighs 150 lbs. (without the pipe jaws or swivel locks), is about 13.5 " tall and about 22" long with a 5" jaw.

I cleaned off the slide at the bottom of the movable jaw cylinder and the only number is 175. Could that really be January 1975?

Here are some comparison pictures of the two vises. (before I post these, I will quickly say that although I am an infrequent lurker here, I am pretty active on the OWWM forums and over there most people prefer as many pictures as possible, from as many angles as possible. I don't know if it is the same here, but if not, I apologize for the pic frenzy)

This one reminds me of Elephant seals fighting over the beach. Hulk wins....

Now for the Hulk specific pics of the problem issues and such..

The date??

Sad looking anvil

Welded tab-

Missing tail cap-

Pretty sloppy rear jaw repair. I guess they weren't planning on unbolting anything here ever again...

Well worn flare. I'm not sure how to build this back up, but I think there must be a good way to fix this.

And I will need a new collar to fix this up.

I can take more pics if anybody is curious about anything that I did not show. Perhaps this was an early C2, or maybe some other model that has been discontinued. If anybody does know what this is I would love to find out. Aside from those relatively minor issues, I have about 150 lbs. of metal to work with here, so I hope I can make something halfway decent and functional out of this. I don't think I will ever make this one look too refined, but considering that it had been used in a school shop, I figure the look is part of the story.

Andy

 

[drivesitfar]

so you basicly got $500 for the "little" wilton? great price!! good thing because you are going to need time and money to fix the Green monster because that vise has been to war. i'm not sure i'd invest a ton of money on a vise that has been welded and that has odd size jaws, but it is a big Wilton and if you like it I wish you the best in your effort.

by the way I and probably "we" at GJ enjoy vise and tool pictures and since you have a talent for getting all the angles post as many as you like for us to see and possibly help you if you need any.

Edit: VIRUS attached to some of the Jing free downloads so download only from their site if you want to be able to do what KMScott adds to his awesome pictures. lost my outlook program and all contacts trying to remove all the issues off the free download site so be careful.

 

[oldldh]

Kermit has been rode hard and put up wet....

It will take some serious work to return to it former glory...

By the way, don't worry about the welded-on tab on the base, new bases are available...at a price, from Wilton...new pipe jaws are available from www.wiltonviseparts.net...

Good luck, and keep us informed...too many pictures are just barely enough...

It will be a beast when finished...

 

[EOC_Jason]

Nice pics... always a treat to see a comparison like that.

Anyone else notice how thick the cylinder wall is on the hulk vs the newer model? I guess mostly to accommodate the extra weight and longer tube.

I would believe that stamp, 1975 sounds right. I think that style might have carried on through the early 80's, though I'm no expert on Wiltons.

I *think* I saw C.BRAXMAIER sell one like that on eBay a while back. You might want to try PMing him on the forum and see what info he might have to contribute.

If you don't have a lathe you might want to check some local fab shops to see if they can weld the handle back up to at least near OEM specs. Alternatively I could picture grinding it down flush, the sliding a new ring to that spot and welding it in place.

 

[bluebolt]

I agree with KMScott, that is a narrowed C3. The "driver" side has not been narrowed as much as the "passenger" side" from what I can see from the pics.

 

[Avispex]

I can't believe he called the Hulk "Kermit." So insulting.

So, after Bluebolt's comment I went to look at the vise once again to try to see if I could detect any sign that this vise was originally a C3 that has been narrowed slightly at the jaws to make it a 5" wide C2. I also tried to look up old specifications of the C2 and C3 and see if I could solve the puzzle that way.

Here is where I stand on it. I don't think this started life as a C3 and had the jaws narrowed. Firstly, most of the apparent asymmetry is due to my photography and the lighting. A little has to do with slight variation in the curvature at the sides where the casting marks disrupt the normal curves. Secondly, I could not detect any apparent alteration in the casting, so if they did narrow the jaws, they did it with extreme symmetry, care and accuracy. Considering how they did everything else to this vise with the maximum amount of careless brutality, it seems unlikely that they would have deliberately mangled it so fastidiously. Thirdly, I compared the vise to pictures of older C3 vises from the approximate same era. The flare at the jaw looks identical to the flare on this vise, which is to say, extremely slight. If the jaw had been narrowed 1/2" on each side then there would have been no flare at all and the vaguely circular shape visible where the flat of teh side of the jaw meets the contour of the casting would have extended almost the whole side of the vise. As it is, it has the same approximate proportion as the C3 does originally. Fourthly, the C3 from this approximate era weighed 225 lbs. The Hulk only weighs 150 lbs. I strongly doubt that 4 wafers of iron and steel, approximately circular with a 2" diameter and thickness of 1/2" each would weigh 75 lbs and account for the difference in weight between my vise and the older style C3.

Having said all of that, on a forum with as many Wilton experts and general vise aficionados as this one, I would think somebody would be able to resolve this very easily without any speculation whatsoever, but perhaps due to the high flow rate on this forum, those people haven't read or are not interested in this thread. My hope is that somebody familiar with the Wilton vises of this era would know the exact specs of the various models and we could narrow it down in a snap. I do think it is strange that there do not seem to be casting marks to identify this, especially if it is from 1975.

Aside from the issue of the exact model, I do not think I am interested in investing a ton of money in this or in trying to make it as good as new cosmetically. I am going to try to get it to fully functional and perhaps cleaned up a bit, but aside from that, there are too many warts and blemished here and yet the thing is ready to get back to work. That is just the spirit I am hoping for in my tools, so I am going to try to honor that durability with a minimum amount of polish.

 

[oldldh]

What's wrong with Kermit???

It ain't easy being green!!!

 

[EDGAR]

Re: Wilton Vises, from a great C2 to a messed up C2?

Someone on GJ has one of that particular model because he posted a picture of it stating that it was a Wilton C3 and the weight stated for it was 158 lbs but the jaw width was 6". It looks exactly like yours. Maybe the jaw width was indeed reduced "professionally" when the vise was new for some particular need and before it was used in the school.

 

[Avispex]

Thanks Edgar. Your picture does seem like a very close match and although the casting marks are different, it does show the expanded flat section on the sides on my vise, so perhaps mine was width enhanced for comfort.

Andy