Winch questions

[Jeff Ivers]

I have had a 1500 pound winch with steel cable installed in my enclosed car trailer for about 30 years. I used it once to pull a full size 3000 pound plus car into the trailer. Now that I have a Side by Side (SXS), that I occasionally take to unknown trails, I was thinking I might benefit from moving that winch to the SXS.

When I started researching the issue, I discovered all the winches being offered for installation on my model of SXS (that weighs less than 1000 pounds) are rated from 2500 pounds to 6000 pounds. Is this just an issue of product sellers trying to take advantage of "bigger is better" mentality to increase their profits? Or, is there some logical reason one should have a winch rated many times the weight of the vehicle to be winched?

In the trailer, I did not have a fairlead, but when using on a SXS I can see where a fairlead is probably needed as the tie off point for the winch may not be directly ahead of the winch. Am I correct that the fairlead should be designed so that the open area between the rollers or edges is about the same width as the spool width on the winch?

Most of the winch mountings available are designed to place the winch on the front of the SXS. If one gets stuck in the wilds are you better off trying to pull the SXS forward or is one better advised to try to back out of the obstacle? Keep in mind that I am not into extreme offroading, but am looking at having some way to get unstuck when by myself if the mud puddle I think I have to drive through turns out not to have a bottom.

 

[Bad Habit]

There is a difference between pulling a rolling vehicle straight onto a trailer vs. trying to extract a vehicle mired in mud, or up over an obstacle, especially with a high probability of being off angle. That's where the oversizing comes from. You definitely would need a fairlead, and yes, the width of the spool. If you are staying with the steel cable, get a roller fairlead, if changing to synthetic, get the smooth one. You can also carry shackles and other gear where you can double up and have twice the pulling power at half the speed (and half the distance).

Front or rear is up to you but majority is on the front, probably because of ease of mounting, powering it, etc and makes it easier for other uses for it. If you have the right gear, and anchor points, it is possible to pull yourself backwards with a front mounted winch, just not easy

 

[Beerhippie]

The Rhino I used to use at the local ski area had a receiver mount winch with receivers fore and aft and plugs for the electrical. That was the schizz!

 

[PCustoms]

1000lbs (is that all it weighs?) burried past the axles in mud is going to take a lot more then a 1k winch.

There's also duty cycle to consider if you have a long pull Or max load.

I used to run 10k or 12k on small trucks.

 

[Bert_]

Most of the winch ratings are BS. It might pull the rated force for a second or two before it trips out or bursts into flame.

I think a guy could take the advertised rating by 1/2 or maybe 2/3, and have a realistic pull rating.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Most of the winch ratings are BS. It might pull the rated force for a second or two before it trips out or bursts into flame.

I think a guy could take the advertised rating by 1/2 or maybe 2/3, and have a realistic pull rating.

I have used a winch my side-by-side for 20 years and never had a problem

 

[PCustoms]

I have used a windshield my side-by-side for 20 years and never had a problem

Windshields are good too.

Most of the winch ratings are BS. It might pull the rated force for a second or two before it trips out or bursts into flame.

What are you basing this on?

I've been through 3 winches, based on what I pulled I have no reason to doubt their stated capacity

 

[Dig Doug]

I have a winch on both jeeps
a multi mount winch reciever hitch style for my truck and trailer
&
a winch on my can am

I have only used my winch 1 time for myself !

can am is 1880lbs has a Viper 4500lb winch. When someone gets stuck in a river or in a canyon off a hillside you want as much winch as possible!

yes, I winch both of em out in the can am!
get the rope not the wire

 

[Renegade1LI]

I just bought a polaris ranger crew, came with a 4500lb winch with synthetic cable. I would look for what fits, looks nicer, but at least 3500lb. Also get a couple soft shackles and a 1" kinetic recovery rope 20 or 30'. You could always add a second winch or a snatched block, can never be too prepared.

 

[Gangly]

General rule of thumb is a winch rated for 2.5 times your weight, at least for recovery purposes. Go with a synthetic rope and soft shackles, not steel.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Windshields are good too.



What are you basing this on?

I've been through 3 winches, based on what I pulled I have no reason to doubt their stated capacity

Stupid siri doesn’t listen to me good.

I have used a pulley a few times and have pulled out bigger side by sides than mine.

General rule of thumb is a winch rated for 2.5 times your weight, at least for recovery purposes. Go with a synthetic rope and soft shackles, not steel.

I have seen to much rope break on winches so I have always had steel cable.

 

[cannuck]

Most of the winch ratings are BS. It might pull the rated force for a second or two before it trips out or bursts into flame.

I think a guy could take the advertised rating by 1/2 or maybe 2/3, and have a realistic pull rating.

Yup. Overseas made winches come from the same factory as shop vacs that claim to get over 5HP from a 1.6KW receptacle. I use RV winches for hoisting and to lift 1k lbs. you need at least a 2k rated winch with a 2 part block (i.e. supposed to be able to exert 4k of pull at the hook). My 10k (major brand made in USA) in chore truck is used constantly and with drum full barely has enough line pull to skid it (8K lbs.) on level, dry dirt - so my guess is winch OEMs use that as some kind of rating standard and the vacuum cleaner guys use wet grass instead of dry dirt or something.

To the OP: I would suggest a 2k/2.5k rated winch and quick mounts front and rear. You can use 3 pole lift gate plugs and sockets (get them at HD truck parts store) to plug into power. I am now firmly into the synthetic rope camp and slowly changing my winches over. Be sure to put a block to double your line pull and keep a sling to rig to pull points in your toolbox

 

[liliysdad]

The “rule” has always been 1.5x the weight of the vehicle. I’ve never heard 2.5x, not that more wiggle room is ever a bad thing. That rule is a lot easier to abide by with UTVs, but gets a little stickier in full size rigs.

As for synthetic rope…it’s neat and light and super safe, but I still prefer wire. Synthetic does not like being exposed to the sun and the elements, and it doesn’t do well with sharp corners and abrasion.

If your winch is going to be covered or stored inside all the time, and used for nothing but vehicle recovery, synthetic is the way to go. If not, you might consider learning how ton safely use wire rope. It’s worked just fine for a very long time. It didn’t suddenly become a deadly nuisance when Dyneema hit the market.

 

[Retired dozer fixer]

Most of the winch ratings are BS. It might pull the rated force for a second or two before it trips out or bursts into flame.

I think a guy could take the advertised rating by 1/2 or maybe 2/3, and have a realistic pull rating.

Also remember that winch ratings are usually based on first layer line pull. Ratings drop as another layer of cable is added to winch drum. Most winches have 3 or more layers of cable

 

[Kscardsfan]

1.5 times your vehicle weight used to be the bare minimum. I usually go double to be safe. Learn how to use your ****** blocks and shackles etc. and you can do amazing work with a small winch.

 

[Gangly]

Stupid siri doesn’t listen to me good.

I have used a pulley a few times and have pulled out bigger side by sides than mine.




I have seen to much rope break on winches so I have always had steel cable.

Most winch rope, if I'm not mistaken, is Dyneema. Rope is far more durable, and much lighter weight, and floats which is great for recovery in muddy/swampy areas. Most importantly though is when it breaks, it doesn't kill people, it just kinda falls. Also, tying a new hook or recovery point into a snapped synthetic rope takes all of 2 minutes with no sliced or stabbed fingers, and that's including getting the tool out of the glovebox.

I've been running Dyneema and soft shackles for almost 6 years now and will never go back to steel.

 

[liliysdad]

Dyneema and similar products are amazing. They also hate UV exposure and are horribly prone to abrasion.

I don’t want to have to leave my winches covered, and I dont like to have to worry about what the winch line is rubbing on, against, over, etc.

If I had a dedicated rock crawler, etc I’d be running synthetic without a doubt. For general use it and forget about purposes, wire rope suits me fine.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Most winch rope, if I'm not mistaken, is Dyneema. Rope is far more durable, and much lighter weight, and floats which is great for recovery in muddy/swampy areas. Most importantly though is when it breaks, it doesn't kill people, it just kinda falls. Also, tying a new hook or recovery point into a snapped synthetic rope takes all of 2 minutes with no sliced or stabbed fingers, and that's including getting the tool out of the glovebox.

I've been running Dyneema and soft shackles for almost 6 years now and will never go back to steel.

Yes. I have been off-roading in jeeps for 50 years, I just prefer steel.

 

[Jeff Ivers]

There is a difference between pulling a rolling vehicle straight onto a trailer vs. trying to extract a vehicle mired in mud, or up over an obstacle, especially with a high probability of being off angle. That's where the oversizing comes from. You definitely would need a fairlead, and yes, the width of the spool. If you are staying with the steel cable, get a roller fairlead, if changing to synthetic, get the smooth one. You can also carry shackles and other gear where you can double up and have twice the pulling power at half the speed (and half the distance).

Front or rear is up to you but majority is on the front, probably because of ease of mounting, powering it, etc and makes it easier for other uses for it. If you have the right gear, and anchor points, it is possible to pull yourself backwards with a front mounted winch, just not easy

Thank you for confirming the fairlead question and explaining the difference for rope or wire. My particular winch, though listed as a 1500 pound winch, shows a rolling load capacity of 1925 pounds on a 45 degree slope and a 7525 pound capacity for a 6 degree slope (That is why it handled pulling a 3000 pound vehicle into my trailer). Again, I am not into extreme off-roading - I don't think I am likely to ever go on a trail with more than a 30 degree slope. What I am concerned about is driving into a mud puddle on a trail and discovering the puddle is deeper than the terrain indicated and the mud is the slimy type that prevents the 4-wheel drive from powering out. It would seem to me that the winch I have might be sufficient for such a scenario provided I put the vehicle in neutral and remove the parking brake.

Does anyone know where one can obtain info on how much additional load is added by pulling a vehicle through mud versus air?

For those of you recommending replacement with a much larger capacity winch how about sharing your ratings at 6 degree and 45 degree slopes? Most of the ads I have seen fail to provide that information.

 

[Bad Habit]

Here is more info on recovery than you could ever hope for...

The info you seek is in here

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/4-30-31/fm4-30-31.pdf

 

[Bert_]

What are you basing this on?

I've been through 3 winches, based on what I pulled I have no reason to doubt their stated capacity

From what I have seen, the rating is the most the winch will ever pull.

Jeff's winch is rated 1500lbs. That's probably how much it will pull on the first layer right before it stalls. Not a real useful number because you can't use it that way for any amount of time.

 

[liliysdad]

Jeff's winch is rated 1500lbs. That's probably how much it will pull on the first layer right before it stalls

That’s literally what it means….and it’s just as useful as any other arbitrary number.

Quality winches will usually do considerably more work than their rating suggests, cheap offshore generic winches will do less.

I’d take an 8000lb Warn over a 15000ln Badlands or Smittybilt all day long.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Most winch rope, if I'm not mistaken, is Dyneema. Rope is far more durable, and much lighter weight, and floats which is great for recovery in muddy/swampy areas. Most importantly though is when it breaks, it doesn't kill people, it just kinda falls. Also, tying a new hook or recovery point into a snapped synthetic rope takes all of 2 minutes with no sliced or stabbed fingers, and that's including getting the tool out of the glovebox.

I've been running Dyneema and soft shackles for almost 6 years now and will never go back to steel.

Also smaller diameter so you can get way more on the drum. Love that stuff.

 

[slowtwitch73]

That’s literally what it means….and it’s just as useful as any other arbitrary number.

Quality winches will usually do considerably more work than their rating suggests, cheap offshore generic winches will do less.

I’d take an 8000lb Warn over a 15000ln Badlands or Smittybilt all day long.

Evidently the Bellevue/Warns were quite under rated...

 

[liliysdad]

Evidently the Bellevue/Warns were quite under rated...

I really think they just picked a random *** number.

The Belleview was rated at 6000, when Warn bought them they were rerated to 8000 with zero changes.

 

[GeoBruin]

Dyneema and similar products are amazing. They also hate UV exposure and are horribly prone to abrasion.

I think you need to qualify that statement. Dyneema has excellent UV and abrasion resistance as far a synthetic fibers go, certainly much better than the nylon or polyester slings you're going to be using as part of your winch/rigging gear. I assume you meant compared to a steel cable.

 

[liliysdad]

I think you need to qualify that statement. Dyneema has excellent UV and abrasion resistance as far a synthetic fibers go, certainly much better than the nylon or polyester slings you're going to be using as part of your winch/rigging gear. I assume you meant compared to a steel cable.

Your assumption is absolutely correct. I used Dyneema in particular because it’s the best of the bunch…. And still very susceptible to the elements.

 

[slowtwitch73]

Seems like it would be a straightforward calculation based off the motor specs, shaft/gear specs etc. But yeah.. only the Shadow knows.

 

[liliysdad]

Seems like it would be a straightforward calculation based off the motor specs, shaft/gear specs etc. But yeah.. only the Shadow knows.

The reality is that no one cares about load rating at specific grades, etc.

You buy a winch that’s big enough to do what you need, and you learn how to use it. If it winds up not being big enough…you buy a bigger one. It’s not rocket science.

 

[Farmall450]

Seems like it would be a straightforward calculation based off the motor specs, shaft/gear specs etc. But yeah.. only the Shadow knows.

Normally there's some safety factor, etc. Obviously it isn't too large if Warn sells 9000-9500# winches with 5/16 cable (rated around 9800#).

 

[Farmall450]

The reality is that no one cares about load rating at specific grades, etc.

You buy a winch that’s big enough to do what you need, and you learn how to use it. If it winds up not being big enough…you buy a bigger one. It’s not rocket science.

Other than top shelf winches, the cost difference is so minor it would be silly not to size up.

OEMs do this too - factory winches on my AC ATVs (under 1000#, closer to 700#) are 2500#+.