Wind power??? "off the grid"

[brad d]

What is your take on this?

Is the pay back just way too long? I dream of not being on the grid... but i know that would never happen.

Some units just hook up to your meter and could spin it backwards or slow it down.

http://www.pacwind.net/products.html

http://www.skystreamenergy.com/

http://racecom.com/

 

[rsanter]

off grid
good luck

you will need some big batteries to store the energy

another option is to go solar and wind into some batteries and have back up generator

\bob

 

[Torque1st]

The utilities may require a second meter to be installed with ratchets to make sure each spins the proper direction. They don't want to buy back power from the turbine at the full rate.

 

[rsanter]

if you are a small genrator then you need to reques a 'net meter' be installed. that way it will go both directions.

generally if you are a small generator of power then you will get full rate for your power on the basis that sometimes you will be feding the grid an other times you will be pulling from. you only will have to pay for the 'net' difference in energy.
if you make more power than you use then you will get a credit on you account but not a check

bob

 

[MNMuskie]

If you can stay on the grid you'll pay a lot less because you won't have to store the energy. the only reason I can see being off the grid is if you don't currently have power hookup.

As far a power credits go, check your state's statutes. In MN and other states utility companies have to credit you at the market rate.

You should also check wind maps as some areas are not the best for wind power. In those areas you may be better off with solar.
http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/wind_maps.asp

 

[akdiesel]

I have been looking into this for about a year now. I just picked up a magazine that talks about wind power as well as solar power and heating. Lots of info in there.
I talked with a person that has one wind turbine and he powers his shop with it. No battery back up so when the wind is not blowing enough he is on the grid and when making power he sells it back to the power comp. for a third of what he is charged. But as mentioned earlier it is credited back to him at that rate and not in a check.
Solar power seems to be better in the southern states for the main reason that they have more consitant sunny day paterns.
If you live in a valley it seems to be the best place for the wind turbines.
I figure for my shop and house I use an average of 1800 kw a month. and for a brand that is a 3.5 kw wind generator at an average of $10,000 installed each I would probably get two of them and still be on the grid but not using nearly as much. I figure it will take approx 10 years to pay for itself. I am sure todays tech is much better now and the life of these items is also better as well as maintaince is also better.

 

[Torque1st]

The vertical axis wind turbines seem to be much simpler than the horizontal axis units and will produce power in much lower winds and don't have an overspeed problem. The verticle axis machines are also easier to mount. The vertical axis machines are also seen by birds as a solid object so they are not killed by them.

 

[MNDucatiMan]

If you can stay on the grid you'll pay a lot less because you won't have to store the energy. the only reason I can see being off the grid is if you don't currently have power hookup.

As far a power credits go, check your state's statutes. In MN and other states utility companies have to credit you at the market rate.

You should also check wind maps as some areas are not the best for wind power. In those areas you may be better off with solar.
http://www.windpoweringamerica.gov/wind_maps.asp

I am considering this when we buy a home this year. I will eventually have solar and wind power. I was considering wind power to start with since the winds are more active at times when my shop heat will need to be more active. Set the existing gas fired shop heat to a low but above freezing temperature and wire infrared electric heaters to the wind turbine and set the thermostats on them to 70 or so. Turbines come in both 240 and 120v models as do the infrared heat. Not needing much of anything for power conditioning allows for major efficiency.

The summer months see the central air of the home as a power consumer and the wind is not as active midsummer. Here is where solar power is needed.

But if I went solar first to put a ding in the AC costs it would also help heat the shop but there wont be as much being generated in the winter sun than the summer. I could augment the shop with a wood stove I already have. Since it is a garage and not the home low voltage DC LED lighting could be installed. A small amount of battery storage will produce many hours of light with this system as they are more efficient than incandescent lamps and an inverter would not be needed at all between them and the battery.

You are never going to save money by being off grid as you will need the ability to generate up to your peak usage. If you just size things right when the sun and or wind is really cooperating you can wind the meter back a bit. But when you need to fire up that big MIG welder or something you will be buying off the grid.

 

[Dragster Racer]

I think everyone is right about avoiding battery needs and staying on grid. I had done some looking at one point, and man it is tough to break even with those things. If you are looking at more than a 5 year payback, then repair, maintenance and replacement really start being items to consider in your numbers. Stinks to say, but if you are looking at it from an economic point of view, it won't work. If it did make sense, every factory around would put solar cells on the roof as a profit center. There are only a handful nationwide that have done this.

 

[nadogail]

You will need to do a Cost/Benefit Study based on your estimated consumption of power and your local regulatory conditions in Manitoba. Here in California and much of the US the Federal and State governments have made efforts to encourage alternative nergy through tax credits and enforced purchase of energy produced by the end user (you).

Given what I have just written, I will not presume to provide economic advice in your situation.

 

[sberry]

The problem with being off grid is when there are surge demands, welding, air comp, air cond etc.

 

[brad d]

I would never want to be off the grid.. I would just want the meter to spin backwards once and a while.. but it seems the windmills and what not are just not cheap/powerful enough to make it worth while..

 

[nate379]

My Dad looked at it and it was right around 30 years to save enough money to pay for the windmill. He of course didn't go ahead with it.

 

[nate379]

Holy cow!

If I used that much juice a month I'd have $350 electric bills!

If you live in a valley it seems to be the best place for the wind turbines.
I figure for my shop and house I use an average of 1800 kw a month.

 

[HOTFR8]

I am currently waiting to here back from an installer as I will be doing this soon (hopefully). The Government here is offering a rebate for those that install Solar that feed back into the grid.

The system I am looking at is very new as it will if generating enough power feed back into the grid running my meter backwards giving me credit. If the power is off I would still have power for some time via a battery back up but only for lights and power as the heater oven etc. would be off.

 

[Shocker]

I know a guy that lives off grid. He said it ran about 45k in total for his setup. He is at the 14k foot level in Colorado. No power up there. 3000sqft home. Nice setup.

 

[nate379]

The ones my Dad was looking at were right around $16,000. They are the cheaper ones.

His electric is around $40 a month so figure they spend just under $500 a year on electric.

That's right around 30 years of on the grid power to equal the cost of the windmill. Now they are in their late 40s so I suppose it's possible for it to pay for itself at some point in their lives... but yeah... not worth it.

In most places, there isn't enough wind to run 100% off the grid using electricity as you would normally. Would piss me off if the microwave quit in the middle of my popcorn before sitting down to watch a movie that I can't watch either.

 

[Injected65]

I have been looking into this for about a year now. I just picked up a magazine that talks about wind power as well as solar power and heating. Lots of info in there.
I talked with a person that has one wind turbine and he powers his shop with it. No battery back up so when the wind is not blowing enough he is on the grid and when making power he sells it back to the power comp. for a third of what he is charged. But as mentioned earlier it is credited back to him at that rate and not in a check.
Solar power seems to be better in the southern states for the main reason that they have more consitant sunny day paterns.
If you live in a valley it seems to be the best place for the wind turbines.
I figure for my shop and house I use an average of 1800 kw a month. and for a brand that is a 3.5 kw wind generator at an average of $10,000 installed each I would probably get two of them and still be on the grid but not using nearly as much. I figure it will take approx 10 years to pay for itself. I am sure todays tech is much better now and the life of these items is also better as well as maintaince is also better.

Do you happen to have links or contact info for a 3.5kw generator for around $10,000. I started looking around this week and the local dealers (2 different brands) were quoting $10K installed for a 900w unit and $50K installed for a 5K. 3.5K for $10K would bring the price vs power back to a more reasonable figure for me.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[TRTOOLSUPPLY]

Here is another area to look at HEATING,go to:

Gary Reysa's site:www.builditsolar.com.

 

[truck]

why not build your own? Plenty of DIY ideas and sites that talk about it for around $300.

Truck

 

[Shocker]

Injected65, you are saying that you got a quote to install a 5kw generator for 50 thousand dollars? That just can't be right.

There are industrial generators in the 100kw range locally for under 20k. Can you clarify?

Thanks

 

[Injected65]

I'll have to check my notes that I left at work for the specific brand, but I was also taken back by the pricing. Here is one company that I had bookmarked here at the house. http://www.bergey.com/ They have a 10Kw unit for $30K plus around $20K for the tower plus install. Maybe I am just looking in the wrong places. If you have a link to the one you describe, please post it.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[nate379]

Would like to see the info on that system as well!

The ones my Dad looked into were not very big... I can't remember the Kw though. I know it was more or less the cheapest and smallest that would make sense to use for home electric... and it was $16,000.
Also some places don't allow them or you have to go through all sorts of red tape. They do make some noise and messes with birds as well.


Good info here...

Here’s a quick test on wind power feasibility, assuming you don’t live in a State with a subsidy program and you want to recoup your investment in 15 years or less. Given these conditions, you should consider wind power if:

1) Your electricity costs more than 11 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh)
2) Your area has an average wind speed of 11 miles-per-hour (mph) or more, and,
3) You have one (1) acre of property or more.

 

[Shocker]

Well, I guess the difference would be the fact that it is just part of the whole system and not really suitable for a home use. I was just unaware of the costs for the whole thing.

 

[VHF]

HomePower Magazine (www.homepower.com) is one of the best resources for anyone thinking about making their own wind (or photovoltaic) power. There have been several recent write-ups of actual wind generator installations, with detailed system costs. There have been a couple articles recently on calculating system payback.

A small wind generator will not make much of a dent in typical home power usage, although it might be good for an off-grid cabin with limited electrical loads. A wind generator large enough to make a significant contribution will require a sizable (i.e. expensive) tower.

There is at least one wind generator designed for direct grid-intertie where any power you are not using immediately is fed back into the grid, which reduces the system cost a little by eliminating batteries.

Incidentally, HomePower reports that the vertical axis wind generators they have tested produce less power under the same conditions and they would not recommend a vertical axis machine for serious power production.