Window vs Mini-splits?

[mpire]

So my friend had one window with two a/c units stuck in it side by side.

One was 10000 btu, the other was 8000 btu. Both new from wally world.

It was doing a poor job cooling off that 2 car garage yesterday.

Granted it has an non-insulated wood garage door.

So now I am thinking 18000 btu isn't going to cut it here in Florida for my larger 3 car garage.

My garage is approximately 10x32x20.

Are window units not as good as mini-splits?

 

[rlitman]

1BTU is 1BTU, no matter what kind of AC you're running.
I love my mini-split, but I use window ACs upstairs. I'd have mini-splits everywhere, if it weren't for the cost, but they are more efficient, which helps a bit.

 

[mpire]

Must be the poor insulation then.

 

[240sxguy]

Don't quote me here but logically I would think the air around those two units gets so damn hot because they are close together that they may not work all that well in such close proximity.

 

[Rosco]

Don't quote me here but logically I would think the air around those two units gets so damn hot because they are close together that they may not work all that well in such close proximity.

exactly. I had the same experience. Not sure why, maybe the a/c experts can chime in, but the side by side issue hurts the cooling capacity.

How big is the 3-car garage? If it were me I would go with a 24k BTU mini-split with inverter.

 

[mpire]

Its as small as you can possibly get and it still fit 3 cars in there.

 

[Rosco]

I bet the 18k mitsubishi I just installed in my apartment would cool that down if it is insulated.

 

[DHS]

Mpire I use a 18000 btu window unit to cool a 24'x54' mobile with no problem. I am in central fl too.

 

[mpire]

Thats what I was thinking originally.

I just don't want to go with the wrong capacity and regret it.

 

[antinym]

Hey, this post is about me!
I'm the first one to tell you not to use a window unit, unless of course:
1. You plan on moving in 12-18 months and
2. Someone gave you a free window unit to start.

Instead of going mini-split just do a full 2 ton air handler.

 

[antinym]

Also, I do need to insulate the garage door and fix the holes in the ceiling. But I'm not going to let that get in the way of the fun stuff to do in the garage

 

[Rosco]

Thats what I was thinking originally.

I just don't want to go with the wrong capacity and regret it.

If you upsize a mini-split with an inverter a little bit there will not be any issues. The inverter does not "hard start" and run at full capacity the entire time. When my Mitsu unit gets within 4 degrees of the desired temp the compressor and fan slow down, so much that you can barely hear it run. Due to my room size and insulation the 18k was at the top of my range and I have not regretted it. I can go from 98 degrees to 78 degrees in about 45 minutes to an hour, then I can barely hear it running after that.

 

[mpire]

Also, I do need to insulate the garage door and fix the holes in the ceiling. But I'm not going to let that get in the way of the fun stuff to do in the garage

Nooooo... this thread isn't about you.

Its about my "other" friend with several air conditioners in his garage.

 

[rlitman]

If you upsize a mini-split with an inverter a little bit there will not be any issues. The inverter does not "hard start" and run at full capacity the entire time. When my Mitsu unit gets within 4 degrees of the desired temp the compressor and fan slow down, so much that you can barely hear it run. Due to my room size and insulation the 18k was at the top of my range and I have not regretted it. I can go from 98 degrees to 78 degrees in about 45 minutes to an hour, then I can barely hear it running after that.

+1 to this. VERY good point. A good inverter mini-split can vary it's power down a lot.

 

[Falcon67]

Hey, this post is about me!
I'm the first one to tell you not to use a window unit, unless of course:
1. You plan on moving in 12-18 months and
2. Someone gave you a free window unit to start.

Instead of going mini-split just do a full 2 ton air handler.

The $299 12K unit from Lowes that I used in my old shop is still working fine after 13 years. I'll be putting a 15K in the new shop and keeping the extra $1000 in my pocket. A decent 10+ SEER unit will not run enough to pay back the difference between it and a mini-split IMHO. I don't live out there, I just play and maybe 10 hours a week or so.

 

[Jackfre]

Go to Fujitsu's site and run the heat loss/gain with and without insulation on your friends place...and yours to see how the load comes up. Remembr that "regular" manual J heat loss has an 18% factor for duct losses.

As far as your garage goes, it looks pretty tight for 3 cars. You should probably sell me one of the M Coupes. Coolest car going, imho!

The above comment about the inverter sizingitself to the load is pretty much correct. You do have to be careful to make sure you don't get stuck on the low btu point. With an oversized unitmyou may not get the dehu you want as the unit cycles off on the stat and the low end is to high. That's confusing! I had a guy put a 24kbtu unit in a super insulated house in ME. He sized it for heat but told his customer it would dehu. This summer the space is cold and moist. Classic oversized cooling condition. Min btu on low with the 24 is 10.5kbtu. Even in dry mode the unit would cycle off in a superinsulated space. Had he putin a 12kbtu, it's low end would be 3,600 btu and it would do an excellent job on dehu as well as heat.

 

[mpire]

OK, so I found an A/C only mini-split on sale.

Its 18k.

I measured the garage again, I swear its shrinking.

Approximately 20x26x10.

Its only 8 foot tall in some other places.

So I think 18k would be a good match.

I found an A/C only unit on sale.

I am very tempted to get it, and I am trying to decide if heat is worth another 500 bucks or not.

 

[rlitman]

I am very tempted to get it, and I am trying to decide if heat is worth another 500 bucks or not.

Do you use a heater in the winter? A heat pump such as this, is probably going to save you money on energy on those days near (but above) freezing.

 

[mpire]

I gave up on the whole heater idea. I probably won't even use the A/C but a couple times a week. I found a good deal on this Art Cool A/C system. It looks pretty, and I have experience installing it so I figure what the hell.

The recommendations have been all over the place as far as what size A/C to get. This one is 18,000 btu cooling only. I figure it should be good for my needs. The worst case scenario is that it won't get all the humidity out of the garage, and I can live with that.

The indoor unit is 24x36x4 so it shouldn't be obtrusive in my garage.

I still need to insulate the attic over the garage and replace the door seals.

Playing in my friends air conditioned garage was way too much fun, and its so ****** hot outside I start to rush projects.

 

[antinym]

Yesterday, it was colder in my garage than in my house..
The heat drains my energy so fast, I had to do the AC.
I say go for it, then we can have fix it days at your place!

 

[mpire]

Yesterday, it was colder in my garage than in my house..

i am green with envy.

I say go for it, then we can have fix it days at your place!

Consider it done.

 

[metaldad]

save your hard earned cash and buy a disposable window/ sleeve unit. yes, mini splits are more efficient, however, prepare for sticker shock upon qwote, and prepare yourself for a HIGH repair bill, not to mention long back order of parts, because it will break down.

 

[mpire]

save your hard earned cash and buy a disposable window/ sleeve unit. yes, mini splits are more efficient, however, prepare for sticker shock upon qwote, and prepare yourself for a HIGH repair bill, not to mention long back order of parts, because it will break down.

No window units allowed in my neighborhood, so that's not going to happen.

The Wall sleeve unit is going to run me around $700 plus I would have to cut a hole in my wall because the garage has no windows. There is only one spot I could cut the hole, and I am pretty sure that concrete block wall is holding up my house.

For $300 more I can avoid a fight with the HOA. I have spent thousands fighting the HOA at my last place. I think $300 is well worth it to keep them off my ***.

 

[[email protected]]

have you purchased? any pics? I am in the process of getting ready to buy. how much did you pay?

 

[mpire]

It just arrived about half an hour ago.

Code Item Qty Price Grand Total
12899 LAN181CNW / LAU181CNW - LG 18,000 BTU 13 SEER Art Cool Single Zone Ductless Cooling Only Air Conditioner - Outlet - All Sales Final 1 $1,095.00 $1,095.00
11698 MSW18425 - 25 Ft 18 AWG 4 Conductor Ductless Mini Split Shielded Stranded Wire Control Wire 1 $10.00 $10.00
12003 DH-16-I Universal Drain Hose for Ductless Mini Split Systems ( 25 Foot Length ) 1 $18.75 $18.75
11102 25 foot 1/4 LL 1/2 SL Lineset with Flare Fitting Connections For Ductless Mini-Split Systems 1 $107.95 $107.95

Subtotal: $1,231.70
Tax (7.00%): $86.22
Shipping Cost: $0.00
Grand Total: $1,317.92

http://www.acwholesalers.com/Ductless_air_conditioner_LG_mini_split_p/12899.htm

 

[green.bubbly]

That inside unit is sweet looking.

 

[oldgoat]

In some cases a split might be more practical, but for the money generally I think that a windown unit is the better buy. If installing it is a structural problem then it won't work, but I don't see where it would cost $700. for a sleeve. As far as the HOA that is an example of why I won't buy a house in a HOA.

 

[mpire]

That inside unit is sweet looking.

Yeah, its a pretty unit. Thats the gimmick I guess.

I bought it on price alone, but since I am putting it right in the middle of the garage on the wall I guess it won't be too ugly.

You can even get different color faces for it.

The new ones are actual picture frames that you can put photos in.

https://www.acwholesalers.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/LA181CNW_Submittal%20Data.pdf

 

[mpire]

In some cases a split might be more practical, but for the money generally I think that a windown unit is the better buy. If installing it is a structural problem then it won't work, but I don't see where it would cost $700. for a sleeve. As far as the HOA that is an example of why I won't buy a house in a HOA.

The wall sleeve A/C in 18000 btu with the sleeve and all the accessories worked out to $700-$800 just to start.

I must not be looking in the right places.

 

[vonhef]

The wall sleeve A/C in 18000 btu with the sleeve and all the accessories worked out to $700-$800 just to start.

I must not be looking in the right places.

I purchased a 18000 btu wall unit from lowes last month that is both AC & heat for between $600.00 - $700.00. A mini split with heat would have cost twice as much.

It has cooled my 24x24 shop very well during the 105+ deg temperatures.

 

[mpire]

Well, is the sleeve sold seperately?

No matter. How does your 18000 btu unit cool your shop? Any issues with humidity? The guys are making me paranoid that I got a unit that was too big.

My garage is 21x26.

 

[oldgoat]

With you being in Florida I would think that high humidity might be a problem. In a worst case you could always use a portable dehumidifier to remove excess that the AC doesn't get. I have a 22 x 26 and my AC works good, but I'd rather be a tad bit big to bring down the heat quickly than a little too small. Of course here we've been having about 40 days of 100+ weather.

 

[vonhef]

Well, is the sleeve sold seperately?

No matter. How does your 18000 btu unit cool your shop? Any issues with humidity? The guys are making me paranoid that I got a unit that was too big.

My garage is 21x26.

I don't think 18000 is to large for your shop (assuming you have good insulation?) Humidity in Oklahoma is probably much lower this summer than what you have., but an AC that size should control it well enough.

Edit: as for a sleeve... the AC I purchased was designed with a sleeve, that the inside slides into. I installed mine through the wall, so I built an angle iron support that the sleeve bolted to.

 

[hiwinder]

I just had a PTAC/Heat pump system installed. 14,000 BTU for a 24 x 24 x 12ft. space. It was half the price of a mini-split. It's not as quiet as a mini-split, but hell they use them all the time in motels and I always sleep well! It does a real good job cooling in hot humid NC; haven't used the heat yet.

 

[kyles974]

mpire,

very nice!

Please let us know how it works.

I also live in Florida (Pensacola)

 

[green.bubbly]

Well, is the sleeve sold seperately?

No matter. How does your 18000 btu unit cool your shop? Any issues with humidity? The guys are making me paranoid that I got a unit that was too big.

My garage is 21x26.

I doubt it will be too big. If it is and there is a low fan speed, that would work fine to get rid of the humidity.

 

[mpire]

Well, unfortunately one of the flaps was warped, so I have the outside unit set up, but no inside unit! They should be sending me a replacement any day now.

I am eager to get this thing going.

 

[mpire]

New indoor unit got here on Thursday.

I got it hung on the wall tonight.

I am going to try and run the lines through some conduit this time instead of buying that amazingly expensive line-set cover.

Details to follow.