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Windows and U value

26 Flatrod

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Feb 1, 2014
Messages
38
The contractor building my garage picked construction grade windows with a U value of .48 and I am wondering if this is ok for a garage.

Now for some more detail: I am in minnesota and will be using my garage on and off in the winter. the heated portion of my garage is 36 x 28 x 13' with 2 x 6 walls and 5 windows that are 2' x 4'. This is a working garage not a man cave so I will probably keep it it 55-65 most of the time. I have read that a U factor of .48 correlates to an R value of about 2. This is not fantastic, but the max U value I read is about .22 (or R4.5). This would be a super expensive window.

Should I be concerned about this since it is just a garage, or will that make a big difference if I multiply it by 5 windows.
 
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mtmgtz

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May 5, 2014
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I would be more concerned about how well the window seals up rather than just the U-factor. For example, a lot of windows constructed with a pure vinyl frame (no wood inside the vinyl) are prone to a lot of expansion and contraction and don't generally seal up around the moving components all that well. If they are not operable windows, that's different as well.

All windows **** when it comes to thermal performance really. I'd just get something that is decent U-factor, has quality frame construction and operates nicely.
 

Falcon67

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Merkel, TX
All windows **** when it comes to thermal performance really. I'd just get something that is decent U-factor, has quality frame construction and operates nicely.

That. you should be more worried about thermal transfer than any "R" factor on a window. Windows are essentially just big holes in a building envelope. We replaced all out builder aluminum frame windows with upgrade vinyl units year before last. Made a big difference. Glass is double pane with whatever gas in between and it still gets cold, and eventually so does the frame.
 

Saw

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May 28, 2014
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Illinois
Argon gas between the panes, dead air space. Eliminates condensation usually.
 

Zeke

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Aug 13, 2009
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Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
Most here know that I sold and installed mainly replacement windows for 25 years ending circa 2011. I still dabble. Look at the total square footage of those 5 windows and then consider the sq ftage of your exterior walls. The 2 x 6 walls overwhelm the energy envelope.

Energy is transferred in 3 ways, radiation, conduction and convection. Your walls are pretty much limited to conduction.

LowE Squared will do a lot for radiation and cut UV rays down to near nothing. Not too much heat gain or loss until the windows gain size.

Conduction through hollow vinyl frames is not bad at all. Aluminum needs a thermal break in the form of a plastic separating strip. Wood frames are rated the highest. Glass conducts, too, but the dual pane helps a lot. Argon is good but tends to dissipate over time. It's cheap, get it anyway.

That leaves convection. mtmgtz seems to think that windows are vulnerable in this respect. Well, a casement and awning window close up like a refrigerator door with weatherstripping all the way around in compression. That's as good as a fixed window and maybe better due to larger frame mass. Sliders, either horizontal or vertical, have a different weatherstripping challenge but all windows are tested for air and water intrusion. I don't agree with the expansion and contraction faults. If you remove the sash you will see how much 'slop' there is to allow for movement with large overlaps. If anything, the rollers on a horizontal window are the weak point and they rate well.

One more point to make: any slider can open only to 50% (it's actually less) for ventilation. A casement or awning will open up the entire inside frame dimension. Great performance for the smaller sizes but you do pay more for that style. They all have very good locks but auxiliary locks are recommended where windows can be accessed from the outside. Tempered glass is good but laminated is much better. A laminated pane can take a golf ball driven into it and you will still have a barrier. Very messy to try and chop your way through laminated. It's even a better glass for thermal performance.

So, I say buy the window you like the best and put a high performance insulated glass unit (IGU) in it according to my recommendations. At the highest retail prices you will be paying an additional average of $12 per sq ft for the upgrades over what you should get as an average performance window, or 100 bucks. In your case that might actually double the cost for a real simple window. In the case of a nice awning I'd predict a 400 dollar cost per complete window with the upgrades of laminated glass and LowE Squared and SS hardware.

Too much more than that and I'd be shopping. I priced an awning in 4 different sets of specifications and it was 240 for the most basic (NO options) to 415 with SS hardware and all the whistles and bells (as in I checked every box). Take out the SS hardware and you have about 350. Take out the laminated and you have about 260.

Note: all the above doesn't compute perfectly, it's just intended for an overview.
 
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Chuck

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Aug 30, 2005
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Smithfield, VA
I would be more concerned about how well the window seals up rather than just the U-factor...

All windows **** when it comes to thermal performance really. I'd just get something that is decent U-factor, has quality frame construction and operates nicely.

Yes, agreed. Most of your energy loss with those is likely to be air infiltration, much more so than transmission. Good install job is critical.

If it's a bit chilly for you when it's really cold, particularly if you're working at night when you're not looking for a view and natural light anyway, some simple interior insulated shutters with a layer of 1/2" of blue insulation board will nearly triple your insulation value at night anyway. Vastly cheaper than the fancy windows for a garage, and as a second layer of air seal, will actually perform better in the evenings anyway.

I'll second Zeke's point on laminated glazing if you ever anticipate either security problems or flying debris. Laminated glazing is all we design with - all windows in all the projects I do have to have a blast analysis, and laminated glass is the only method that holds up. Also great for hurricane prone areas for that reason. :thumbup:
 
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26 Flatrod

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Feb 1, 2014
Messages
38
Thanks for the input, that helps a lot.
So since you guys know your windows, what is your opinion of the ones my contractor picked?
Anderson Silverline vinyl sliders approx. $250 each
Size 2’ highx 4’ wide
U factor .48 (Not energy star rated for northern climate till rating about .30)
SHGC: .64
VT: .66
Dual pane with 2.2 mm glass with just air between

Would there be any inherent issues with these windows? Like tons of condensation and ice buildup? What about a draft coming from the windows? Would I notice a difference if I bumped the U factor to .30 or so? Is Silverline a good brand or is it bottom of the barrel stuff?
 
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26 Flatrod

Active member
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Feb 1, 2014
Messages
38
I am going to ask my contractor to look into better windows. I think it is worth the investment upfront. no sense in changing them later. I found several Jeld-wen windows at Lowes that had better ratings and they were the same price or less.

Also If there are some other good threads out there on this sublject, let me know. In the meantime I will be reading and searching the posts.
 
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