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Windows or skylights, yes? No?

Lelandwelds

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No to windows. Hell no to skylights.

My livingroom is 24 x 50 with 16ft sidewalls and a loft. It is lit by 12 ea 6" cans @13 watts each. It is bright, evenly lit, and cheap to operate. They were cheap and easy to install and last for years. They are 92 CRI @ 2700K and my current choice for lighting.

I want a similar garage. I will include some motion activated LED tape and some task lighting.

Windows would leak too much heat. Good ones are expensive. Polygal is much more reasonable but even with six layers it leaks too much heat.
 
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jef602

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Mar 27, 2016
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My 24x42 garage did not have any windows .When I was working in the back corner we lost power getting to the door was not fun. I put 2 transom windows in the back gable end , they are 1 1/2' x 5' 8' off the floor so about 9 off the ground. I love the light now .
 

peter2772000

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Jan 17, 2016
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Montreal Can. & Cape Coral FL
You have no windows in your huge living room?

This.

Unless you're jokingly referring to your biga$$ garage as your living room LOL..As an aside, I have one 48" x 50" high window in my garage up here in Montreal, along with one of two man-doors which has a window. I love it because I don't feel like I'm cooped up.

Down in Florida, I don't have any windows whatsoever. I'm always opening the door even if it's chilly, otherwise I feel depressed in there. I'm there for only 100 days a year, yet I'm seriously considering installing a window.

Even though it'll cost for the window, the opening (cement blocks) and the storm shutter I'll need to install for protection during hurricane season, I'm still doing it. Just too depressing in there otherwise.
 

1930

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Florida
I installed leak free sylights many years ago and have had zero negative issues
 

stm317

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Aug 8, 2017
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Most people feel more comfortable when there is some natural light. No windows make it feel like a bunker or a prison. Windows also help the exterior aesthetics of a building.

You're located in central Texas, not the Arctic circle. Why are you so worried about a little heat loss?
 

yeldogt

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18,184
Hate sky light -- except the old style city ones in bathrooms ..
 

jetnow1

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Jun 27, 2016
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511
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CT.
Modern skylights if installed properly do not leak. Yes there is a small percentage with problems but most are do to installer error. That said I do not put them in my garage
as I have a storage loft on the top. I did put in two man doors with small glass near the door top which brings in some day light in case of power failure, and an emergency light
for when it is dark out. Cheap insurance to install when the wiring is being done, and to
me just under a fire extinguisher in importance. I also put in a lot of led lights so it is
bright and evenly lit, something I find much more important as I am getting older (64).
 

Richie Rich

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May 2, 2009
Messages
190
I have 4 skylights in my house and one in each garage. Garage addition is getting two more skylights and It will also be getting 5 windows and a door with glass in it.

Yes, they do have their downsides, but I love having natural light.
 
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Lelandwelds

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You're located in central Texas, not the Arctic circle. Why are you so worried about a little heat loss?

It is heat gain for me and it is not a little thing. Ceiling height, insulation and thermal lag, and prevailing breezes are a big deal if you want to avoid AC.

I do have a thirty to sixty day heating season but it isnt contiguous. "Texas. If you dont like the weather, wait a minute."

Solar powered opening skylights have a 30%,federal rebate right now and would make a HUGE difference, in a good way, on your heating and cooling costs due to them being programmable to open at the coolest or hottest part of day.

I used to install the curbing for new and replacement sky lights. They all leak and moving parts always break. Not a fan.

You have no windows in your huge living room?

The wife works nights. I work days. I am used to blackout shades. I have eight great room windows with twelve foot overhangs. I bought decent windows with the green tint, argon filled, and the thermal breaks. I wish I had bought the truly expensive ones but it was $16k additional. Windows are holes in the wall which let heat move the wrong way.

I have considered Polgal slot windows against the soffits in the garage. They're cheap and almost unbreakable. Two layers of the triple style insulates pretty well. I like seeing the exposed studs in the window. I open the overhead doors while I work. I hoped that and the motion sensitive tape lights would be enough.

LED tape lights use such little power I could easily put up some simulated windows and fake daylight up to 24/7. Is the emotional daylight attachment worth faking? It would be about $85 to put up some framed opal Polygal simulated windows with the timers and power supply.
 

BillK

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Aug 24, 2006
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Beautiful Southern Maryland
I installed a skylight in our kitchen over 30 years ago and it has never leaked a drop. The way it is made it is basically impossible for it to leak unless the glass broke or the metal actually corroded away. We love the extra light. I am actually thinking about having some installed at my business.
 

Git

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May 18, 2008
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S Cal
We have a 3 stall garage - with a 2nd floor that covers the two main stalls. Above the 3rd stall I cut out a 5'x5' square in the ceiling (drywalled) and created a 'light well' with two skylights. Cleaned up the attic trusses by wrapping them in 1/4" hardboard, drywalled the 'well' and installed a small door for access to the other half of the attic (light storage). These were inexpensive 'bubble' type skylight from Lowes that have an raised aluminum curb. Never had any leaks. Good place to mount my Mr Slim also

Something like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Skyview-Fi...x-46-25-in-Actual-28-25-in-x-50-25-in/4330612

Very happy with it and was well worth the effort. (note -every electrical wire in my house ran across this area which caused me a lot of extra work). That's a piece of unistrut running across for my light duty trolly. I keep my motorcycle lift/work table directly under this area
 

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toolmiser

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La Crosse, WI
I don't know if anyone mentioned "sola tubes" The ones where you have a dome on the roof with a "shiny" tube down to the room. We have one that goes thru a second floor into our kitchen, that would other wise be dark. Nice natural light, and ours has a light fixture for the dark hours.
 

matt_i

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Mar 14, 2008
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Location
SE Michigan
I bought Andersen windows for my shop. They were extra but have a U factor of 0.25. That's R-4 (R = 1/U). And about 4x better than the R-1 concrete floor.

Its always light in there, and I really like to look outside.

The heat loss is a thing, but I don't heat it 24x7. I don't live out there...just ramp up the Heat (maybe someday AC for the 60 day cooling season) when I plan to be out there for a few hours.

The skylights would seem to be a liability if there was a bad hailstorm. Obviously it can shred the shingles too, but would probably be mostly leak free on the strength of the underlayment. Not necessarily the case for a glass skylight which could end up as a rather large hole in the roof.
 
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Lelandwelds

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I bought Andersen windows for my shop. They were extra but have a U factor of 0.25. That's R-4 (R = 1/U). And about 4x better than the R-1 concrete floor.


.

Walls are usually better than R-19

In college, my neighbor came from Michigan . He came from the Great Lake area and talked about 30 ft snowdrifts. I couldnt picture such a thing.

We have a 3 stall garage - with a 2nd floor that covers the two main stalls. Above the 3rd stall I cut out a 5'x5' square in the ceiling (drywalled) and created a 'light well' with two skylights. Cleaned up the attic trusses by wrapping them in 1/4" hardboard, drywalled the 'well' and installed a small door for access to the other half of the attic (light storage). These were inexpensive 'bubble' type skylight from Lowes that have an raised aluminum curb. Never had any leaks. Good place to mount my Mr Slim also

Something like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Skyview-Fi...x-46-25-in-Actual-28-25-in-x-50-25-in/4330612

Very happy with it and was well worth the effort. (note -every electrical wire in my house ran across this area which caused me a lot of extra work). That's a piece of unistrut running across for my light duty trolly. I keep my motorcycle lift/work table directly under this area

The ideas of Mr Slim in a lightwell and a light trolley (hoist?) made this thread worthwhile.
 

sixty4

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Dec 1, 2007
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CT
Absolute best thing my builder talked me into when I built my detached garage! They are fixed closed, probably saved a small bit of electricity to boot.
 

Angelfire

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New Mexico and Ireland
I've skylights in both my home and my detached garage. Love them as I can work in the garage during the day with no additional light needed. Never had a leak and I've been in the house for 16+ years. Of course, we don't get rain like many but when it came time to build the detached shop, I installed them without hesitation.
Cheers.
 
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Lelandwelds

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Central Texas
Love them as I can work in the garage during the day with no additional light needed.

Never had a leak and I've been in the house for 16+ years. .

I admit they are pleasant. They are also a hole in your roof that is destined to leak. Glass breaks. Plastic isnt reliably UV stable long term. They leak heat worse than even windows. Seals and gaskets fail. Moving parts fail. They are often just poorly installed. The raised curbs catch leaves and debris.

Why not build a fake lightwell and simulate sunlight with LEDs? That would give warm fuzzies and would not leak.
 
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Lelandwelds

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I hate the idea of cutting a hole in a roof, I'd go with windows high on the walls.

That's a better idea. But who needs windows? Led lighting is efficient. Motion sensors, emergency lighting, simulated windows, and industrial night lights can make windows unnecessary.
 

Phoenixl37

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Feb 13, 2011
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Illinois
I have a 32' x 64' x 14'6" pole shed, I put 3-2'x4' fixed windows (double paned) spaced evenly down each long side, as high up the wall as possible. Wish I had put 6 in, no matter what lighting you use there is something about natural light that just feels better. As I finish the interior I will also put clear plexiglass over the inside of each window.
 
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Lelandwelds

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I have a 32' x 64' x 14'6" pole shed, I put 3-2'x4' fixed windows (double paned) spaced evenly down each long side, as high up the wall as possible. Wish I had put 6 in, no matter what lighting you use there is something about natural light that just feels better. As I finish the interior I will also put clear plexiglass over the inside of each window.

Polygal is a great product. It is a full product line.

https://www.interstateplastics.com/...vid=&searchtext=Polygal&search.x=0&search.y=0
 

James-W

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Southeastern Wisconsin
I don't have a skylight but I do know a couple people who do have them. They like having a skylight, but they are afraid at some point in time it may leak and cause all sorts of issues. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but I guess it isn't real hard to understand their concern.
 
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Lelandwelds

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I don't have a skylight but I do know a couple people who do have them. They like having a skylight, but they are afraid at some point in time it may leak and cause all sorts of issues. Whether that happens or not remains to be seen, but I guess it isn't real hard to understand their concern.

Skylights are pleasant. No one would bother with the leaky things otherwise. Its been 25 years since I replaced one. Most of them were about 30 years old. (The newest was 3 years) Maybe they have invented a permanently UV stable plastic or never fail gaskets and caulk in the last 30 to 75 years. A residential install probably used crappy asphalt shingles which fail first anyway. A lot of people consider buildings as disposable fashion accessories.

Back to my topic. Delete windows? I am really pretty focused when working. I dont daydream out the window or assess my emotional state. Besides, every huge overhead door is open. I can disguise some of my lighting as windows. If I install any, they will be horizontal slot windows mounted really high. They would provide some light but you would need a ladder to look through.
 

LX-Markham

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Markham, Ont.
Windows or skylights, yes? No?
No to windows. Hell no to skylights.

I don't get this thread :headscrat

is it a question or a statement?


Personally, I like a bit of natural light, even at the expense of solar gain. As mentioned by somebody else, feels too mausoleum-like to me.
 
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Lelandwelds

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I don't get this thread :headscrat

is it a question or a statement?


Personally, I like a bit of natural light, even at the expense of solar gain. As mentioned by somebody else, feels too mausoleum-like to me.

How many threads have you read where dozens of posts ask " what do you want/ plan/ do with it" or just wander around on some tangent ? I am attempting to provide a bit of focus and provoke a response. I have a whopping whole month of experience here but I am getting informative responses rather quickly. ( I am learning **** I dont know and never considered.)

It is handy to get some feedback from a cross section of snowbound urbanites who share some of my interest. If I want to breathe my own exhaust, I already have buddies.
 

Angelfire

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I admit they are pleasant. They are also a hole in your roof that is destined to leak. Glass breaks. Plastic isnt reliably UV stable long term. They leak heat worse than even windows. Seals and gaskets fail. Moving parts fail. They are often just poorly installed. The raised curbs catch leaves and debris.

Why not build a fake lightwell and simulate sunlight with LEDs? That would give warm fuzzies and would not leak.


Sorry to say, your perceptions do not match my reality. I have fixed skylights so no moving parts. They slip over a curb so there really is no way they can leak unless they are damaged. Perhaps different plastics are used in this part of the country given our extreme UV exposure, but the ones on the house are over 20 YO at this point and not a bother on them. Never had to mess with cleaning around them as they do not catch debris at the curb. Mine are sealed to the house very well and I've not experienced any significant heat loss (or cooling as the case may be). I will say the only downside to them is they do let in heat in the summer but I've found that heat generally stays up in the recessed ceiling where they are located and haven't really noticed the heat migrating lower into the rooms where they are located.

As for LED fake lightwell, whatever floats your boat. It'll be a forever cost and I personally haven't found any LED's that mimic the sun very well (nor the movement of clouds/shade etc...which is a nice effect under the skylights).

Good Luck.
 

ford33

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Chicago, IL. USA
All skylights leak. They may not lead now but they will in the future.

The ones in our 30+ year old town home association were replaced due to excessive maintenance costs for repairs over the course of years. The association paid for this work as roofs are common elements. Some people opted for remove the skylight when the roof was replaced.

Many people attempt to build a highly insulated energy efficient garage but then they install a big hole in the roof and install a poor insulator called a skylight. Makes no sense.

Plus it is not hard to climb on a garage roof, bust open the skylight, drop down into the garage and open the doors from the inside and steal your stuff.

If you need light during a power outage, install an emergency battery operated light.
 

Angelfire

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All skylights leak. They may not lead now but they will in the future.

The ones in our 30+ year old town home association were replaced due to excessive maintenance costs for repairs over the course of years. The association paid for this work as roofs are common elements. Some people opted for remove the skylight when the roof was replaced.

Many people attempt to build a highly insulated energy efficient garage but then they install a big hole in the roof and install a poor insulator called a skylight. Makes no sense.

Plus it is not hard to climb on a garage roof, bust open the skylight, drop down into the garage and open the doors from the inside and steal your stuff.

If you need light during a power outage, install an emergency battery operated light.

Everything fails at some point. The question is what sort of longevity are you willing to live with? You got 30 years out of your skylights....considering roofs aren't lasting more than about 10-15 anymore, I'd say you did pretty well. I just talked to a peer here at work....his are 45 years old and not a leak to be seen. Now, I didn't consider it before but I suspect many who have issues have pitched roofs. We have flat roofs here so probably explains why we really don't see many leaks here.

And if someone is willing to haul a ladder to my garage, break out a skylight, and drop 15' to the concrete below, well, they probably won't be carrying too much out of there! :)

Cheers.
 

Patrobot

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CT
I was tempted to go windowless at first but came to my senses and installed 2x slender single hung windows (18"x38") as a compromise. The slender profile meant my 24" OC 2x6 framing is unmolested and installing more windows later is no problemo. Sure is nice opening the windows for a little ventilation on balmy nights.
 

cybrdyke

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USA
Seasonal Affective Disorder is a real condition. You might know it as the winter blues. For some people it gets quite bad. For others, its incapacitating.
There have been hundreds of studies done on SAD and it's causes and cures. One thing for sure is that it has partly to do with the way sunlight changes throughout the year, affecting a human's circadian rhythm (what makes your sleep cycle work). In a nutshell, Shorter days =Less sunlight =you feel blue. People that spend long hours under artificial light experience SAD at a much higher rate.


I could easily put up some simulated windows and fake daylight up to 24/7.
You cant "fake daylight" with artificial light. It's not the same thing. Ever eat a fake apple? Daylight changes in color and intensity all throughout the day and changes angles all throughout the year. It's not the same at dawn as it is at noon as it is at dusk. It's not the same in summer as it is in winter.
Your body notices this.

Is the emotional daylight attachment worth faking?
The attachment to daylight is physiological, not emotional.

Why not build a fake lightwell and simulate sunlight with LEDs? That would give warm fuzzies and would not leak.
There actually ARE light sources that can be used as treatment for those that experience SAD. Light therapy is the number one treatment. But those sources aren't what you would use to light your garage.

Led lighting is efficient. Motion sensors, emergency lighting, simulated windows, and industrial night lights can make windows unnecessary.
Unless you decide to go full-on moleman, and never pop your head out into the outerworld again, I'd say that this statement is a bit of an over-reach.

I hope some of this helps. I'm glad to hear that you can work with the overheads open to let some light in.

Good luck,
CD
 
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Lelandwelds

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Sep 6, 2017
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Central Texas
Sorry to say, your perceptions do not match my reality. I have fixed skylights so no moving parts. They slip over a curb so there really is no way they can leak unless they are damaged. Perhaps different plastics are used in this part of the country given our extreme UV exposure, but the ones on the house are over 20 YO at this point and not a bother on them. Never had to mess with cleaning around them as they do not catch debris at the curb. Mine are sealed to the house very well and I've not experienced any significant heat loss (or cooling as the case may be). I will say the only downside to them is they do let in heat in the summer but I've found that heat generally stays up in the recessed ceiling where they are located and haven't really noticed the heat migrating lower into the rooms where they are located.

As for LED fake lightwell, whatever floats your boat. It'll be a forever cost and I personally haven't found any LED's that mimic the sun very well (nor the movement of clouds/shade etc...which is a nice effect under the skylights).

Good Luck.
The commercial skylights I worked on had plastic which crumbled in your hands or sealant which looked like alligator skin. They all fail and can be fatal if anyone steps on them. Maybe someday transparent aluminum will exist like Star Trek promised.

Actually, I have set up two aquariums which simulate moonlight, clouds, and rising and setting sun with LEDs and a little board. Movies fake this stuff too. I have seen a bedroom which fakes constellations fairly well. I am sure some commercial space or some celebrity fakes all kinds of stuff. I know a fireplace store which fakes a fire so well people hold their hands up for warmth. They use a colored light which ramps brightness up and down, a pc fan, and some flimsy fabric.

Everything fails at some point. The question is what sort of longevity are you willing to live with? You got 30 years out of your skylights....considering roofs aren't lasting more than about 10-15 anymore, I'd say you did pretty well. I just talked to a peer here at work....his are 45 years old and not a leak to be seen. Now, I didn't consider it before but I suspect many who have issues have pitched roofs. We have flat roofs here so probably explains why we really don't see many leaks here.

And if someone is willing to haul a ladder to my garage, break out a skylight, and drop 15' to the concrete below, well, they probably won't be carrying too much out of there! :)

Cheers.

They break in through skylight. Escape through fire code required emergency exit. If your tool collection is like mine, a thief, once in, could break out, tear down the building, and build it again if so inclined.


Seasonal Affective Disorder is a real condition. You might know it as the winter blues. For some people it gets quite bad. For others, its incapacitating.
There have been hundreds of studies done on SAD and it's causes and cures. One thing for sure is that it has partly to do with the way sunlight changes throughout the year, affecting a human's circadian rhythm (what makes your sleep cycle work). In a nutshell, Shorter days =Less sunlight =you feel blue. People that spend long hours under artificial light experience SAD at a much higher rate.



You cant "fake daylight" with artificial light. It's not the same thing. Ever eat a fake apple? Daylight changes in color and intensity all throughout the day and changes angles all throughout the year. It's not the same at dawn as it is at noon as it is at dusk. It's not the same in summer as it is in winter.
Your body notices this.


The attachment to daylight is physiological, not emotional.


There actually ARE light sources that can be used as treatment for those that experience SAD. Light therapy is the number one treatment. But those sources aren't what you would use to light your garage.


Unless you decide to go full-on moleman, and never pop your head out into the outerworld again, I'd say that this statement is a bit of an over-reach.

I hope some of this helps. I'm glad to hear that you can work with the overheads open to let some light in.

Good luck,
CD

If I move to someplace which has winters longer than two weeks, I will worry about SAD. Aquariums fake daylight length, intensity, clouds, moonlight, lightning storms. I am very sure somebody with an Arduino has put together a very convincing "The Time Machine" rapid daylength simulating coffee table.

The skylights I used to replace were on hotels and office buildings of every height and roof shape and composition you can imagine. Property owners used to hover and whine about history of repairs and expenses. Most of them were 30 yo. Some were 3 yo.

No windows - security weak spot and use valuable wall space.
2 Velux rooflights in my workshop - fantastic for light and ventilation.

All skylights leak. They may not leak now but they will in the future.

The ones in our 30+ year old town home association were replaced due to excessive maintenance costs for repairs over the course of years. The association paid for this work as roofs are common elements. Some people opted for remove the skylight when the roof was replaced.

Many people attempt to build a highly insulated energy efficient garage but then they install a big hole in the roof and install a poor insulator called a skylight. Makes no sense.

Plus it is not hard to climb on a garage roof, bust open the skylight, drop down into the garage and open the doors from the inside and steal your stuff.

If you need light during a power outage, install an emergency battery operated light.

Finally! ! A man after my own heart! I forgot about thieves. I had a client who was sucessfully sued by a thief who broke his leg in a 30 foot fall.
 

reader2580

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Dec 31, 2014
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Minneapolis, MN
I am not sure why the OP started this thread because he already made up his mind that he won’t have any windows or skylights in his garage/shop.

If a thief is going to climb up on a roof and bust a skylight why wouldn’t they just bust down the man door instead? If a thief is ********* enough to bring a ladder couldn’t they just as easily cut through the wall with cordless tools?

I wish I had not removed my garage windows in hind sight. It gets way too hot in there now. My neighbor has offered me a free window air, but it probably wouldn’t do much of anything against the heat.
 
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Lelandwelds

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I am not sure why the OP started this thread because he already made up his mind that he won’t have any windows or skylights in his garage/shop.

If a thief is going to climb up on a roof and bust a skylight why wouldn’t they just bust down the man door instead? If a thief is ********* enough to bring a ladder couldn’t they just as easily cut through the wall with cordless tools?

I wish I had not removed my garage windows in hind sight. It gets way too hot in there now. My neighbor has offered me a free window air, but it probably wouldn’t do much of anything against the heat.

Cybrdyke taught me a lesson my first week on GJ. Say something offbeat or non obvious and you may provoke somebody into imparting a bit of wisdom. I have learned stuff that should have been obvious but I had no clue.

Thieves do try to kick in the door first thing. I KNOW how to harden a door and have learned a lot about locks on another forum. Thieves actively avoid homeowners, dogs, and breaking glass. Strangely, they almost never think to unscrew some tin with visegrips. They bring almost nothing with them. They use what they find on site. They use your ladder and your tools to steal your stuff.

I will have no skylights. I am not sure about windows. Most of the storerooms and warehouses I've worked in had no windows. The shops either had no windows or had two small windows in one panel of each overhead door. No windows is typical in my experience. I dont really care much either way. I am really interested in what I don't know and what other people think.

Why did you remove your windows? Thats much harder than never installing some. What happened?

I automatically open every overhead door as soon as I start work. A 12 x 12 or 16 x 10 door lets way more light in than a window. Plus, it's only open while I am there.
 

terabitdan

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Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
152
We installed Solatube‘ sin our kitchen and love them. They bring in a lot of light. Since they are only 14” it would be hard for anyone to break in through them.


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