Winter Garage Heater

[Kenskip1]

So here in central Missouri it is supposed to get in the mid 80's today.Anyway,during the past winter I have a Mr.Heater propane heater for my garage. It works well but seems as if everything is damp.I have a 25 pound tank for it. I am aware that propane heaters give off moisture.Plus it take a while to heat my two car garage.
So I am looking for something that is faster and without the moisture content.My local Lowe's has a heater resembling a salamander. The reviews are favorable as are the comments on youtube.Can anyone give me comments on this or one resembling it? Thanks, Ken.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dyna-Glo-Delux-50-000-BTU-Forced-Air-Kerosene-Heater/3773503

 

[kythri]

Is it the propane heater causing the moisture, or is it just condensation forming due to the temperature variations?

I don't have propane heat in my shop, but every so often, I notice condensation on some of my stuff, usually in the winter when there's an abnormally warmer-ish day.

 

[cjarvis]

One of the byproducts of the combustion of the propane is water vapor. The problem occurs when the warm moist air being put off by the heater hits the cold surfaces in the garage. The moisture in the air condenses on the cold surfaces.

The only way I can think of to prevent that from happening would be to use electric heat.

Personally, I use kerosene and propane heaters in my shop, but with a 16x9' garage door on it, it's not especially tight.

 

[Kenskip1]

Is it the propane heater causing the moisture, or is it just condensation forming due to the temperature variations?

I don't have propane heat in my shop, but every so often, I notice condensation on some of my stuff, usually in the winter when there's an abnormally warmer-ish day.

I do not have an answer for this.All my tools seem to sweat.I am somewhat concerned about my cordless tools.

 

[mv213]

Propane heaters DO increase the moisture in the air. The two main products of propane combustion are Carbon Dioxide and water vapor. So they will increase condensation on any cold surfaces. Electric heat/heat pump is the way to go to avoid this but will cost a bit more. In my shop at the old place I had a “Hot One” heater from Home Depot that ran on 220 and worked pretty well since the shop was insulated. At the new place I’m limited to propane at the moment and sweaty windows with it.

 

[Kenskip1]

Propane heaters DO increase the moisture in the air. The two main products of propane combustion are Carbon Dioxide and water vapor. So they will increase condensation on any cold surfaces. Electric heat/heat pump is the way to go to avoid this but will cost a bit more. In my shop at the old place I had a “Hot One” heater from Home Depot that ran on 220 and worked pretty well since the shop was insulated. At the new place I’m limited to propane at the moment and sweaty windows with it.

The only problem with the electric heat is that my electric bill is now almost equal to my mortgage payment.
Diesel or fuel oil is the cheapest option available at this time.Wood heat is great but with a two car garage it would take a bit of time to warm the place up.Plus I am not known for my patience.As mentioned my Mr.Heater propane works fine except for the sweating and the odor.My garage is all brick so insulation is not really an option at this time.Thanks, Ken

 

[pbon]

Use a hanging shop heater that is vented, insulate and heat full time. If you want to freeze your tools and heat them up with moist heat from a non vented propane heater they will sweat. Or consider a 240V hanging fan assisted electric heater if you don’t want to vent. You need more capacity if you want to quickly heat your shop with frozen walls and floors and tools compared to maintaining it at 50 or 60 and then temporarily bumping it up 10-20 degrees.

 

[Bretny]

Anything un vented is just burning up all the oxygen in your garage. Those k1/diesel heaters are very smelly and can soot badly when ran on diesel. If you priced out actual K1 then you would be going electric or something vented.

Get a real heater.

 

[bobcatdan]

I had an old house furnace in my shop for years hooked to a 100 pounder. I keep the shop 60° all the time during the heating season. Other than melting snow covered vehicles off, can't say I have a moisture problem. I did switch to one of the Mr. Heater ceiling mounted units last year late in the season just to run it a bit before going into this year unknown. Generally speaking I can keep my shop heated all the time for $50 a month. To me that is cheap to come into a place warm and all the metal is warm.

 

[HeartlandDan]

How about using a natural gas furnace in the garage.

 

[kythri]

Wouldn't natural gas combustion have the same issues as propane combustion?

 

[lardy1]

I heat my 30X40X10 pole building in central Michigan with a Modine Hot Dawg garage heater. It can vent horizontally so no need to penetrate your roof for a chimney.

I think I paid around $800.00 for mine about five years ago. I keep it above freezing all the time and above 60 most days when I'm out there. Propane costs me less than a hundred a month. Everything it warm & dry. I'm very happy with it although it is noisy when the fan is running.

 

[kctyphoon]

If natural gas or electric isnt an option - i think its time for pot belly

 

[Zewnten]

I'm with Kctyphoon, in my shop I have a propane heater with a thermostate to keep in about 60 but when working in the shop I fire up the wood stove. Wood stove seems to dry the air out so having a bit extra from the propane is nice haha

 

[Kenskip1]

Well, The choice has been made.I now have a small wood stove in my garage. I still will use mt Mr. Heater propane however the wood stove will more than fill the bill.Thanks for the information, Ken

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Drolet-1000-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove/1000107149

 

[yrly]

Well, The choice has been made.I now have a small wood stove in my garage. I still will use mt Mr. Heater propane however the wood stove will more than fill the bill.Thanks for the information, Ken

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Drolet-1000-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove/1000107149

You did just what I was going to suggest, its far cheaper to use wood as a fuel unless you have an oil burner and a source of used oil, even if you have to have wood delivered. Slab wood works good for small stoves like this and can usually be purchased cheap if you don’t want to split and cut wood for it.

 

[Parrothead]

I think the biggest question you need to ask yourself is what are you doing to retain heat?

I’ve got solid wood garage doors, and my garage is fully insulated, including the ceiling, and an electric space heater keeps it to jeans and a sweatshirt situation in all but the worst of the cold (below zero)

Insulate the garage, garage doors, and ceiling (heat rises) and you’ll be amazed how little heat you’ll need compared to before.

 

[58Yeoman]

I don't work in my shop every day, so in the winter, it's unheated, except when I plan to work out there. I installed a propane ceiling heater and really like it. If I'm going to work out there, I just turn it on, and let it go with the thermostat. No piling up kindling and paper, waiting for the fire to get going well enough to put on the heavier wood, then waiting for it to heat the shop. Plus, no shoveling ashes.

I do have a small wood stove in my basement family room that I burn to heat that room up, but then again, I relight it every evening. Doesn't take much to heat that room.

 

[woody6904]

Val6

 

[Kenskip1]

View image in post 15. Thanks,Ken

 

[finn]

Wouldn't natural gas combustion have the same issues as propane combustion?

It’s not a fuel issue, it’s a venting issue. Vent the products of combustion outdoors and there is no humidity issue.

Vent indoors, and you are putting humidity into the room.

A wood burner provides nice, dry radiant heat.

 

[JPinSTL]

Well, The choice has been made.I now have a small wood stove in my garage. I still will use mt Mr. Heater propane however the wood stove will more than fill the bill.Thanks for the information, Ken

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Drolet-1000-sq-ft-Wood-Burning-Stove/1000107149

As a fellow mid-MO guy. BEWARE of Insurance coverage issues now that you have a wood stove installed in your garage. Your "garage" is now a WORKSHOP when discussing it with you insurance agent. Garage implies vehicle storage and therefore potential gasoline fumes. They frown on that with an open flame. I've been down this road.

 

[Cougar]

As a fellow mid-MO guy. BEWARE of Insurance coverage issues now that you have a wood stove installed in your garage. Your "garage" is now a WORKSHOP when discussing it with you insurance agent. Garage implies vehicle storage and therefore potential gasoline fumes. They frown on that with an open flame. I've been down this road.

X2 on the insurance.
I was set to put a wood stove in my shop, insurance said no go.

 

[ThomasZ]

You did just what I was going to suggest, its far cheaper to use wood as a fuel unless you have an oil burner and a source of used oil, even if you have to have wood delivered. Slab wood works good for small stoves like this and can usually be purchased cheap if you don’t want to split and cut wood for it.

Well, he's gonna have additional storage for that wood and do not forget that it takes time to fire up the wood in the stove. I used to heat up the place like that but then decided to buy mr. heater, too, and that's for sure (as for me) the better option

 

[ThomasZ]

As a fellow mid-MO guy. BEWARE of Insurance coverage issues now that you have a wood stove installed in your garage. Your "garage" is now a WORKSHOP when discussing it with you insurance agent. Garage implies vehicle storage and therefore potential gasoline fumes. They frown on that with an open flame. I've been down this road.

The best comment in this thread I guess forgot to mention that. I've been there too

 

[Bigbandguy]

Half of the attached garages in the country have a gas hot water heater in them, including mine. The shell of the water heater is no barrier to a gasoline vapor so how does your insurance company square that ?How does said water heater differ in risk from another type of gas powered heater? I wish someone would 'splain that to me.

 

[finn]

Half of the attached garages in the country have a gas hot water heater in them, including mine. The shell of the water heater is no barrier to a gasoline vapor so how does your insurance company square that ?How does said water heater differ in risk from another type of gas powered heater? I wish someone would 'splain that to me.

Gas devices don’t have chimney fires, or hot embers. They have metered fuel via th gas valve, so they are less prone to overheating. Wood fired heaters depend on the operator to keep them safe.

 

[trashmanssd]

As a fellow mid-MO guy. BEWARE of Insurance coverage issues now that you have a wood stove installed in your garage. Your "garage" is now a WORKSHOP when discussing it with you insurance agent. Garage implies vehicle storage and therefore potential gasoline fumes. They frown on that with an open flame. I've been down this road.

Also for your own safety, be very careful with any type of flammable liquids and their vapor by products. Also saw dust and a bunch other things I can't even think of. Just always remember you have an open flame in there with you when you are doing stuff and ask your self is there any possibility what i am doing is flammable and if so I need more ventilation or less flame exposure.

 

[JPinSTL]

Half of the attached garages in the country have a gas hot water heater in them, including mine. The shell of the water heater is no barrier to a gasoline vapor so how does your insurance company square that ?How does said water heater differ in risk from another type of gas powered heater? I wish someone would 'splain that to me.

NatGas/Propane water heater in garages also have a minimum installed height requirement above the floor. You also see this in many attached garages the floor level is lower than the living space floor level. The idea is that the gas fumes from a parked car "sink" to the lowest level. That was the raised up higher pilot light does not ignite them.

With a wood stove the air intake has the same potential ignition source for lingering fumes issue as the pilot light.

I upgraded to a wood furnace in the shop when the insurance company through a fit over my factory made plate steel stove (think Fischer Papa Bear) did not have a UL Sticker. So I now have a HotBlast furnace sitting on 2 courses of concrete blocks. Makes it easier to stoke the fire too!!

The pole barn had an old Ashley Stove in it when I bought it with an old Class A Flue going through the roof. All noted and Insurance Co was aware when we bought the place. Couple years went by and the flue had seen better days and the ceiling box was leaking when it rained. So I pulled it out, put some new roof tin on, and bought a new Selkirk through the wall Thimble kit. Got rid of the old Ashley that was burnt through in a couple spots and put the plate steel stove in. I thought I'd done a huge benefit to improving the safety of things. We had some hail damage and a roof claim on the house and I guess the Insurance Co had some drive by inspector that noticed the new shiny flue on the shop and flagged us.

 

[aventino68]

So, can I build a garage with adequate ventilation using LPG/Propane and not have condensation issues? It's either that or electric.

 

[pbon]

As stated, vent the heater to the outside. Don’t run a torpedo or other portable LP heater inside except for temporary use in a space that has fresh air flow.

 

[astroracer]

Adequate ventilation is required by code for permanently installed heaters of any fuel type. Venting the EXHAUST gasses out of the building will do the trick. A permanently installed heater does not use the exhaust gas to heat the building. The heat is created by blowing air over/thru the heat exchanger.
Portable heaters, like a salamander use the exhaust gas to heat and that is where the extra moisture comes from.
ALSO... If you are spot heating a garage, that is, not keeping it at a constant temp and letting it cool down to ambient, you will have condensation problems EVERY time you turn on the heat, no matter what you are using to heat the building. It's common laws of physics.
The only way to reduce the condensation is to keep the shop at a constant temperature.

 

[aventino68]

I do not have an answer for this.All my tools seem to sweat.I am somewhat concerned about my cordless tools.

So if you ran the heater relatively consistently and kept the garage well above freezing and avoided temperature variations would that decrease the condensation?

 

[Sokoloff]

It would decrease but not eliminate it. Something is going to be at or below the local dewpoint, and that something is where the condensation will happen. Might be halfway through the wall, might be a cold corner of your shop, but if it’s not the outside shell of the building, you’re going to get water to condense.

Combustion appliances need to be vented outside (for air quality and condensation reasons). If you don’t want to vent it outside, switch to electric, IMO.

 

[Sokoloff]

(And the relevant dewpoint is not what the weather forecaster says on TV, but a much higher figure, considering that the air with water vapor from combustion is much more humid than the outside air.)

 

[aventino68]

It would decrease but not eliminate it. Something is going to be at or below the local dewpoint, and that something is where the condensation will happen. Might be halfway through the wall, might be a cold corner of your shop, but if it’s not the outside shell of the building, you’re going to get water to condense.

Combustion appliances need to be vented outside (for air quality and condensation reasons). If you don’t want to vent it outside, switch to electric, IMO.

Ok so the architect should know to do the venting when I talk my garage plans with them? They're doing the house as well, last time I just had a draftsman and no venting but I wasn't in the snowbelt.

 

[cpttuna]

I have a 60,000 btu moble home furnace in my garage for heat

 

[Sokoloff]

Ok so the architect should know to do the venting when I talk my garage plans with them? They're doing the house as well, last time I just had a draftsman and no venting but I wasn't in the snowbelt.

Yes. They'll know how to do the venting. Whether them or the plumbing/heating contractor will work out the gnat's kneecap level of detail is open, but architects up in your area are well familiar with the need to vent combustion equipment and work it into their plans for housing.

Because heating garages may be uncommon, you need to discuss your needs with them, but they'll 100% be able to handle the details.