Winter Tires

[gbick]

Greetings from the soon-to-be land of ice and snow. I have always had four dedicated winter tires for all my vehicles. I've found that narrower tires cut through snow better and are less likely to ride up on slush. When buying winter tires, I get the brand currently recommended by Consumer Reports, and go down one step in width and up one step in height (aspect ratio) to keep the overall diameter close to stock. By sticking to this formula, my cars have always done well on messy roads.
Well, I just got a 2012 Chevy Cruze to replace my rusted out 2003 Chevy Cavalier. Though a base model, I am amazed at the electrical gadgetry- among other things, traction control, anti-lock brakes, tire pressure display, automatic stability control, etc.. I know, this is nothing new to many of you.
So, I'm wondering if my tried and true plan will work here. I got the dealer to throw in four extra wheels to close the deal, but before committing several hundred dollars to a set of expensive tires, I want to be sure.
Stock size is 215 60 16. So my snow fighters would be 205 65 16. Hope it's a common size! According to an online tire comparator, the difference is less than 10 revs per mile. When the speedometer said 65, actual speed would be 65.83
The owners manual discourages size changes and says vehicle safety and performance would be affected. I'm sure the dealer would parrot what the manual says. I really want the best winter performance I can get, as with the narrower tires or should I cave and go by the manual with stock size?
Thanks. Greg.

 

[p_mori7]

No problem at all with what you want to do... I do the exact same thing.

 

[crabjoe]

Not a problem with what you're doing. But here's something you might not have thought of.

TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitor). If you just slap on snow tires on the extra rims, to use, you're going to be driving around all winter with your TPMS light on. To avoid this, you'll have to get TPMS valves, for your extra set of rims, then reprogram your your car to read the new valves. Reprogramming will have to happen every time you swap out the tires... The other option is to use the same rims and remount the tires on the existing rims. It's up to you, but reprogramming can be expensive or it could be as cheap as using a speaker magnet. It just depends on what type of TPMS is on your vehicle.

Good Luck!!

 

[awdblazer]

look into nokian tyres
consumer reports i dont think even rates them
but if you look in finland or sweeden where they are made that is what everyone runs
i have a set of the hakka 3 with studs on my rav4 and it is wicked

 

[the_saint]

look into nokian tyres
consumer reports i dont think even rates them
but if you look in finland or sweeden where they are made that is what everyone runs
i have a set of the hakka 3 with studs on my rav4 and it is wicked

Ditto on Nokians!

I ran a set of studded Hakka 5s on my Subaru for a few years. The best winter tire I have used. Made my Michelin X-ice IIs look foolish.

I only got rid of them b/c the studs were not allowed in my parking garage (at the condo)

As mentioned they are not included in tests here b/c the North American market does not want you to use studded tires, and when they test studded tires they use a crappy tire as the example

Europe gets all the good tires

 

[fflintstone]

FWIW I have a performance model Toyota Matrix. I do what you do on a much grander scale. It came with 215-45x 17 factory tires. For winter I have 195-65 x 15 Michelin X ice on steel wheels. My TPMS counts wheel revs so there is no sensor in the valve stem. The computer does fine with the 15” winter rims but has some difficulty with the 18” summer tires. Narrow does work better in snow as does a taller more flexible sidewall.

 

[jweller]

My Mazda has the TPMS sensors in the valve stem. I bought a complete set of them used for $75 and a rebuild kit for them was in the $15 range. basically $100 shipped. Programming was as complicated as installing them and driving to the end of the street. Do a little bit of research on the web because there are a lot of different systems out there. Not sure what GM is using.

Traction control measures differences in wheel speed, so assuming all 4 tires come from the factory the same, as long as you keep all 4 the same size, you are good to go. different sizes, like front/rear stagger, will cause the car to try and kill you. seriously.

 

[gpalmer77]

Nokian or Blizzak WS70 and you'll be golden. No problem with the sizes, if your car was that sensitive to different sizes it wouldn't be able to handle the fact that tires change circumference as they wear. The diameter of a snow tire can change a half inch from new to bald, if you wanted to run them down that far. ABS and traction control are smart enough to figure that out, it compares wheel speed to normal, aswell as each other.

 

[scouting]

Or just drive with the TPMS light on, doesn't hurt anything. Railroad trucks run special tires designed to operate on the rails, and the upfitters never swap the sensors. I've never seen a RR truck where that light wasn't on, and they don't have any problems. You won't hurt the traction control, and I really like having a separate set of rims for winter. Let that slush and salt destroy your 'spare' set, then in the spring your wheels will still look nice. Always a plus.

 

[Twiggss]

Or just drive with the TPMS light on, doesn't hurt anything. Railroad trucks run special tires designed to operate on the rails, and the upfitters never swap the sensors. I've never seen a RR truck where that light wasn't on, and they don't have any problems. You won't hurt the traction control, and I really like having a separate set of rims for winter. Let that slush and salt destroy your 'spare' set, then in the spring your wheels will still look nice. Always a plus.

nice looking wheels on a rusted out car... yeeeeeeeeeeeeah!!

 

[danielpreciad]

look into nokian tyres

 

[Hesketh]

From my experiences I had the TPMS light going into meltdown and the car continuing to cut power when I switch from 60 to 65 profile winter tyres. BUT that was when I was trying to be cute and only switched the driven wheels. But now I switch from 225-60-16 to 225-65-16 in the winter.
I use Michelin Alpin A4 Tyres in the winter and even on the the Jag XJ's they fantastic.

 

[Jeff95TA]

If the 205 size is hard to find, I wouldn't hesitate to use the stock size snow tire.

 

[Ben Glaser]

Here's another calculator - better one

http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp

Plus One tire size calculator here. http://autorepair.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=autorepair&cdn=autos&tm=21&f=00&su=p1122.1.150.ip_p284.13.342.ip_p504.6.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

 

[1948]

you guys have valve stem sensors? dude i must be living in the stone age..... i feel like if i said the word bias ply people would think i lived in the time of christ..... lol

 

[awdblazer]

definitely getting some nokians for my wifes van this year

 

[rlitman]

I've had Nokian Hakka Q and Hakka RSI.
Both were excellent for two winters, and ok on the third.

Don't go narrow with snow tires, if you're expecting to deal with ice. Ice requires as many gripping surfaces as possible. Wider is better with ice.
With snow, narrow may get you to the bottom, but so do deep treads. Snow tires should be replaced when the tread is still deeper than what you would expect in a new summer tire.

 

[JerseyBoatBuilder]

I like and use the Michelin Pilot Sport AS plus's for winter on my car.
Since they are all season and good in snow and ice and perform excellent on wet and dry roads, actually better than some or most summer dedicated tires that I have had.
They go on my g.f's Cobalt SS & G5 GT for all year round driving too.

 

[gpalmer77]

Careful with the tire calculators, one manufacturers 215/60R16 will be different to the same size tire by another manufacturer. I know Tire Rack lists the detailed specs on most tires, you can get revs/mile etc from their website.

All season tires versus snow tires is a night and day comparison. The only people who know how good a true snow tire is are the people who have used them. It isn't just tread, the modern day compounds make a huge difference. Snow tires have come a long way.

I ran a 225/60R15 on my 5 series for about 8 seasons, (two sets), but now Blizzak does not make that width anymore...... I switched to a 205 width. Fresh set ready for this Winter.

Somehow I seem to wear the rears out first. I tell my wife I have no idea how that happens. ;-)

 

[theoldwizard1]

Greetings from the soon-to-be land of ice and snow.

Canada, eh ?

I have always had four dedicated winter tires for all my vehicles.

Quebec has a mandatory winter tire law.

I've found that narrower tires cut through snow better and are less likely to ride up on slush.

Yep. Well, know in the Great White North.

Stock size is 215 60 16. So my snow fighters would be 205 65 16. Hope it's a common size!

Not available in Michelin X-Ice2

207/70R15 is available. 26.3" diameter 792 revolutions/mile

I really want the best winter performance I can get, as with the narrower tires or should I cave and go by the manual with stock size?
Thanks. Greg.

Go narrower. Shoot for close on diameter and revs/mile

 

[Gary S]

I'd reconsider even changing tires. I drive in about as much snow and ice as anybody, and I'm happy using basic all-season tires all year around. A little planning ahead keeps me out of trouble all winter so I don't need to be changing tires.
My cars are all rear wheel drive and all-season tires do the job just fine.

 

[DekeT]

I would not change anything you have previously done. Those electronics are not worth a damn compared to good tread, good brakes, and good driving skills.

 

[e30bradley]

I like summer tires in the some winter tires in the winter.. All season aren't so good in summer nor winter.

 

[holland_patrick]

My Mazda has the TPMS sensors in the valve stem. I bought a complete set of them used for $75 and a rebuild kit for them was in the $15 range. basically $100 shipped. Programming was as complicated as installing them and driving to the end of the street. Do a little bit of research on the web because there are a lot of different systems out there. Not sure what GM is using.

Traction control measures differences in wheel speed, so assuming all 4 tires come from the factory the same, as long as you keep all 4 the same size, you are good to go. different sizes, like front/rear stagger, will cause the car to try and kill you. seriously.

here is the tool you need

https://gmspecialservicetools.spx.com/ToolDetails.aspx?id=5677

here is why..

https://gmspecialservicetools.spx.co...0448_rev_1.pdf

Changes to the Service Procedure
GM Product Engineering has determined that in some instances the manual re-learn
procedure can cause the TPM system to pick up stray sensor signals from nearby vehicles
which can result in Diagnostic Trouble Codes being stored and parts being unnecessarily
replaced. To address this concern GM Product Engineering will be disabling the TPM
manual re-learn capability from the vehicle software starting January 2011.

 

[gpalmer77]

I'd reconsider even changing tires. I drive in about as much snow and ice as anybody, and I'm happy using basic all-season tires all year around. A little planning ahead keeps me out of trouble all winter so I don't need to be changing tires.
My cars are all rear wheel drive and all-season tires do the job just fine.

Have you tried snow tires?

I guarantee they'll blow "just fine" out of the water.

All season tires are like wearing gym shoes to run the 100m, they'll do just fine, but spikes will do better.

 

[gpalmer77]

I like summer tires in the some winter tires in the winter.. All season aren't so good in summer nor winter.

You got it. Horses for courses. All seasons are a compromise. I have all-seasons on my DD, but on a snowy day, I jump in the beater with the snows.

 

[Murphy4570]

Snow tires?

I don't run any fancy snow tires. I just use Dakota Definity A/T 33" tires year round. Works great in mud, rocks, snow, whatever. Then again I have a 4x4 truck. Well, two of them, actually!

Mud terrain tires work great in snow too, but are loud as hell on paved road.

 

[Gary S]

Have you tried snow tires?

I guarantee they'll blow "just fine" out of the water.

All season tires are like wearing gym shoes to run the 100m, they'll do just fine, but spikes will do better.

Yes, I used snow tires for years. Some were studded, and some weren't. The studded tires make a worthwhile difference, but you can't use them in summer. The non-studded snow tires aren't enough better to make them worth the cost or hassle.
When I buy tires for my vehicles, I just make sure they say M+S on the sidewall, and they are great 365 days a year.

The last time I ran snow tires, most of you were still in diapers.

 

[99LeCouch]

I have a 2012 Cruze Eco. It has a set of 4 Nokian Hakka R snows in the OEM 215/60-16 size on dedicated winter wheels. There are a fair number of choices in that size since it's been a popular OEM size on a lot of late-model cars. It handled fine last winter on that size. The choices in 205/65-16 were fewer, and more expensive. Quickly checking TireRack, the OEM size has 10 different tires, while the 205/65-16 has 3, and one's on closeout.

Folks on the Cruze boards run without TMPS without issue. No power loss or anything. The only thing is it lights up the TPMS light all winter, and one can't check the tire pressure from the dashboard.

There are 15" steel wheels available for the Cruze now. I'd totally rock a set of those with 205/70-15 snow tires. I wish those wheels had been available a year ago when I purchased my winter set, since it would have been far cheaper than the setup I have (and thoroughly enjoy) now.

I'd go 205/70-15 myself, even though I have a rocking setup in 215/60-16.

 

[the_saint]

Yes, I used snow tires for years. Some were studded, and some weren't. The studded tires make a worthwhile difference, but you can't use them in summer. The non-studded snow tires aren't enough better to make them worth the cost or hassle.
When I buy tires for my vehicles, I just make sure they say M+S on the sidewall, and they are great 365 days a year.

The last time I ran snow tires, most of you were still in diapers.

Tire technology has changed a lot!!!!

Even with AWD winter tires blow all seasons away. Braking is a non issue and handling is so much better with winter tires.

In both of our AWD vehicles I put winter tires on. The SO insists on having the winter tires on as winter comes close.

thesaint

 

[mrpowderkeg]

I have Nokians for the woman's stratus. They make a huge difference!

 

[KyleQ]

Snow tires for the winter - once you use them you will never want to go back.

General Altimax Arctic

Not only do they obviously work great in the snow and ice, but on frozen *** pavement they hook up much better than a stiff all season...

 

[gpalmer77]

Yes, I used snow tires for years. Some were studded, and some weren't. The studded tires make a worthwhile difference, but you can't use them in summer. The non-studded snow tires aren't enough better to make them worth the cost or hassle.
When I buy tires for my vehicles, I just make sure they say M+S on the sidewall, and they are great 365 days a year.

The last time I ran snow tires, most of you were still in diapers.

M+S is a rating based on tread void, says very/little nothing for how it will do in the snow. The mountain and snowflake symbol is the snow designation.

The snow tires they made when I was in my diapers (30 years ago) did not have the advanced multi-cell rubber compounds that are available today.

 

[purplezr2]

I agree with Gary S, I spend alot of time driving some pretty **** roads in the winter, never had a problem, didn't think snow tires were all that great, pain to change out, store and all that jazz. I run just good all season on my A4 and Dodge. The Dodge is pretty much unstoppable in 4 on ice and snow.

 

[Stuart in MN]

It would help if the original poster could come back and let us know where they live. Do they have deep snow, ice, arctic temperatures? Do they live out in the country where roads aren't plowed or are they in a city? All those things factor in to what kind of tires are best.

I live in Minnesota where we normally get plenty of snow and cold, but the fact is that outside of a few days a year I could probably get around on racing slicks without too much trouble if I had to.

 

[gpalmer77]

I agree with Gary S, I spend alot of time driving some pretty **** roads in the winter, never had a problem, didn't think snow tires were all that great, pain to change out, store and all that jazz. I run just good all season on my A4 and Dodge. The Dodge is pretty much unstoppable in 4 on ice and snow.

"Unstoppable on ice and snow" just proves my point. ;-)

I jest, but it does lead to a common misconception, sure 4WD or AWD is great for going, but when it comes to stopping, the car with the most grip wins out. On snow, that is the car with snow tires, not the car with the most driven wheels. Typically, when things go wrong, you'll want to be stopping, not going.

 

[awdblazer]

with my studded tires i will stop on a dime
i dont even remember the last time my abs kicked on in the winter
you honestly have to try the new winter tires
well you have to try nokians before you get an opinion

 

[gpalmer77]

with my studded tires i will stop on a dime
i dont even remember the last time my abs kicked on in the winter
you honestly have to try the new winter tires
well you have to try nokians before you get an opinion

I once got a ride on a frozen lake in a prepped ice racing car with studded tires, awesome.

Another bonus is that a sensibly purchased set of wheels and snow tires can be had for about the price of most people's deductible.

Unless it is a Corvette. Then it is cheaper to park it for the winter and buy a used Civic.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Up here in the land of snow and ice, it's the law to have your winter tires on in the second week of December until mid April, period. Big fines, and insurance may not pay if you had 4 seasons or summer tires on when you crashed.
It's been law for two years now and all the body shop guys I know are going out of business....
Winter tires are bad for the body guys but good for stopping....
I was late taking off the winter studded tires of my girlfriends pickup last year. Sure enough, there was a cop car at the end of the off ramp with his window open this spring.Listening... She got nailed for $145 bucks for driving with studded tires after the deadline...

 

[BigAl62]

215/60R16 + 26.1" tall, 205/65R16 + 26.5" tall. I would just get snow tires in your stock size, they're not wide enough to cause problems.