Wire pull thru 2 inch conduit critique please.

[plout99]

I will be pulling 3- 1/0 aluminum xhhw and 1 no.2 aluminum xhhw 220 feet. Conduit is installed I have 2- 90 degree long sweep 36 inch elbows and a site bent 60 degree elbow to pull thru from the lb to the new sub panel. The rest of the run is pretty straight I do have a curve but was able to sweep thru it with the 10 ft sticks of conduit without using fittings. The pull is down hill somewhat if that makes a difference.

I will be pulling from the male end of the conduit into the female bell end I also beveled the inside edge of the male end. I have 5 quarts of wire lube two helpers to pull, me to feed and lube and a helper to assist feeding and lubing. I plan to run rags thru to clean the conduit then run a rag with lube before starting the pull.

My concerns are how to make a good solid wire pulling head and should I use pull rope or mule tape? I am concerned about cutting thru the last 90 using rope but it might not be a problem. If I use pull rope 1/4 inch or larger? The last thing I want is to be 200 feet in and something pulls loose or breaks and I have to pull 200 feet of lubed wire out.

Am I missing anything that is going to cause heartburn doing this?

 

[Terry D]

Everyone is going to have there own opinion or technique for pulling wire. Every pull is unique. Post some pictures. I have done many pulls in my career. I have used tuggers, vehicles, even forklifts. Are you planning on hand pulling this. Its doable. you will need at least 3 guys. One to pull, one to push and apply lube, and the last one to keep the wire straight and feeding to the guy pushing. The key is timing, the puller and pusher must be in time with each, when one is pulling the other is pushing, or you will be working against each other. Communication is the key. If you have to stop, you have to stop together.

Lube is the key, I have done what you said by pulling rags through there to lube the inside of the pipe, i have even lubed the rope. These were much bigger pulls. I personally dont think you need to do that on this pull, but it doesnt hurt. make sure you tie the rags on good, last thing you want is to loose it in the pipe.

The way I make up a head, I start by putting a loop in the rope. I like a cinch knot, always had good luck. You want to keep the head as small as possible. Strip the jacket about 16" off each conductor, on the 1/0's, cut about half the strands off to make it smaller in diameter. Bring it though the loop and give a few twists around its self to make its own loop. Do this with each conductor, but stagger them, so all the ends are not together. Once you get this done, Hold the wires firmly together and wrap it with tape, the bare wire, the loops, onto the rope and about a foot back on the insulation of the conductors. Wrap it as tight as possible, and use a good quality tape, no cheap stuff. 3M 33 plus is great.

Without pictures, I could not tell you what end to pull and push from. You want to make it as easy as possible

 

[Terry D]

Everyone is going to have there own opinion or technique for pulling wire. Every pull is unique. Post some pictures. I have done many pulls in my career. I have used tuggers, vehicles, even forklifts. Are you planning on hand pulling this. Its doable. you will need at least 3 guys. One to pull, one to push and apply lube, and the last one to keep the wire straight and feeding to the guy pushing. The key is timing, the puller and pusher must be in time with each, when one is pulling the other is pushing, or you will be working against each other. Communication is the key. If you have to stop, you have to stop together.

Lube is the key, I have done what you said buy pulling rags through there to lube the inside of the pipe, i have even lubed the rope. These were much bigger pulls. I personally dont think you need to do that on this pull, but it doesnt hurt. make sure you tie the rags on good, last thing you want is to loose it in the pipe.

The way I make up a head, I start by putting a loop in the rope. I like a cinch knot, always had good luck. You want to keep the head as small as possible. Strip the jacket about 16" off each conductor, on the 1/0's, cut about half the strands off to make it smaller in diameter. Bring it though the loop and give a few twists around its self to make its own loop. Do this with each conductor, but stagger them, so all the ends are not together. Once you get this done, Hold the wires firmly together and wrap it with tape, the bare wire, the loops, onto the rope and about a foot back on the insulation of the conductors. Wrap it as tight as possible, and use a good quality tape, no cheap stuff. 3M 33 plus is great.

Without pictures, I could not tell you what end to pull and push from. You want to make it as easy as possible

 

[Terry D]

Dont know why it double posted, and it wont let me delete one

 

[WisJim]

We just pulled wire to my new shop. I had planned on 2/2/2/4 aluminum but then found that I had #4 copper left from a previous project so I used that instead. I had put in 2" conduit with an LB, 2-45's, and 5-90s (and a big pull box in the middle to keep it legal). There were 4 of us working on it, and I was glad that I had put in 2" and had changed to #4 copper because it was still a pain to pull. I did the pull rope connection pretty much like Terry mentioned and I also made a cone of milk bottle plastic that I taped over the wire/rope connection to make that end even smoother, and I'm glad I did. Years ago I ran 200+ feet of 3-#2 copper in 1 1/2" PVC but it was a straight shot and not a problem.

 

[Pingel85]

Everyone is going to have there own opinion or technique for pulling wire. Every pull is unique. Post some pictures. I have done many pulls in my career. I have used tuggers, vehicles, even forklifts. Are you planning on hand pulling this. Its doable. you will need at least 3 guys. One to pull, one to push and apply lube, and the last one to keep the wire straight and feeding to the guy pushing. The key is timing, the puller and pusher must be in time with each, when one is pulling the other is pushing, or you will be working against each other. Communication is the key. If you have to stop, you have to stop together.

Lube is the key, I have done what you said buy pulling rags through there to lube the inside of the pipe, i have even lubed the rope. These were much bigger pulls. I personally dont think you need to do that on this pull, but it doesnt hurt. make sure you tie the rags on good, last thing you want is to loose it in the pipe.

The way I make up a head, I start by putting a loop in the rope. I like a cinch knot, always had good luck. You want to keep the head as small as possible. Strip the jacket about 16" off each conductor, on the 1/0's, cut about half the strands off to make it smaller in diameter. Bring it though the loop and give a few twists around its self to make its own loop. Do this with each conductor, but stagger them, so all the ends are not together. Once you get this done, Hold the wires firmly together and wrap it with tape, the bare wire, the loops, onto the rope and about a foot back on the insulation of the conductors. Wrap it as tight as possible, and use a good quality tape, no cheap stuff. 3M 33 plus is great.

Without pictures, I could not tell you what end to pull and push from. You want to make it as easy as possible

This is as good advise as you’re going to get. The only thing I might do differently is use duct tape on the head. Seems to hold up better than black in this application. I might also wrap a piece of plastic around the head, gives a nice smooth finish for pulling.

 

[andyvh1959]

My recent pull was much shorter: I pulled four lengths of #2 AWG copper through 40 feet of 1-1/2" conduit, and two long sweep 90's. I used a fish tape from a buddy to pull a rope through the conduit. Then I laid out the four lengths of cable to unwind any bend in the cables. I staggered the ends of the cables each back at least six inches from the previous cable, to minimize the bulk of the cable at the first bend. Routed the rope through the cables after the 2nd staggered end, then back along the rope to create a loop with an end well back to the run of the rope and tied a cinch knot. Wrapped the whole thing in Gorilla Tape. I fed the cable group into the conduit until I felt the first 90. Started the pull at the other end and was able to pull the whole length without lube. The actual pull took less than 10 minutes.

 

[That Guy Scott]

I just did a 135’ pull with 2/0 AL in 2” conduit. It was Real similar to yours. I prelubed it with rags covered in lube, like Terry said. I used mule tape and a **** load of lube. I tried that lube foam And the regular lube and it worked well. I damn near could of pushed the whole thing. My helper pulled and I pushed, sorted and lubed as we went. We used our cell phones to communicate. Check out this YouTube vid for the pull head. I made mine similar.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, Pulling wire is not a One Man job and team work makes it easier.

 

[Terry D]

This is as good advise as you’re going to get. The only thing I might do differently is use duct tape on the head. Seems to hold up better than black in this application. I might also wrap a piece of plastic around the head, gives a nice smooth finish for pulling.

I have also used duct tape, good point

 

[alfredeneuman]

If I use pull rope 1/4 inch or larger?

A 1/4" poly pull rope is pretty much guaranteed to burn through the PVC elbows and get stuck.
Use the largest diameter, softest rope you can find.

 

[sky jumper]

did you already buy the wire? you don't need xhhw2, and its harder to pull than thwn. frankly the hardest part will be getting it thorugh the LBs, especially if you have back to back LBs (on outside and another immediately on the inside).

 

[Terry D]

did you already buy the wire? you don't need xhhw2, and its harder to pull than thwn. frankly the hardest part will be getting it thorugh the LBs, especially if you have back to back LBs (on outside and another immediately on the inside).

There is nothing wrong with that aluminum wire. It bends easier and is lighter than copper. Not to mention the cost difference

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[sky jumper]

There is nothing wrong with that aluminum wire. It bends easier and is lighter than copper. Not to mention the cost difference

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I respect your opinion, but the OP is not a pro and someone needs to tell him that #1 xhhw is harder to pull than #1 thwn. I'm not talking about Al vs copper, I'm talking about the jacket. I know this because I just finished pulling 1/1/1/6 xhhw2 through 2" pipe, and 1/1/1/6 thwn through 1-1/4" pipe. the thwn was much easier despite the smaller pipe, and geting it through the smaller LB was easier too. that was my experience, yours may be different. if I were to do it again I'd use all thwn. the thwn is also cheaper.

 

[Terry D]

I respect your opinion, but the OP is not a pro and someone needs to tell him that #1 xhhw is harder to pull than #1 thwn. I'm not talking about Al vs copper, I'm talking about the jacket. I know this because I just finished pulling 1/1/1/6 xhhw2 through 2" pipe, and 1/1/1/6 thwn through 1-1/4" pipe. the thwn was much easier despite the smaller pipe, and geting it through the smaller LB was easier too. that was my experience, yours may be different. if I were to do it again I'd use all thwn. the thwn is also cheaper.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, when i think of THWN, i think of copper

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[plout99]

I respect your opinion, but the OP is not a pro and someone needs to tell him that #1 xhhw is harder to pull than #1 thwn. I'm not talking about Al vs copper, I'm talking about the jacket. I know this because I just finished pulling 1/1/1/6 xhhw2 through 2" pipe, and 1/1/1/6 thwn through 1-1/4" pipe. the thwn was much easier despite the smaller pipe, and geting it through the smaller LB was easier too. that was my experience, yours may be different. if I were to do it again I'd use all thwn. the thwn is also cheaper.

1/0 thwn was only available in copper from the supply house I wanted aluminum so it had to be xhhw.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I will be pulling from the male end of the conduit into the female bell end I also beveled the inside edge of the male end.
Am I missing anything that is going to cause heartburn doing this?

The conduit system is required by Code to be installed (including boxes, fittings, and enclosures) before the wire is pulled.

 

[plout99]

The conduit system is required by Code to be installed (including boxes, fittings, and enclosures) before the wire is pulled.

It is completely installed my reference was regarding the direction of the pull.

 

[That Guy Scott]

It is completely installed my reference was regarding the direction of the pull.

It’ll make it, possibly, a little easier going that direction. Probably won’t matter that much in your instance though. I had the same attention to detail and I don’t think it mattered for me. And don’t sweat the thwn vs xhhw debate above. My pull was xhhw and it was easy. Let us know how it goes once you get it done.

 

[pr3dict]

I just got done running 3 4/0, 3 1/0, 1 #2, & 6 #12 through a 2 1/2" schedule 40 & Schedule 80 at some parts....

You'll be fine running 3 1/0 through a 2" haha.

 

[mcbane]

did you already buy the wire? you don't need xhhw2, and its harder to pull than thwn. frankly the hardest part will be getting it thorugh the LBs, especially if you have back to back LBs (on outside and another immediately on the inside).

Is this true in winter conditions? THHN/THWN seems to have a bad reputation for being stiff or even brittle when cold.

 

[Kaizen]

You are worrying too much. I’d use two tubs of lube and make sure it’s wrapped together on one reel. I used #2’s so I could have 125amps in garage. Pushed 50 feet by myself no problem. Two people doing this will take ten min. Use a nylon rope. Pushing into pipe when it’s being pulled in a good rhythm is key. I would not do this alone due to length


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[sky jumper]

..I used #2’s so I could have 125amps in garage.

#2 Cu for 125a? granted, my inspector said #3 Cu was good for 135, but that's a different story...

 

[sky jumper]

Is this true in winter conditions? THHN/THWN seems to have a bad reputation for being stiff or even brittle when cold.

i've got scraps of both outside in the freezing cold. both (xhhw and thhn) are equally pliable. the thhn has a smooth/slippery jacket, the xhhw is rubbery. I do believe the xhhw is a more durable jacket, but the rubbery texture causes more friction.

full disclosure, an electrician friend of mine helped me with my pull. he cursed me up & down for getting xhhw for the outside run. that's why I got thhn for the inside part.

 

[pr3dict]

i've got scraps of both outside in the freezing cold. both (xhhw and thhn) are equally pliable. the thhn has a smooth/slippery jacket, the xhhw is rubbery. I do believe the xhhw is a more durable jacket, but the rubbery texture causes more friction.

full disclosure, an electrician friend of mine helped me with my pull. he cursed me up & down for getting xhhw for the outside run. that's why I got thhn for the inside part.

I could be wrong, and I usually am but I though xhhw was the only option for aluminum in that size?

 

[alfredeneuman]

I could be wrong, and I usually am but I though xhhw was the only option for aluminum in that size?

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/...s/h08/ha4/8862515363870/AL-BLDG-Wire-58AC.pdf

 

[Kaizen]

#2 Cu for 125a? granted, my inspector said #3 Cu was good for 135, but that's a different story...

Aluminum. Just could not see buying copper after doing a ton of research


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[alfredeneuman]

my inspector said #3 Cu was good for 135

Your inspector is wrong then.
It's only rated 100A @ 75 degrees (the proper temp for terminations) and 115A @ 90 degrees (which is used only for derating purposes)

 

[sky jumper]

Aluminum. Just could not see buying copper after doing a ton of research


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but #2 Al is only rated for 90a... and #2 Cu only for 115. that was my point.

 

[sky jumper]

Your inspector is wrong then.

yes of course he was, hence my "but that's a different story" qualifier...

 

[Terry D]

I could be wrong, and I usually am but I though xhhw was the only option for aluminum in that size?

Its all what is readily available in your area, THWN aluminum is not common where I live

 

[Bert_]

Xhhw pulls fine. Most of it is actually pretty slippery. I know it's made buy I can't get aluminum thhn around here.

Xhhw is much more durable when exposed to sunlight. Not really a concern for wire in an underground conduit but worth considering when you're connecting to overhead wire.

 

[Kaizen]

but #2 Al is only rated for 90a... and #2 Cu only for 115. that was my point.

(Exasperated sigh) 2/0.


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[Terry D]

Xhhw pulls fine. Most of it is actually pretty slippery. I know it's made buy I can't get aluminum thhn around here.

Xhhw is much more durable when exposed to sunlight. Not really a concern for wire in an underground conduit but worth considering when you're connecting to overhead wire.

I agree

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[plout99]

So a conclusion to the original post. The wire is pulled, it went thru pretty easy I think but have nothing to compare to. My son was able to pull faster than I could push didn’t need the additional person. I used mule tape to prevent damage to the 90 sweeps about 2 quarts of the yellow ideal 77 lube a roll of 3m super 33 tape on the pulling head and duct tape. Very pleased with how it went. Now time to cut my teeth on bending emt.

 

[Terry D]

So a conclusion to the original post. The wire is pulled, it went thru pretty easy I think but have nothing to compare to. My son was able to pull faster than I could push didn’t need the additional person. I used mule tape to prevent damage to the 90 sweeps about 2 quarts of the yellow ideal 77 lube a roll of 3m super 33 tape on the pulling head and duct tape. Very pleased with how it went. Now time to cut my teeth on bending emt.

Glad to hear you got the wire pulled in with no problems

 

[Kaizen]

So a conclusion to the original post. The wire is pulled, it went thru pretty easy I think but have nothing to compare to. My son was able to pull faster than I could push didn’t need the additional person. I used mule tape to prevent damage to the 90 sweeps about 2 quarts of the yellow ideal 77 lube a roll of 3m super 33 tape on the pulling head and duct tape. Very pleased with how it went. Now time to cut my teeth on bending emt.

Good luck. Mine worked but not what I wanted. Hard to describe but I wanted a single plain of emt above the ceiling and ended up with two plains. Plan it out in your head in 3 dimensions. Get a laser. Cheap insurance for perfect lines. If done well you won’t need complicated bends


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[plout99]

Got the laser bought one when I was setting grade for my floor. Current temporary plan is get the lights installed since they will probably not end up moving, then move all of my equipment and start running conduit.