Wire run to the garage, size and type question.

[Hades12]

I have a short run out to my car shed. Was going to use the PVC conduit to run it.


Can I use the white indoor romex if I am putting it in PVC?

What size PVC for 3 runs of 14/2 one is for an outside light, one for outlets and one for lights.

What size PVC for 2 runs of 14/2?


Thanks for the knowledge.

 

[tfi racing]

No,you cannot use 14/2 NMD outside or underground,must have a W in the designation,ie-NMWU,RW90,etc
For a simple shed with a receptacle or two and a light or two,one circuit could do the job,but since you are going through all that effort,run at least two.14/3(or better yet 12/3) NMWU in 3/4" PVC should do the trick.

Now get ready to read all the posts suggesting parallel runs of 4" rigid conduit and a 400A,600V three phase service to your 10x10 garden shed,because who knows what the future may hold and you may want to keep your options open!

 

[Teken]

No,you cannot use 14/2 NMD outside or underground,must have a W in the designation,ie-NMWU,RW90,etc
For a simple shed with a receptacle or two and a light or two,one circuit could do the job,but since you are going through all that effort,run at least two.14/3(or better yet 12/3) NMWU in 3/4" PVC should do the trick.

Now get ready to read all the posts suggesting parallel runs of 4" rigid conduit and a 400A,600V three phase service to your 10x10 garden shed,because who knows what the future may hold and you may want to keep your options open!

 

[Norcal]

NM cable is only for DRY locations, any conduit underground or outdoors is considered by the NEC to be wet locations.

"What size PVC for 3 runs of 14/2 one is for an outside light, one for outlets and one for lights.

What size PVC for 2 runs of 14/2?"

None of those multiple runs will be code compliant, you are allowed to run one circuit out to a outbuilding plus a disconnect will be required, a multi-wire circuit using a 12 or 14/3 UF cable & a 2-pole snap switch is compliant, but running it through a conduit is a bad idea.

My suggestion is to run a oversize conduit 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" in size, install a small panel (12 circuit min 12-24 not 6-12) a main breaker with a hold down kit & 2 driven ground rods are also required, pull a 30 amp circuit w/ 4-10 AWG THWN copper conductors (Black,Red,White,&Green) that way you can have the circuits you want & if more power is desired/needed it will be a simple matter to upgrade, w/ a decent sized panel & proper sized UG conduit, your ahead of the game.

 

[sberry]

Why not a 6 space panel? You figure he might need a dozen circuits in the car shed? I might be tempted to run a panel because I can but this screams 12 3 conductor. Simple.

 

[Aceman]

Why not a 6 space panel? You figure he might need a dozen circuits in the car shed? I might be tempted to run a panel because I can but this screams 12 3 conductor. Simple.

Because you lose 4 spaces right off the bat to the backfed breaker and hold down kit. I usually do small sheds just like Norcal posted. People always add **** after you leave. When you run direct buried 12-3, you have no more options. Pvc is cheap, small panels are cheap, it just makes too much sense not to put in a little extra capacity IMO.

 

[Hades12]

Thanks guys for the input. I will get out side rated wire.


Why would I need /3 wire?

 

[trbomax]

Per NEC,any power run to a detached building or a subpanel must have 4 wires,2hot,1 neutral,1 ground.The white neutral goes to the "grounding bar". The screw that ties this "grounding bar" to the panel is removed and disgarded (it will be green). A new acessary "ground bar kit " must be installed in the panel with machine screws in there is not already one there.This bar will be used to terminate the "ground" or "bonding" wires,which are bare.

 

[sberry]

Ace, did the code changes require a main in 6 space panels?

 

[sberry]

Essentially if you use 3 conductor you can get 2 20A circuits with a 12/3 with ground, no panel required if it is on 20A breaker in the house, just a double pole switch in the garage as a disconnect. As was stated you could use bigger pipe in case of a future change, can even direct bury a UF wire. I would be tempted to put lights and an outlet on one circuit, maybe to run chargers, clocks, radio and the other circuit for power tools.

 

[Aceman]

Ace, did the code changes require a main in 6 space panels?

No, you're right. I get in a habit of backfeeding breakers and forget there are other ways to do it....

It's kind of tricky territory though, a guy really needs to read all of Art. 225 part II to fully understand what's required for outbuilding disconnects.

 

[sberry]

This sounds like a guy that wants a couple lights and a way to plug in a battery charger, maybe a vacuum cleaner or a power tool on occasion. If he had intentions on running other shop equipment or a working shop then I would be right with the gang on running a real 60 or 100A service with main and I would feed it with better than 10 wire while I was at it. Sometimes though simple and affordable is adequate, you can plan a lot of things for future use that you have investment in that never materialize too.
I have done my fair share of over kill too, some panned out, some of it sits. As i get a bit older I tend to be more practical in some sense, I may leave some options open and may be willing just to bite the bullet and go back and add if I come upon the case where I really need it.

 

[Hades12]

This sounds like a guy that wants a couple lights and a way to plug in a battery charger, maybe a vacuum cleaner or a power tool on occasion. If he had intentions on running other shop equipment or a working shop then I would be right with the gang on running a real 60 or 100A service with main and I would feed it with better than 10 wire while I was at it. Sometimes though simple and affordable is adequate, you can plan a lot of things for future use that you have investment in that never materialize too.
I have done my fair share of over kill too, some panned out, some of it sits. As i get a bit older I tend to be more practical in some sense, I may leave some options open and may be willing just to bite the bullet and go back and add if I come upon the case where I really need it.

You are correct. That is why it will be 3 runs of 14/2 If I ever build a rear garage here then it will have a real service, but this is just my car shed and I use it like one. I have two commerical use buildings in town for most anything else I need to do.

 

[Norcal]

You are correct. That is why it will be 3 runs of 14/2 If I ever build a rear garage here then it will have a real service, but this is just my car shed and I use it like one. I have two commerical use buildings in town for most anything else I need to do.

You are only allowed 1 circuit to a outbuilding per NEC art. 225.30 (2005).
A multiwire circuit is considered 1 circuit.

 

[Falcon67]

How bout a couple thousand bucks of solar cells, batteries and inverters to avoid those pesky conduit hassles?

 

[sberry]

Like Norcal said, 1 circuit allowed. I was trying to find simple drawing of a common 20A multi wire circuit for garage?

 

[sberry]

Why would I need /3 wire?

For the original poster, to simplify this a bit, the reason for the 3 conductor is that it will carry twice the power as a 2 conductor.

 

[Torque1st]

There are a number of diagrams here:
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/home...o-dwellings/wiring-a-detached-garage-2002.php
It is all 2002NEC but there may be updated info on the same site.

 

[oleguy]

There are a number of diagrams here:
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/home...o-dwellings/wiring-a-detached-garage-2002.php
It is all 2002NEC but there may be updated info on the same site.

good site..thanks for the post.

 

[sberry]

Yes, I was tempted to post that but one of the drawings was for a 30A circuit, breakers needed with that, if he limits it to 20 the over current can come from the house breaker. Could use a simple 2 pole switch for a disconnect.

 

[sharage71]

Not to hijack the thread but can I use THHN ( 2 gauge cu ) or do I have to use THWN for the underground run ( in conduit ) ?

Thx

 

[oleguy]

thhn is dry and damp.thwn is dry and wet.you need thwn.w=wet.

 

[Norcal]

thhn is dry and damp.thwn is dry and wet.you need thwn.w=wet.

THHN is for dry locations, THWN is for wet. Any outdoor or underground conduit classified by the NEC as a wet location, BTW most THHN is dual rated as THHN / THWN just check the cable jacket to be sure.

 

[oleguy]

nec..table 310.13..thhn dry and damp...