mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
worrying about the next guy is his problem, IMO. I'll use the right wire for my application and properly label the receptacle "Welder Use Only".
Wire size for welder
- Thread starter frankd
- Start date
worrying about the next guy is his problem, IMO. I'll use the right wire for my application and properly label the receptacle "Welder Use Only".
sberry
Banned
One mentions wanting an outlet for a 211 80 ft away. Lots of difference and ease, 30 cents a foot for 12, 10 can be had at 50 with full rolls and 6-3 2 bucks best.
BD1
Well-known member
I would run the 6/3 wire. It's better to have it if needed then not have it and need it. You only want to run it once.
nsula_country
Well-known member
If you have a clean slate and are running a new circuit, spend the extra $100 or so for wire.
I may NEVER fully utilize my receptacles. I have 3 inside the shop and 1 under the lean outside. I use them for welders, radial arm saw (3hp), table saw (3hp), ect. Depending on what project I'm doing I have used the saws in 2 different locations within the shop.
Spool of #6 (500') was about $200. Used EMT and surface mounted.
CT
I may NEVER fully utilize my receptacles. I have 3 inside the shop and 1 under the lean outside. I use them for welders, radial arm saw (3hp), table saw (3hp), ect. Depending on what project I'm doing I have used the saws in 2 different locations within the shop.
Spool of #6 (500') was about $200. Used EMT and surface mounted.
CT
Engineer61
Well-known member
Which ever way you decide to go with the lower amp solution to the front of your garage, I would still put a full 50 amp 6-3 wired receptacle by the sub-panel for future use. Only takes a few feet of wire, that it sounds like you already have, the box, receptacle and cover plate. Lets you add that car charger easily in the future, and I think it will be more and more important to potential buyers to have car charger capability in garages.
sberry
Banned
I can see leaving means for car chargers. A full power circuit is not a bad thing. In garages with long runs it is great for a 6 or 8 space sub that is rather cheap. Gives local disconnecting means and eliminates most voltage drop for free. Mu shop is tall, its 80 ft wide.
Add a little routing and the ups and downs and I am 130 ft before I start. Use of panels was really cheaper than a gob more overhead piping and wire upsize. Left the option of adding a welder outlet at panels in several places for cheap, add hoist pressure washer and all the general outlets and lights in the area.
Add a little routing and the ups and downs and I am 130 ft before I start. Use of panels was really cheaper than a gob more overhead piping and wire upsize. Left the option of adding a welder outlet at panels in several places for cheap, add hoist pressure washer and all the general outlets and lights in the area.
sberry
Banned
I got side tracked. I get the charger but "need to weld" is a different deal today than it was. With a couple of exceptions at the top of the power scale much if most modern welding can now be done via a 14 wire.
My bud just bought a 210 synch, 30A service, 14 wire at 48 ft. He can go to a 12 cable and be golden at 50 75 ft. He could actually run 2 of these off the same breaker. He can add another convenience outlet way over by the door for cheap and be at full power no droop. Doesn't have to be 200 or more in wire and fittings to draw 5K watts wide open for a few minutes. One of the big,,,,,, big reasons to buy a new machine is that it runs well from long economical circuits and cords.
My bud just bought a 210 synch, 30A service, 14 wire at 48 ft. He can go to a 12 cable and be golden at 50 75 ft. He could actually run 2 of these off the same breaker. He can add another convenience outlet way over by the door for cheap and be at full power no droop. Doesn't have to be 200 or more in wire and fittings to draw 5K watts wide open for a few minutes. One of the big,,,,,, big reasons to buy a new machine is that it runs well from long economical circuits and cords.
CJseven
Well-known member
Fixing to run a outlet for my welders, I have a old Lincoln buzz box hardly ever used, a small Lincoln 180 mig , and just got a new to me millermatic 250 mig. I will be running about 65 ft of wire from box to the outlet after looking up specs on the 250 was looking at 50 amp breaker, and 6-2 wire, Sound right?
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sberry
Banned
Yes.technically the 250 does need a 6 cable. 8 in pipe. I have a 250 Linc that allows 10 in pipe. Miller really made some of these heavy units. The wire rating is for rated and exceeding rated output amps and main reason was hi duty cycle, 60%. It takes another special gas and it would melt the factory gun off before it would overheat a 10 wire. For a 1 wire, 1 gas shop like found in common home/hobby garages its really moot. 8 cable is well adequate and easier to install.
The allowance for 12 wire for some machines like the buzzers is single circuit in pipe. If a heavy welder was hooked to it would either overheat the wire and short circuit or current would go so hi that it would trip a breaker. If a 14 wire is used on a 50 recept it must be limited to 30A. A 50A machine p-lugged in to that would trip the breaker.
The code people are pretty sharp,,,, if this was all really a problem they would have addressed it in the code revision, these standards have been around a long time and in some cases even better now as voltage is up 20 from when they were written, current draw has went down several amps.
Very rare a buzzer is actually ran at 225, they are ran above duty cycle and actual draw is closer to 40 than 50.
The allowance for 12 wire for some machines like the buzzers is single circuit in pipe. If a heavy welder was hooked to it would either overheat the wire and short circuit or current would go so hi that it would trip a breaker. If a 14 wire is used on a 50 recept it must be limited to 30A. A 50A machine p-lugged in to that would trip the breaker.
The code people are pretty sharp,,,, if this was all really a problem they would have addressed it in the code revision, these standards have been around a long time and in some cases even better now as voltage is up 20 from when they were written, current draw has went down several amps.
Very rare a buzzer is actually ran at 225, they are ran above duty cycle and actual draw is closer to 40 than 50.
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wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
pics too blurry
sberry
Banned
It allows 10 on 220 and 230 and wouldn't burn the place down with 10 cable on 240. But technically that machine calls for 8 cable, very similar to its competitor the Lincoln Wirematic 255 of the day. The 250 was replaced by the 251 and now 252 and maybe even a newer model, I dint look at the charts but as I recall these have quite a bit more poop on the top end than the 250.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
how can you say that the machine "calls for 8" when the manual says 10?
CJseven
Well-known member
Sorry, I just selected the low quality on the app when I posted them, reloaded them with a better quality.
sberry
Banned
The 10 is for single circuit in pipe, for cable its one size larger.
CJseven
Well-known member
I actually had a chance to look at the wiring where the welder was originally used, it was 8 THHN in EMT with a 40 amp breaker, 40 ft run from box to plug.
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sberry
Banned
Cool. If you want to can xchange that to 50. A 250 will probably run fine on 40 with 035 and the 225 runs on that unless you really bake on it.
AntonLargiader
Well-known member
I want to put a new 10' cord on a MMA-1555 welder (supposedly made by Miller, sold by numerous trucks) which lists the input as 25A max, 19A effective. Sounds like 12 is OK for the cord?
I have a 6-30/6-50 plug. The room where I'm using it has a 6-50 recep on a 50A breaker. Any harm leaving that the way it is, or should I drop the breaker to 30A or bump the cord to 10?
I have a 6-30/6-50 plug. The room where I'm using it has a 6-50 recep on a 50A breaker. Any harm leaving that the way it is, or should I drop the breaker to 30A or bump the cord to 10?
sberry
Banned
You can legally put 12 on it. It can run on a 50 breaker. Everything fits a little better on 10, the connections and it gives the little units all the hel they can get,,, operator wouldn't be able to tell the difference though. I think its minimum wire is 14 but,,,, there is a but,,,, with that, its single circuit in pipe and limited to 30A breaker. No one thinks that minimum standard on these is a great idea though, once it goes to 12 can run it on a 50 which makes it more universal and gives it a little performance bump.