Wire sizing for automatic gate openers

[jkesselr]

I have a gate opener wiring question. I have been running my gate openers on a solar pane/battery set up, but the batteries can't seem to keep up, despite the panel, the controller, and multiple sets of batteries all testing as they should.

So, screw it, now I am looking to pull power from a circuit in the pump house and run wire to gate openers for two driveways. Each driveway has a gate with two panels with one linear actuator per panel. Because these openers are of ill repute, the directions are less than stellar. All they state is that the motor voltage is 24V DC, the power is 40W, and the input voltage is 110V AC. The directions say that you should use at least 18AWG, but don't specify anything with respect to length of run.

I am having to make a lot of assumptions here, so if anybody has applicable knowledge, please chime in! I assume that the power is 40W per actuator. I believe that this would be 1.67 amps per actuator (40W/24V), or 3.33 amps per driveway. It should only ever be one driveway opening or closing at a time, so I don't think I need to double that load.

The most important driveway has a gate approximately 150' from the pump house and the second driveway gate is about another 300' beyond that. The plan was to run from the pump house to the first gate and then continue on across the property to the second gate, making it roughly 450' from the pump house to the second gate.

My current pain point is getting power to the main gate by scabbing it in with an extension cord until I can get a trencher and cut a line in and do it right. What can I get away with? The gates run 15-30 seconds or so to open or close, so it isn't a continuous load.

Longer term question, what size wire should I be looking at getting to run a permanent line to both gate openers? How would that change if I wanted to pull a separate branch off to run a flagpole with a light approximately 100 feet to the front of the line on the property (roughly 225' from the pump house)?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer!

John

 

[Codyboy]

I have a gate opener wiring question. I have been running my gate openers on a solar pane/battery set up, but the batteries can't seem to keep up, despite the panel, the controller, and multiple sets of batteries all testing as they should.

So, screw it, now I am looking to pull power from a circuit in the pump house and run wire to gate openers for two driveways. Each driveway has a gate with two panels with one linear actuator per panel. Because these openers are of ill repute, the directions are less than stellar. All they state is that the motor voltage is 24V DC, the power is 40W, and the input voltage is 110V AC. The directions say that you should use at least 18AWG, but don't specify anything with respect to length of run.

I am having to make a lot of assumptions here, so if anybody has applicable knowledge, please chime in! I assume that the power is 40W per actuator. I believe that this would be 1.67 amps per actuator (40W/24V), or 3.33 amps per driveway. It should only ever be one driveway opening or closing at a time, so I don't think I need to double that load.

The most important driveway has a gate approximately 150' from the pump house and the second driveway gate is about another 300' beyond that. The plan was to run from the pump house to the first gate and then continue on across the property to the second gate, making it roughly 450' from the pump house to the second gate.

My current pain point is getting power to the main gate by scabbing it in with an extension cord until I can get a trencher and cut a line in and do it right. What can I get away with? The gates run 15-30 seconds or so to open or close, so it isn't a continuous load.

Longer term question, what size wire should I be looking at getting to run a permanent line to both gate openers? How would that change if I wanted to pull a separate branch off to run a flagpole with a light approximately 100 feet to the front of the line on the property (roughly 225' from the pump house)?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer!

John

Bad solar panel or not enough sunshine?
Bad batteries?

My gate has 120 ran from the house about 225 ft away and I used 12-2, .14-2 would probably work too.
All the 120 does on mine is keep the battery charged , just like a solar panel.
I use a lawnmower battery charged by the control panel and 120 volts.

My cousins opener has solar and he uses an automotive size battery. Possibly a deep cycle .

 

[Dig Doug]

Like said above

what about a couple battery maintainers plugged into an extension cord

 

[turbowoodworker]

I have a similar distance to your gate and used UF-B direct burial wire. Can’t remember if 12 or 14 g. Has worked perfectly for ten years.

 

[tez929rr]

I had a similar problem - the board on my gate would get wonky and deplete the battery (12V system) and the solar panel couldn’t charge it fast enough. It was 300 feet to the gate and I decided I wanted power out there for future projects so I used 10 gauge wire in conduit.

 

[jkesselr]

I don't know why the solar is no longer seeming to work. The panel is putting out power, the batteries have been fresh, the charge controller seems to be working as it should. It is a real oddity. I patched in an extension cord for the time being, at least to the first gate. The opener has transformer built in that converts the 110v to 24v DC and everything seems to work for now. I have decided to just run power to the gates and to the front of the property. It sounds like I just need to run 10/2 in conduit and be done with it. It's gonna cost an arm and a leg at Home Depot prices, but it seems to be the best bet.

 

[jkesselr]

I have a similar distance to your gate and used UF-B direct burial wire. Can’t remember if 12 or 14 g. Has worked perfectly for ten years.

What distance is yours? My first gate is about 200' (I remeasured), and the second one is probably another 300' beyond that (500' total). Did you run 12 or 14 ga 500' or 200'?

 

[bamawildcat]

Recommend you head over to https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html and plug in all your variables. National Electric Code says anything over 5% voltage drop is not acceptable.
Spoiler, plugging in your run lengths for a 15 amp circuit results in needing some hefty cable.

 

[turbowoodworker]

I can’t be exact but it is not likely to be more than 225 ft. My GC had wire run so not sure of gauge.

What distance is yours? My first gate is about 200' (I remeasured), and the second one is probably another 300' beyond that (500' total). Did you run 12 or 14 ga 500' or 200'?

 

[no704]

Get much wind there?

 

[Youngandfree]

Watch this video, see if it can be of any help. I think i found it here before. Using POE and fiber for long runs to a gate. Click the watch on you tube link, it should play.

 

[KenC]

Using the calculator, 3a load 500 feet away shows a 12ga wire is under 5%. 14ga is slightly over 6%.

Given the facts, intermittent load if short duration, motor is actually DC rather than AC, the input is speced at 110 not 120, and my cheapness. I'd run 14ga UF. At 6% drop from 120 is still above the 110 speced.

That is assuming the AC to DC conversion still results in a full 24V available.

 

[mike93lx]

Recommend you head over to https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html and plug in all your variables. National Electric Code says anything over 5% voltage drop is not acceptable.
Spoiler, plugging in your run lengths for a 15 amp circuit results in needing some hefty cable.

He doesn't need anywhere near 15a. He can still run a 15a breaker, with wire rated for 15a or greater (at least 14 gauge), and have the voltage drop calc only support what's needed (<1A).

 

[jkesselr]

Recommend you head over to https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html and plug in all your variables. National Electric Code says anything over 5% voltage drop is not acceptable.
Spoiler, plugging in your run lengths for a 15 amp circuit results in needing some hefty cable.

Well, ****. I will have to check it out and see just how bad it is.

 

[jkesselr]

Get much wind there?

Generally not a ton, but this year has been a bit bad lately.

 

[jkesselr]

Using the calculator, 3a load 500 feet away shows a 12ga wire is under 5%. 14ga is slightly over 6%.

Given the facts, intermittent load if short duration, motor is actually DC rather than AC, the input is speced at 110 not 120, and my cheapness. I'd run 14ga UF. At 6% drop from 120 is still above the 110 speced.

That is assuming the AC to DC conversion still results in a full 24V available.

This seems reasonable. I am thinking if I choose to run the spur to power a light for a flag pole, I should probably bump it up to the 12 ga to be safe. Or am I thinking an LED flood light would draw more than it does?

 

[jkesselr]

He doesn't need anywhere near 15a. He can still run a 15a breaker, with wire rated for 15a or greater (at least 14 gauge), and have the voltage drop calc only support what's needed (<1A).

Being an admitted ***** when it comes to this, are you saying that as long as I run 14ga or bigger, I am fine to run all of this off the 15 amp breaker?

 

[mike93lx]

Being an admitted ***** when it comes to this, are you saying that as long as I run 14ga or bigger, I am fine to run all of this off the 15 amp breaker?

The breaker protects the wire. For 14 gauge, that means a 15a is what you want.

That said, it doesn't mean you should draw 15a. For an opener and a led light, you are looking at a couple amps.

When you do the voltage calc, enter the amperage you will actually use, not the circuit capacity.

 

[Torque&Recoil]

I have an opener on a single panel 12' gate, using solar. Every winter, about this time, the gate would cease to open because of a discharged battery (I am using a car battery, maybe a group 24?). After a few years of replacing the battery in the worst possible weather, or taking it to the garage and recharging it, I finally hit upon the solution. I tossed the original 20 watt solar cell and installed a 100 watt solar cell. Works perfectly, all winter long. There just isn't enough sunlight in the northern part of the US to keep a battery charged if you use a smaller solar cell. The 100 watt cell is overkill for summer, but you need it in winter. Keep in mind that in cold temperatures, you need _more_ voltage to recharge the battery. Hope this saves you the hassle of running 450 feet of underground cable.

 

[jkesselr]

The breaker protects the wire. For 14 gauge, that means a 15a is what you want.

That said, it doesn't mean you should draw 15a. For an opener and a led light, you are looking at a couple amps.

When you do the voltage calc, enter the amperage you will actually use, not the circuit capacity.

Okay. So if each pair of openers drew 3.33 amps and a LED flood light draws 330 mA, I would be looking at a max draw of 7 amps if everything was running at once? Both pairs of gates won't be operating at the same time, so it sounds like max effective draw would be sub 4 amps at any given time. Does that sound right?

 

[jkesselr]

I have an opener on a single panel 12' gate, using solar. Every winter, about this time, the gate would cease to open because of a discharged battery (I am using a car battery, maybe a group 24?). After a few years of replacing the battery in the worst possible weather, or taking it to the garage and recharging it, I finally hit upon the solution. I tossed the original 20 watt solar cell and installed a 100 watt solar cell. Works perfectly, all winter long. There just isn't enough sunlight in the northern part of the US to keep a battery charged if you use a smaller solar cell. The 100 watt cell is overkill for summer, but you need it in winter. Keep in mind that in cold temperatures, you need _more_ voltage to recharge the battery. Hope this saves you the hassle of running 450 feet of underground cable.

That actually could be incredibly helpful! I will look into it. Also, one of my gates is pretty shaded, I presume a larger solar panel (meaning more square inches, not more watts) would possibly help?

 

[mike93lx]

Okay. So if each pair of openers drew 3.33 amps and a LED flood light draws 330 mA, I would be looking at a max draw of 7 amps if everything was running at once? Both pairs of gates won't be operating at the same time, so it sounds like max effective draw would be sub 4 amps at any given time. Does that sound right?

Yes.

If you install an outlet there for something like lights, label it as such.

Do the openers draw DC or ac? I thought you only needed to run the charger. If so, the draw of the opener motor doesn't matter

 

[Torque&Recoil]

Shade on the solar cells is a problem. In winter, any sunlight is weak, days are short, and you need all you can get. You have to have sufficient voltage to recharge a battery, and small (both size and watts) panels just cannot produce sufficient voltage at the resistance of the battery, to recharge it. In my case (12v system), a lead acid car battery takes at least 14 volts (probably more like 14.5) to charge when it is cold, and the 20 watt panel just couldn't do it. I honestly can't say that 100 watts of PV is "the answer", but I was so sick of the thing not working in January, so... bang, apply a big hammer. It wasn't that expensive - I bought the 100 watt panel from Home Depot for about $100. I made the upgrade 2 years ago and since then the gate keeps working, even on the coldest days. My location is NE Ohio and we don't get a lot of sunny days here.

 

[jkesselr]

Yes.

If you install an outlet there for something like lights, label it as such.

Do the openers draw DC or ac? I thought you only needed to run the charger. If so, the draw of the opener motor doesn't matter

No, I'm looking at running it off the transformer that converts the AC input to DC output, which is what the linear actuators operate off of.

 

[jkesselr]

Shade on the solar cells is a problem. In winter, any sunlight is weak, days are short, and you need all you can get. You have to have sufficient voltage to recharge a battery, and small (both size and watts) panels just cannot produce sufficient voltage at the resistance of the battery, to recharge it. In my case (12v system), a lead acid car battery takes at least 14 volts (probably more like 14.5) to charge when it is cold, and the 20 watt panel just couldn't do it. I honestly can't say that 100 watts of PV is "the answer", but I was so sick of the thing not working in January, so... bang, apply a big hammer. It wasn't that expensive - I bought the 100 watt panel from Home Depot for about $100. I made the upgrade 2 years ago and since then the gate keeps working, even on the coldest days. My location is NE Ohio and we don't get a lot of sunny days here.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. I am in NW Oregon, so I suspect weather is similar. Maybe I will try a bigger panel before I pull the trigger on running a dedicated line.