wire welds itself to the contact tip

[Wamsutta]

That probably means the drive roll tension is set too loose correct? My theory is that the wire is coming out and trying to poke itself into the work piece but it can't because the drive rolls are slipping. So the work piece pushes the wire back up against the contact tip and welds itself to the tip. At least I hope that's the case. I'm hoping all I have to do is put more tension on the drive rolls and the problem will go away.

 

[William Payne]

What condition is the metal you are welding? How clean is where you are clamping your earth?

 

[Wamsutta]

Super clean metal and the ground clamp is clamped to the weld table. The piece I'm welding is clamped to the table with a bar clamp.

 

[William Payne]

Super clean metal and the ground clamp is clamped to the weld table. The piece I'm welding is clamped to the table with a bar clamp.

That's good as its an important variable to eliminate. How close to the work are you. How much "stick out" are you running? I have had this happen and burn back plays a big part when the weld is going back up into the tip due to being too close.

 

[Wamsutta]

That's good as its an important variable to eliminate. How close to the work are you. How much "stick out" are you running? I have had this happen and burn back plays a big part when the weld is going back up into the tip due to being too close.

I'm supposed to be running 3/8'' stick out. I keep the gas nozzle as close to the weld pool as possible without blocking my view. There was one time that I actually welded the gas nozzle to the work piece. I have the flow set to 10 CFH 75/25 because I'm cheap.

 

[William Payne]

I'm supposed to be running 3/8'' stick out. I keep the gas nozzle as close to the weld pool as possible without blocking my view. There was one time that I actually welded the gas nozzle to the work piece. I have the flow set to 10 CFH 75/25 because I'm cheap.

Welding doesn't give a damn about your wallet, weld right weld good or not at all. Just to rule it out set your gas to where it should be, don't be so close with your nozzle and try again, not that 10cfh is bad its just really low. But gas flow is probably the most important thing you can set, it impacts so much.

If you are welding your nozzle to the work you are doing something wrong.

 

[William Payne]

Also I never asked what is your wire feed set to?

Try the proper stick out, set your gas to say 18-20cfh, don't be so close with the nozzle and do some practice welds. It wont hurt to try for a few welds and see what happens on some practice pieces. You can also change it back.

 

[William Payne]

Miller has a handy calculator which is really helpful to give you a baseline when you are lost and don't know what is wrong. Give you a rough idea to know where your settings should be and then you can fine adjust from there. If your setup is right and still having problems then it narrows things down.

Weld Setting Calculators - MIG, Flux-Cored, Stick, TIG | MillerWelds

Browse suggested weld parameter settings for Stick Welding, TIG Welding, MIG (Solid-Wire) Welding and MIG (Flux-Core) Welding.

www.millerwelds.com

 

[MushCreek]

Oddly enough, worn tips will do that. Try a fresh tip.

 

[Wamsutta]

Also I never asked what is your wire feed set to?

I was running 18.7V / 359 IPM. 10 gauge mild steel. 230V input.

 

[BORING HOP YARD]

FWIW, I had a gun liner that was bad and caused the same condition, right sized tip for the wire being used?

 

[Zeke]

I'm supposed to be running 3/8'' stick out. I keep the gas nozzle as close to the weld pool as possible without blocking my view. There was one time that I actually welded the gas nozzle to the work piece. I have the flow set to 10 CFH 75/25 because I'm cheap.

Gas nozzle shouldn't be grounded. I guess if the wire bent sideways that can happen. The only times I have stuck the wire at the nozzle my voltage was low.

 

[no704]

When I have this happen I will free the wire then while pulling on it with pliers swing it around in like a 60deg cone as if you are trying to counter sink the tip.
Nozzle dip helps allot too.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

yeah try some nozzle gel.

 

[Wamsutta]

Nozzle gel might be a good idea because I'm constantly having to clean out the nozzle from spatter. I've got the gas flow set so low that I can't afford to have any blockage in the nozzle at all.

 

[William Payne]

Nozzle gel might be a good idea because I'm constantly having to clean out the nozzle from spatter. I've got the gas flow set so low that I can't afford to have any blockage in the nozzle at all.

The worse your gas flow the worse your spatter will be. Gas coverage is astronomically important. You might be smacking yourself in the face trying to save money on gas. You don't want it too high and waste gas, but too low wont help you.

 

[Wamsutta]

The worse your gas flow the worse your spatter will be. Gas coverage is astronomically important. You might be smacking yourself in the face trying to save money on gas. You don't want it too high and waste gas, but too low wont help you.

I'm finding out that all the weld parameter charts are for flat and horizontal.

Where would you set your parameters for 0.030'' wire, 0.250'' mild steel plate, 3F (which is a vertical up fillet weld)?

Please give me the voltage, wire feed speed, and gas flow for 75/25. Thanks.

 

[William Payne]

I'm finding out that all the weld parameter charts are for flat and horizontal.

Where would you set your parameters for 0.030'' wire, 0.250'' mild steel plate, 3F (which is a vertical up fillet weld)?

Please give me the voltage, wire feed speed, and gas flow for 75/25. Thanks.

Vertical up is really really tricky. I can't give you settings straight off my head as its too variable.

But gas flow on the other hand can be easier to gauge based on the size of the hole in your nozzle and so forth.

https://weldguru.com/wp-content/uploads/mig-gas-pressure-flow-rate-chart.png

You want to fix your problem, we are trying to help you. I am just saying that hey you are currently running 10cfh, that is low and you are getting lots of spatter and a sticking tip. Try doubling the gas flow and see if your spatter decreases and whether you still get the sticking tip. Also if your nozzle is being welded to the steel you are too close, back off a bit. If you say "I am that close because I need gas coverage" well once again your gas flow is too low.

Just practice on some junk pieces and see what happens, if you aren't happy just change it back to where you had it.

You said you run 10cfm because you are cheap, well your welder doesn't care.

I am trying to give suggestions that don't require you to buy anything beyond what you have.

 

[William Payne]

Also I treat tips as throw away consumables. One thing to definitely rule out is a bad tip. Chuck a new one on.

 

[Wamsutta]

Vertical up is really really tricky. I can't give you settings straight off my head as its too variable.

But gas flow on the other hand can be easier to gauge based on the size of the hole in your nozzle and so forth.

https://weldguru.com/wp-content/uploads/mig-gas-pressure-flow-rate-chart.png

You want to fix your problem, we are trying to help you. I am just saying that hey you are currently running 10cfh, that is low and you are getting lots of spatter and a sticking tip. Try doubling the gas flow and see if your spatter decreases and whether you still get the sticking tip. Also if your nozzle is being welded to the steel you are too close, back off a bit. If you say "I am that close because I need gas coverage" well once again your gas flow is too low.

Just practice on some junk pieces and see what happens, if you aren't happy just change it back to where you had it.

You said you run 10cfm because you are cheap, well your welder doesn't care.

I am trying to give suggestions that don't require you to buy anything beyond what you have.

Yes I appreciate all your help, absolutely. I'm not really that cheap. It's just that the gas is so astronomically expensive. My last refill was $96.00 for a 125CF bottle. I cringe every time I squeeze the trigger and hear the gas solenoid open up.

 

[William Payne]

Yes I appreciate all your help, absolutely. I'm not really that cheap. It's just that the gas is so astronomically expensive. My last refill was $96.00 for a 125CF bottle. I cringe every time I squeeze the trigger and hear the gas solenoid open up.

I know. I just want to rule it out. If increasing the gas flow helps it allows us to narrow it down. If it does nothing then we keep looking and you can go back to your 10cfh. A few welds at a higher flow rate, won't empty your bottle unless you weld for hours on end.

 

[Jack Ryan]

That probably means the drive roll tension is set too loose correct? My theory is that the wire is coming out and trying to poke itself into the work piece but it can't because the drive rolls are slipping. So the work piece pushes the wire back up against the contact tip and welds itself to the tip. At least I hope that's the case. I'm hoping all I have to do is put more tension on the drive rolls and the problem will go away.

You didn't give any information about the configuration or your action when this happens.

Check the normal stuff first.

1. Are you using the correct contact tip?
2. Can you hold the wire as it feeds and not stop it immediately? (rollers too loose)
3. Does the spool stop when you release the trigger or does it want to keep going? (insufficient braking)
4. Set the gas flow properly.
5. Use the right stickout (if you stick the contact tip to the work you are far too close)

Now, when does the wire weld itself to the contact tip?

1. When you let go of the trigger? (too much burnback)
2. While you are welding normally (mid weld)? (contact tip too big, too worn, partially blocked by spatter)

That'll do for the moment.

Jack

 

[MoonRise]

Not really directly related to your burnback issue, but your shielding gas flow is too low. General parameter for short-circuit transfer mode GMAW with 'small' wire and 'small' machines and gas nozzles is 20-25 CFH flow rate. Running 10 CFH is too low and I'm surprised you aren't having shielding gas issues (porosity, oxidation, 'crusty' weld beads, etc).

Just like the cost of the wire electrode, the cost of the shielding gas for the GMAW process is a consumable cost. No avoiding it. Don't waste the gas, but you absolutely need the shielding gas to 'blanket' the arc and the weld puddle until the weld resolidifies and the arc is done. Oh, and in case you didn't realize it, the shielding gas flow is also cooling the welding torch and cable.

Speaking of consumables, the contact tip is a consumable. They don't last forever. Make sure that you have the CORRECT contact tip for the wire diameter that you are using.

You also need the correct CTWD (contact tip work distance). Which for 'small' wire solid wires and 'small' machines running in short-circuit transfer mode (as opposed to spray transfer mode) is usually 1/2" +/- 1/8" or so. If you stuck the contact tip to the workpiece while welding, you were too close.

You also need the feed rollers to be working properly, with the proper tension to smoothly feed the wire. Not enough tension on the rollers and they slip instead of smoothly feeding the wire and you can get burnback that way.

Check here for some common MIG problems and how to fix them: https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/.../Process-and-Theory/MIG-Problems-and-Remedies

 

[welder4956]

If the wire is fusing to the contact tip, you are experiencing "burn back". You can file the end of the tip to remove the fused metal, but that usually leaves burrs inside the tip that the wire will catch on. Put a new tip on, then adjust the tension on the drive rolls to the point that you can't stop the wire when you squeeze the wire between your thumb and forefinger where it exits the tip. If the wire stops when you squeeze it, the drive rolls need more tension. Also, make sure the drive rolls are sized for the wire diameter you are using. If not, get the right size drive rolls.

 

[bdbecker]

...I cringe every time I squeeze the trigger and hear the gas solenoid open up.

Instead of thinking about the cost of the gas, think about the money you are able to save by making your own repairs and building your own stuff instead.

I personally don't really like the mess of nozzle gel. This stuff is fantastic:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074D3195Q/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The price is a little steep, but a little bit goes a long way. Unless you are welding every day, a can will last the typical hobbyist a very long time.

 

[no704]

If you want to save gas money just run straight CO2. It’s all I ever use for MIG. I actually don’t like the mix gas as well. And my spare tank can also be used in my kegerator!

 

[Copymutt]

If you want to save gas money just run straight CO2. It’s all I ever use for MIG. I actually don’t like the mix gas as well. And my spare tank can also be used in my kegerator!

Ditto on that. Been doing same for decades.

 

[scooby074]

What brand and model of welder ?

Crank up the gas.
New tip.
When was the liner changed?
Are the drive wheels clean?
Is the wire clean and free of rust?
Check your settings against the Miller App or some other reference.
Set your drive tension using the block of wood method. If the tension is good, you have something else going on or your technique is bad.
Get your flat technique down before going to more advanced welding. Vert up is among the hardest to master.

 

[1320stang]

How long does your pressure gauge take to zero after you close the bottle valve? Many years ago I rented an O/A setup and never turned the bottles off, returned it with empty bottles, I could have owned a new setup for what they charged me. If I know I'm not welding for about 5 minutes due to fitup issues or going to take a leak, I turn my bottle valve off, but I'm hobby not production.

 

[Wamsutta]

UPDATE :

I found the problem. In the drawing below, number 5 was sticking to number 4.

So what I did is apply grease (Super Lube 21030) exactly to the areas pointed to by the red arrows.

Super Lube works great for lubing plastic. Now the spool of wire flows freely.

 

[PCustoms]

UPDATE :

I found the problem. In the drawing below, number 5 was sticking to number 4.

So what I did is apply grease (Super Lube 21030) exactly to the areas pointed to by the red arrows.

Super Lube works great for lubing plastic. Now the spool of wire flows freely.

Good find.

What welder model? I'm going to check mine, as it has never seemed smooth.

Now go adjust the gas and your stickout like everyone has said and I bet you make your best welds ever.

 

[Wamsutta]

Good find.

What welder model? I'm going to check mine, as it has never seemed smooth.

Now go adjust the gas and your stickout like everyone has said and I bet you make your best welds ever.

I try to keep my stick out between 3/8 and 1/2 inch.

 

[Chateau Slate 66]

Does it have a "burn back" dial on the controls? I accidentally bumped mine off of zero on my Lincoln a while back and it had me chasing the same issue until I saw it and turned it back to zero.

 

[Zeke]

How long does your pressure gauge take to zero after you close the bottle valve? Many years ago I rented an O/A setup and never turned the bottles off, returned it with empty bottles, I could have owned a new setup for what they charged me. If I know I'm not welding for about 5 minutes due to fitup issues or going to take a leak, I turn my bottle valve off, but I'm hobby not production.

This. There are leaks no matter what you think. People don't use solenoid valves on O2 or Ace that I know of.

 

[PhantomEB]

I was experiencing this last week to the point I ran out of .023 tips…..

got to order another bulk order now then get back on this thread.

 

[Jack Ryan]

There are leaks no matter what you think.

I checked a MIG recently - I turned the cylinder valve off and after a fortnight, the cylinder pressure gauge hadn't dropped. When I opened the valve, the gauge didn't move.

No, it was not already empty.

It probably does leak, but I would need to leave it for a few months to see it.

Jack

 

[Monza Harry]

As to the burn back, that usually indicates too little wire feed. I will get that on my original MIG, just too small for what I was trying to make it do, so I would slow the wire to get more heat into the metal by welding longer to get the same build up. So predictably I would cross the line and weld the wrong parts together [tip to filler]. The gas issue, these valves are typically "dual seat" valves that means the closed position is similar/same as an old fashioned bathroom tap, easy but these have a seat and washer for fully open this means that there is no pressure on the stem/packing to reduce/prevent leakage out the stem. So open the valve FULLY to insure no leakage from before the regulator. This applies to any high pressure bottles Inert, Oxy, Acet, and Propane. Harry

 

[Jack Ryan]

As to the burn back, that usually indicates too little wire feed.

It depends when it happens. If it happens when you let go of the trigger, the burnback control is incorrectly set. If it happens while welding, more often than not, there is a wire feed issue. It can also happen if the wire feed is too slow.

The gas issue, these valves are typically "dual seat" valves that means the closed position is similar/same as an old fashioned bathroom tap, easy but these have a seat and washer for fully open this means that there is no pressure on the stem/packing to reduce/prevent leakage out the stem. So open the valve FULLY to insure no leakage from before the regulator. This applies to any high pressure bottles Inert, Oxy, Acet, and Propane. Harry

They must be old valves. Here (Australia), the suppliers I have used state "do not fully open the valve". I don't remember how many years it has been since I saw one of the old valves.

I don't remember ever turning a fuel valve on fully.

Jack

 

[Monza Harry]

It depends when it happens. If it happens when you let go of the trigger, the burnback control is incorrectly set. If it happens while welding, more often than not, there is a wire feed issue. It can also happen if the wire feed is too slow.



They must be old valves. Here (Australia), the suppliers I have used state "do not fully open the valve". I don't remember how many years it has been since I saw one of the old valves.
I don't remember ever turning a fuel valve on fully.
Jack

I have experienced bottles leaking, welder hold pressure with this bottle and that one leaks, and Propane smell around lift trucks that it only happened occasionally, that means bottle not a machine issue. This is my experience, just sharing as such.

 

[mookandairin]

Miller has a handy calculator which is really helpful to give you a baseline when you are lost and don't know what is wrong. Give you a rough idea to know where your settings should be and then you can fine adjust from there. If your setup is right and still having problems then it narrows things down.

Weld Setting Calculators - MIG, Flux-Cored, Stick, TIG | MillerWelds

Browse suggested weld parameter settings for Stick Welding, TIG Welding, MIG (Solid-Wire) Welding and MIG (Flux-Core) Welding.

www.millerwelds.com

I like that. Thanks I’ll use it for sure