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Wiring 150 Amp Sub-Panel

El_Diablo

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Apr 9, 2011
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Wooster, Ohio
I have a 200 amp service in the house. I've sourced a 150 amp breaker that will work with my main panel (the plan is to used a main lug sub). The run is less than 100ft but I'm limited to the current conduit size for the existing 50amp service. The good news is that the conduit is 1 1/2" which is the proper size for a max fill of 4 1/0 wires which is what is required for the 150 amp sub panel.

Now heres my question. I can't seem to find 1/0 3 conductor copper wire anywhere. Am I missing something or are things done differently once you get to that size wire? I know how to run the wire and hook it up but somehow I'm just getting lost with this. Any help is appreciated.
 
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C96

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Looks like (3) 1/0 and (1) 6 for the equipment ground.
Any good electrical wholesale house will have this.
 

Norcal

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If you have more then 6 circuits, a main will be required if this is a detached structure. Does the main panel have instructions allowing a 150A breaker to be used? Many panels have restrictions on the maximum breaker ampere rating per branch bus stab, limiting them to 100A maximum.
 
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El_Diablo

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Looks like I need to go to an electrical supply shop instead of just a box store? I hate living in the middle of Amish Ohio.

Great info on needing a main breaker in a detached structure! The Siemens panel I have lists- " Ratings: 200A Maximum - See Main Breaker Rating if Used", so it appears I'm fine using the 150a breaker.

If I could get away with a 75a run I would but the powder coating setup i'll be running requires more power than that. The Commercial grade oven I'm looking to get is probably going to be close to maxing that out by itself.
 

2ManyProjects

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I have a 200 amp service in the house. I've sourced a 150 amp breaker that will work with my main panel (the plan is to used a main lug sub).

As already pointed out, assuming a detached structure and more than six branch breakers in the sub-panel, you WILL need to have a "Local Disconnect". The easiest way to do that is to use a Main Breaker Panel. The (not-really)"Main" breaker in the sub panel needs to be rated for AT LEAST as much current as the branch breaker in the main panel which is actually protecting the feeder cable; in your case, 200A would be fine.

The run is less than 100ft but I'm limited to the current conduit size for the existing 50amp service. The good news is that the conduit is 1 1/2" which is the proper size for a max fill of 4 1/0 wires which is what is required for the 150 amp sub panel.

You're obviously assuming copper wire, as opposed to aluminum. That will work, provided it fits on that 150A branch breaker you found; and at "less than 100ft" voltage drop won't be a problem. But man, it is going to CO$T!

Now heres my question. I can't seem to find 1/0 3 conductor copper wire anywhere. Am I missing something or are things done differently once you get to that size wire?

You'll probably need to use separate pulls of THWN:

http://www.southwire.com/products/THHNTHWNTWN75T90OEM.htm
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-500-ft-1-0-Stranded-THHN-Wire-Black-20505402/202316221
a9048058-73d2-46c3-8ea5-2f7594fdec69_1000.jpg


Buying a 500-foot spool might seem like expensive overkill; but in the long run, it may well be cheaper than buying ~300 feet "by the foot".

Note that since you will be using the same (black) wire for all three main conductors, there are marking requirements in the NEC which must be adhered to.

Looks like I need to go to an electrical supply shop instead of just a box store? I hate living in the middle of Amish Ohio.

Great info on needing a main breaker in a detached structure! The Siemens panel I have lists- " Ratings: 200A Maximum - See Main Breaker Rating if Used", so it appears I'm fine using the 150a breaker.

I could be wrong; but MY interpretation of that would be that it is the PANEL ITSELF which is rated for 200A Max, unless a lower value is imposed by the installed main breaker. That is separate and distinct from (and thus does not address) any more-restrictive limitations on individual branch breakers.

If I could get away with a 75a run I would but the powder coating setup i'll be running requires more power than that. The Commercial grade oven I'm looking to get is probably going to be close to maxing that out by itself.

IF you can get by with a 90A feed, the 2-2-2-4 MHF will still work, and save you a ton of money. I have no idea why "theoldwizard1" suggested a 75A breaker.

 
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theoldwizard1

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Looks like I need to go to an electrical supply shop instead of just a box store? I hate living in the middle of Amish Ohio.
Yeah, it's really hard to find a good Amish electrician ! :lol:

Great info on needing a main breaker in a detached structure! The Siemens panel I have lists- " Ratings: 200A Maximum - See Main Breaker Rating if Used", so it appears I'm fine using the 150a breaker.
With the size of copper you quoted, you should be okay. It will just cost you a lot of money !
 
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El_Diablo

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I decided to step down to a 100amp run instead of a 150amp. This allows me to switch to 2-2-2-4 aluminum which lowers my wire cost from over $800 to under $150. This also greatly lowers the box costs. Thanks for all the advice guys!
 

Aceman

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If I could get away with a 75a run I would but the powder coating setup i'll be running requires more power than that. The Commercial grade oven I'm looking to get is probably going to be close to maxing that out by itself.

I decided to step down to a 100amp run instead of a 150amp. This allows me to switch to 2-2-2-4 aluminum which lowers my wire cost from over $800 to under $150. This also greatly lowers the box costs. Thanks for all the advice guys!

First, #2 aluminum MHF is only good for 90 amps, like the other poster mentioned, not 100 amps. Two, if your oven is going to use at least 75 amps by itself, what makes you think a 100 amp panel will carry that, plus the rest of the garage loads?
 
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El_Diablo

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http://www.allenelectric.com/referencedata/ampacity.htm

According to that and other ampacity charts, THWN-2 aluminum is rated at 100 amps. The oven will run at right around 50amps and I will utilize a 60amp circuit breaker for it. My compressor is on a 30amp circuit and my lights shouldn't be using much amperage at all. When powder coating I'm the only one working so theres not to much risk of overloading the circuit.
 

Norcal

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You are using the wrong column, the ninety degree column can only be used for deratng, not sizing the conductor, #2 AL has a 90A rating.
 

pattenp

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Since you are hearing 75A and 90A for #2 Al, I'll clarify. #2 Al is 75A at 60 deg and 90A at 75 deg. If using THHN/THWN or RHH//RHW-2 the 75 deg rating can be used which is 90A.

Edit: Just so you're aware, when sizing NM-b (Romex), the ampcapacity needs to be always based on the 60 deg amp column.
 
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