Wiring a Benwil TP7 2 post lift - Help/Suggestions

[Lat42 Motors]

Hey Everyone,

I recently bought an old Benwil TP7 that I'm restoring and installing in my home garage. I'm all set on anchoring it to the concrete, but I need help and some suggestions on how to get the two connected.

This is my first post. I've searched the forums and google and learned a lot, but I'm still not sure what to do.
A little about me - I'm 24 and I run an auto parts design and retail business out of my father's garage. I work on cars a lot, but I have limited experience with home wiring. Keep it simple for me please

Here's the lift up on blocks -

There is a cord hanging from the motor with wires - Green, Red and White. I know green is ground and the others are hot.

I have 3 outlets on the opposite wall, about 14 ft. away from where the motor will be.

I know my garage is wired for the required 220V. From reading other threads I learned I need a 25-30 amp breaker for the motor. I checked my ancient *** circuit breakers (old barn in MA) and in a faded, barely legible writing I see two potential options:
220V Air Comp (20 amp) and
220V Welder (50 amp)

Here's what I'm hoping to do:
Ideally I'd like to run a chord across the ceiling and plug the lift into one of the existing outlets... but I'm not sure what circuits they go to or which one to use. Is it possible to use the 50 amp Welder circuit and run an in-line 30 amp fuse/breaker?

I'd also like to install a kill switch next to the lift so I can cut power in the unlikely case that it malfunctions. Any suggestions on where to get the plug, chord, breaker and kill switch?

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, except for "pay a professional to do it." I like to do things myself. My father is a carpenter and will be helping.
Also, this is currently the only 220V device in use in the shop.

Thanks everyone! Great forum, there's a ton of info here.

 

[PRH44]

Can you give me the horse power and or amper rating on your lift?
How far from the panel is your lift?
You want a disconnect switch closer than 14' as in right on the unit?
There are several options here to be thrifty or economically just if you will.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

If the motor up top has a data plate on it, a good clear pic of it would help. Also pics of the lift data plate if there is one.

Charles

 

[PRH44]

Option #1
You can change the 50 amp breaker out with a 30 amp breaker or just add one and leave the 50 for future.
If 30 amps will run your machine hence the questions above.

Install a # 10/2 romex from the panel to a box in a postion you want near the machine.
You can install a 30 amp 2 pole switch in this box and use as a disconnect.
Then install the 10/2 from the box to the lift.
This is the most straight forward approach and cheapest depending on how fat away the panel is.
All product would be available at the big box stores

 

[Lat42 Motors]

I got a ladder and camera phone'd a pic of the electric motor:

Thanks for all the fast responses! Let me know what you think.

The lift is about 20 feet from the panel and 14 feet from the outlets.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Looks like you have two open slots in that panel, that are not adjacent. You will probably end up moving the breakers on the RH side up one, or down one, to make to adjoining slots open, then you can install a double pole breaker. Moving the breakers is nothing more than killing the main and one at a time unsnapping them from the bus and moving them up a slot and re snapping them in place, and reforming the wires slightly.

The narrow breakers with two handles, I've never seen, but I see a couple of double pole Square D breakers in there (the ones with the yellow printing on the face), so you should be able to buy one at Home Depot or Lowes if this is nothing more than an older Square D QO type panel board.

With a 16.3 amp motor, you really could get away with a 20 amp 240v circuit, 12 gauge wire, but you are probably better off using 10 gauge and a 30 amp breaker. The distance is of no consequence in this installation, distances only become a problem when they exceed about 70 ft of wire. You really need to breaker it and protect it at 125% of what NEC says is the amps for the HP, but we don't know the HP, the data plate doesn't tell us, so if we use the data plate amps, a 20 amp circuit is shy of the 125% by a very slight amount, .375 amp to be exact, so go to the 30 amp circuit and you will be much better off. Is this a mechanical screw jack type lift? doesn't look hydraulic. Looks like a motor running a gearbox running a screw, running a chain under the floor plate, running the other screw. Must be OLD.

Charles

 

[Lat42 Motors]

Thank you charles. I read of similar setups using 10 gauge and a 30 amp, so that's probably what I'll go with. The two square double breakers at the bottom are where I see 220V compressor and 220V welder.

I know it doesn't look hydraulic, but I can see fluid lines running from top to bottom and back. The pump is well hidden, and the floorplate hides two cables. Yes, it's definitely old, but the original benwils were quality machines.

 

[Lat42 Motors]

ok, I think I've got it.

I'm going to wire this 30 amp fused 2 pole saftey switch directly to the motor and mount it to the lift column:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...talogId=10053&productId=100174288&R=100174288

Then run 10/2 romex from the 2 pole switch, up across the ceiling, and plug it into the largest of the three outlets. I tested them and the largest outlet connects to the 50amp double breaker labeled "welder."

The 30 amp fuse in the switch will allow me to keep the 50 amp breaker unchanged, correct?

 

[pattenp]

If you are going to use a plug you should use SO cord, not romex wire. Romex is not meant to be used as a cord with a plug.

No on keeping the 50A. The 30A fuse is not protecting the cord by being on the tail end. Well... In theory it is. It's just not normal to put the protection on the end of the circuit being protected. Just not proper, you should put the protection at the front end.

 

[Lat42 Motors]

Ok, I ran into a little problem.

The motor actually has 4 wires - green ground, white neutral, red and black hot. Both of my 220v outlets in my garage only have 3 prongs.
Can I wire the motor to the ground and the two hots, and leave the neutral unconnected?

 

[pattenp]

The actual motor has a neutral or is it that the control unit has a neutral. There maybe a 120V relay that activates the motor.

 

[PRH44]

I cannot definitively tell if the neutral is needed by the information at hand. It is possible the neutral is used for the control circuit. Maybe a photo inside of the terminal box or control panel would help?

 

[Lat42 Motors]

I figured it out!

I removed the control panel and found a toshiba box with some writing on it. I took some pictures, then pulled the cover off and started looking around... and I couldn't see any black wire coming from the cable connecting to anything. I got a flashlight and found the black wire... cut flush with the cable.

Turns out someone must have replaced the cable, and used a 4 wire instead of a 3. They wired up the white wire and just left the black wire cut and not connected to anything.

Thanks for the advice on looking further into the control panel. I'm hoping to test it out tonight!

 

[Strouty]

When I did mine, I ran 10 gauge romex to a junction box on the ceiling, then ran some SO cord down to the lift. I installed a twist lock connector so that I could push the hydraulic release with my forearm while undoing the connector with my hands.

 

[Lat42 Motors]

Well I wired everything up and hit the "up" lever.... The motor just makes a buzzing noise. Tried switching the hot wires, does the same thing. lame. I'll have to get further into it tomorrow.

 

[sberry]

That hoist will run from a 12/20 circuit, that un used air comp circuit would be ideal. The 25-30A breaker is Max, if the 20 works without trip its fine. As for wire I have never seen one of these require a wire larger than 12 in the electric service guide, they have a run time of like 45 seconds or something.
Just as a personal note, if I had enough wire I would fix it and use the black like its sposed to be and cap the white or at a minimum take a sharpie and color what you can see of it black.

 

[sberry]

I see your post, first thing is to see if the motor is seized.

 

[Lat42 Motors]

Gave the motor a couple whacks with a hammer and it freed up. The lift works awesome! Thanks everyone.
Now I just have to lag it to the floor. I'm going to use an epoxy but my concrete is too cold for adequate curing. Looks like I'll have to wait until it warms up.

 

[sberry]

How heavy is the floor, if it was 6 inch and not cracked there I might be tempted to use common mechanical anchor bolts and git er done. If the concrete was crummy I would epoxy them.