Wiring a light switch

[Eric29]

Is it still acceptable to wire a light switch this way or do I have to bring the hot lead and the neutral into the box with the light switch?

Thanks

 

[PassnThru]

I hope so. If not I'm in big trouble. I've always heard it referred to as a switch leg and while the white wire can benefit with a bit of black electrical tape at both ends it's pretty much understood how it was wired when there is only one romex cable running into the switch box.

 

[Eric29]

Thanks. I asked because I read that there was a code change that required a neutral in the switch box because people are installing automatic light switches and they need a neutral. I’ll read the code. I just thought someone might know.

 

[The Cobbler]

pretty sure that light switches now need a neutral in the box. I wonder if you can use 3 wire and cap off the neutral?

 

[PassnThru]

Thanks. I asked because I read that there was a code change that required a neutral in the switch box because people are installing automatic light switches and they need a neutral. I’ll read the code. I just thought someone might know.

Well wait for more advice - I'm not an electrician and I live in KY and not NY so YMMV. I did not know you thought that there might be a code change - codes vary between locations. I'm only saying it is normally fine. You might rephrase your question this way - 'Is this still to code in the state of NY?'.

 

[teamextreme]

Last code cycle they added a requirement that all switch boxes need a neutral pulled to them, so the way you showed using a switch leg is no longer allowed by code.

 

[Eric29]

Thank you.

Last code cycle they added a requirement that all switch boxes need a neutral pulled to them, so the way you showed using a switch leg is no longer allowed by code.

 

[Denwood]

More and more devices (like Zwave switches, smart devices, motion detection switches etc) require a neutral at the box..so it's a good idea to plan for this regardless.

 

[Favguy]

Last code cycle they added a requirement that all switch boxes need a neutral pulled to them, so the way you showed using a switch leg is no longer allowed by code.

That might be a good idea. But codes/regulations should be concerned with safety alone, not convenience. If you don't plan to have automation at a given switch, why should you be forced into additional work by the authorities! In the US you still have things like unsleeved, bare cpc's (earths) everywhere, which is a real, valid potential danger & this is what they worry about?! Sheesh...

 

[TRWham]

That might be a good idea. But codes/regulations should be concerned with safety alone, not convenience. If you don't plan to have automation at a given switch, why should you be forced into additional work by the authorities! ...

It is done to avoid the temptation to use the ground wire as a neutral if a device that needs a neutral is later installed. That would be a safety issue.

 

[exranger06]

There's not really any additional work to have a neutral in the switch box. Instead of running a 14/2 cable, you just run a 14/3. It's the same amount of work. If you're running individual conductors in conduit, you don't need to run a neutral, the logic being that if someone wanted to install a switch that requires a neutral at a later date, they can just pull a neutral through the conduit at that time. But you can't do that with Romex, so you need to run 14/3 right from the start.

 

[pbon]

I just wired up 18 4’ LED wrap lights with 4 Eaton Cooper 0-10V dimmer switches. The dimmers do not use a neutral. I just connected all the neutrals together in the 4 gang box. So the neutrals are in the box but not connected to the switches. My 18 gauge dimmer wires are in there also. I had to use more expensive (than alarm or doorbell wire) 600V rated 18-2 to be allowed in the same box with the 600V rated insulated 14-2 romex.

I coukd have use regular switches with 14-2 in one box and put dimmers with cheaper 18-2 wire in another box.

 

[nadogail]

I learn at least one new thing a day. The requirement for neutrals in a switch leg is this mornings first example.

 

[ktorak]

I learn at least one new thing a day. The requirement for neutrals in a switch leg is this mornings first example.

There is an exception that allows this practice if there is room in the conduit to add the neutral or the install can be modified later (i.e. not behind a finished wall). I used this exception for my garage using FMC since I can just add it later if needed.

 

[PNWguy]

I will never forget getting a call from my cousin who was changing a light fixture.

"I turned off the light, unfastened the fixture, and got lown off the ladder. How can the wire still be hot?" I tried to not laugh as I explained it was legal to switch the hot.

 

[Eric29]

My brother told me he was knocked off of a ladder once because the neutral was switched in the light switch and the black remained hot. He turns the circuit off now, not just the switch.

I will never forget getting a call from my cousin who was changing a light fixture.

"I turned off the light, unfastened the fixture, and got lown off the ladder. How can the wire still be hot?" I tried to not laugh as I explained it was legal to switch the hot.

 

[teamextreme]

Switching the neutral is different than what we are discussing here and is NOT allowed and is a terrible idea for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That might be a good idea. But codes/regulations should be concerned with safety alone, not convenience. If you don't plan to have automation at a given switch, why should you be forced into additional work by the authorities!

lol thanks for the chuckle.

I guess youve never seen where someone used the EGC as a neutral so they could install a device that needed a neutral.

This makes it a safety issue.

This is one reason why neutrals at switches are mandated.

In the US you still have things like unsleeved, bare cpc's (earths) everywhere, which is a real, valid potential danger & this is what they worry about?! Sheesh...

:lol youre on a roll with the jokes this morning.

In the US theyre called GECs- grounding electrode conductors and there is no danger or shock potential with these being "unsleeved" since this wire is at the same potential as earth because it connects to the electrodes.

The electrical system in the US is a bit different than the system in the UK.

Might want to do some research before you spread more misinformation.

My brother told me he was knocked off of a ladder once because the neutral was switched in the light switch and the black remained hot. He turns the circuit off now, not just the switch.

A neutral should never be switched unless the hot conductors are simultaneously disconnected at the same time.

However, this is a different topic and are you sure it was a neutral and not a switch leg? Often times people forget to recolor the white wire in a switch leg.

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Here's a good one. Wonder what the inspectors would think of this?
Where I grew up...and it's wired this way today...the garage, built 1942, (barn we called it, it's 2 story cinder block) is about 250 ft. from main house. Along the path are four tall steel poles, about 3" set in concrete.
On top is one cloth covered copper wire, I'm guessing 10 gauge. So from power panel in basement a wire goes up to one upstairs bedroom a switch with wire out eves through insulator along top of poles. At barn end is a driven ground for neutral.
A few feet below wire on poles are for 30volt 60watt bulbs in series, switch at house, switch at barn. Each switch spdt.
So hot one side, neutral the other, lights common.
Shop in barn has a metal work bench with a big vice. As a kid drilling something with those old metal case drills if sparks flew off the bit you had to reverse plug. [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[Eric29]

I know. Thanks for making the point here though since someone might read this a year from now and think it's ok. If fact, the shock that my brother received was because of the switched neutral and because he didn't have the sense to switch the breaker off.

Switching the neutral is a different than what we are discussing here and is NOT allowed and is a terrible idea for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[Favguy]

lol thanks for the chuckle.

I guess youve never seen where someone used the EGC as a neutral so they could install a device that needed a neutral.

This makes it a safety issue.

This is one reason why neutrals at switches are mandated.



:lol youre on a roll with the jokes this morning.

In the US theyre called GECs- grounding electrode conductors and there is no danger or shock potential with these being "unsleeved" since this wire is at the same potential as earth because it connects to the electrodes.

The electrical system in the US is a bit different than the system in the UK.

I'm not stating having a neutral at a light switch isn't convenient, but you can't regulate against idiots using earths as neutrals, or any of the other moronic stuff some people do, where do you draw the line?

There are other valid reasons for sleeving earths, but you're right, I'm not up to speed with US systems, so I'll not comment further, don't want to be argumentative.

The point I was trying to make, and we suffer from it here in the UK too, was against bureaucratic regulation for the sake of it, some regs. do really improve things, making them safer, a lot are just issued by pen pushers who have never practiced in the real world.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Here's a good one. Wonder what the inspectors would think of this?
Where I grew up...and it's wired this way today...the garage, built 1942, (barn we called it, it's 2 story cinder block) is about 250 ft. from main house. Along the path are four tall steel poles, about 3" set in concrete.
On top is one cloth covered copper wire, I'm guessing 10 gauge. So from power panel in basement a wire goes up to one upstairs bedroom a switch with wire out eves through insulator along top of poles. At barn end is a driven ground for neutral.
A few feet below wire on poles are for 30volt 60watt bulbs in series, switch at house, switch at barn. Each switch spdt.
So hot one side, neutral the other, lights common.
Shop in barn has a metal work bench with a big vice. As a kid drilling something with those old metal case drills if sparks flew off the bit you had to reverse plug. [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

contrary to popular misconception, the earth is actually not that good at conducting electricity. A ground rod is not gonna work to return much neutral current.

That one is definitely for the darwin award nominee book.

I know. Thanks for making the point here though since someone might read this a year from now and think it's ok. If fact, the shock that my brother received was because of the switched neutral and because he didn't have the sense to switch the breaker off.

Where was the neutral switched at?

I'm not stating having a neutral at a light switch isn't convenient, but you can't regulate against idiots using earths as neutrals, or any of the other moronic stuff some people do, where do you draw the line?

There are other valid reasons for sleeving earths, but you're right, I'm not up to speed with US systems, so I'll not comment further, don't want to be argumentative.

The point I was trying to make, and we suffer from it here in the UK too, was against bureaucratic regulation for the sake of it, some regs. do really improve things, making them safer, a lot are just issued by pen pushers who have never practiced in the real world.

well NEC code in the US is not written by bureaucrats. It is written by code making panels @ the NFPA. The NFPA is a private organization (hence nfpa.org) and many codes are based on specific incidents. Many of the people on the code making panels are actual electricians who have indeed worked in the field.

Sounds like things are vastly different in the UK.

And once again you have shown your ignorance on the subject...

 

[Favguy]

Maybe things are vastly different...

I'll choose not to respond to your closing comment as maybe cultural differences mean you didn't mean to come across as rude as you actually did there.

I come here to share my garage build and see all the other great builds, not to argue, there's facebook for that...

 

[Sevenhills1952]

Here's how the four 30 volt series lights work from house to garage. Switch either end so both hot or neutral=no light. One has to be opposite the other to light.
You're correct about driven ground for neutral not that good. When someone was using lots of current is when we got our fishing worms.[emoji3]
As a retired electronic technician 43 years I wasn't amazed when things didn't work, just when/how they DID work![emoji38]
Years ago Dad (r.i.p.) was showing me how my grandfather had wired an outdoor floodlight.
He installed it in the early 1940s using LAMP CORD! It looked like 18 gauge, up in the attic,...and the insulation was gone, years ago fell off...just barely enough left every few feet to keep wires from touching. The floodlight still works![emoji38]

Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk

 

[Eric29]

He said that the hot wire went to the light and the neutral was interrupted and extended back to the switch and switched with the light switch. He believed that the previous homeowner was confused about how to install the light.

Where was the neutral switched at?