Wiring for 220v

[Rockaholic555]

I'm in the market for a welder and am deciding between the HH140 or the 180 line. Biggest difference being voltage requirements. Problem is, the circuit breaker at my house is full. Is wiring a sub-panel something I could reasonably do myself or is it cost effective? I'm not even sure I'd use to added capacity of a 220v welder but wanted to make sure before I make a purchase. Probably going to use the welder mostly for motorcycle work and the occasional car or around the house job. As you can tell I'm no electrician, so a little guidance would be useful.

 

[fflintstone]

you want the 240V welder, trust me.
with a 120v welder you will be unable to progress beyond welding sheet metal.
even with a 120V welder you will occationaly pop a breaker unless you have a dedicated circuit. and the panel do it right.

 

[dougmac]

If you can mange the 220 volt, it is the way to go. The difference between the 110v and the 220v wire feed welders is like the difference between a golf cart and a 3/4 ton pickup.

I have worked with both and highly recommend 220 volt welders.

 

[Junkman]

If you don't understand electricity, I strongly suggest that you keep your hands out of the electrical panel. One mistake, and you are on your a$$, and headed to the ER or the undertaker.... Just depends on what you touch.

 

[Rockaholic555]

I know a guy who can probably do it for me, I just didn't know how extensive adding a sub-panel really is.

 

[Ford12508]

If you don't know how extensive it is, you shouldn't do it. I have done it, and it is quite simple, but if you don't know how to do it right off the bat, I wouldn't attempt it without professional help.

Also, its 240V, not 220V.

 

[Rockaholic555]

I never said I was doing it myself, just didn't know how much work was involved and therefore how much time or cost it would take just to get a welder capable of 5/16 over 3/16.

 

[Ford12508]

Basically, if you can get the correct wire and run it yourself in your home, you will save a lot of money in labor.

 

[Rockaholic555]

Basically I'm trying to decide if I really need to 220v of power to handle some motorcycle fab work and repairs on my other vehicles. If I'm not going to need it I don't have to pay an electrician for the sub panel or pay more for the welder etc. Just didn't know what all was involved in it and am trying to plan things out.

 

[Rockaholic555]

Another option I've considered. Since my garage has an attached basement with the drier in it, couldn't I just run a 240v extension cord into the garage for the bigger welder? Kills the portability a bit but a Millermatic would fix that, lol.

 

[dougmac]

Another option I've considered. Since my garage has an attached basement with the drier in it, couldn't I just run a 240v extension cord into the garage for the bigger welder? Kills the portability a bit but a Millermatic would fix that, lol.

Yep ...the dryer plug would do the trick!

 

[Rockaholic555]

I did some more research and found that if the drier plug won't work (or bothers me after a while) tandem breakers could be used to free up enough space for a 220v circuit. That way the circuit for 220v is at least a dedicated one like it's supposed to be. Thanks for some of the input guys.

 

[...]

I did some more research and found that if the drier plug won't work (or bothers me after a while) tandem breakers could be used to free up enough space for a 220v circuit. That way the circuit for 220v is at least a dedicated one like it's supposed to be. Thanks for some of the input guys.

I just had the same issue. I swaped out a couple single for tandem breakers
and used the extra space created for the dedicated 240v for my small welder. Didn't take very long to get everything wired up (main panel is on the outside wall of my garage) and works just fine.

 

[Rockaholic555]

I'm really drooling over the Millermatic 211. Looks like using the tandems will be the way to go.

 

[mraredneck]

It's all about calculated load. If you are going to buy a new welder you will need to know the Amp's this will in turn tell you if the 30A circuit on your drier will work, you can load a circuit to 80 percent. This also comes into play with a sub-panel and space savers (tandems). For instance if you buy a welder that has an amp. draw of 18 @ 240V it wouldn’t work on a 20A breaker you would need a 25A 2pole breaker. I haven’t look at the welder you are thinking of buying one of the big things you need to know is Draw (Amperage), this determines breaker and wire size. Thing have changed a lil in the new code personally I would size my wire:

20A #12 wire
30A #10 wire
40A #8
50A 60A #6 you can cover 50A with #8 but bigger is better :^)
70A #6

 

[mraredneck]

Ok I have looked at a few specs for your welder its saying:
Input Power

•230 V, 25 A, 60 Hz, 1-Phase

So I would use a 40Amp 2 pole breaker with #8 wire should cover any load ramp and still covers the welder.

 

[BoilermakerNate]

Ok I have looked at a few specs for your welder its saying:
Input Power

•230 V, 25 A, 60 Hz, 1-Phase

So I would use a 40Amp 2 pole breaker with #8 wire should cover any load ramp and still covers the welder.

This would certainly work and I've seen many people with millermatic 211's use this exact setup. However, this may be a little conservative depending on your specific setup and what components and wires you use. I have a 211 and ran three #10 wires on a 30 amp 2-pole breaker and it works just fine at max capacity. However, I ran THHN wire in a dedicated conduit with no wiring terminal rated less than 75°C, increasing the rated ampacity of #10 wire to 35 amps.

Another thing to consider when wiring welders is duty cycle. You aren't going to be running the welder constantly. The 211 has a max duty cycle of 30% when running off a 240v circuit. There is very little potential there for substantial heat building up in the circuit, making it very unlikey you would ever trip a 30 amp breaker running full out.

Again, there is nothing wrong with the above suggestion, I just see the potential to save some money while still doing it in a "correct" manner that meets NEC.

 

[Rockaholic555]

Great things to consider. Last few comments have been very helpful.