hello everyone just found this forum the other day i'm working on my garage a 30 by 30 metal building the breaker box is already installed. ive been reading on wiring my welder. most things I've read say anything from 6awg 3 g with 50 amp breaker to 10 awg 2 g. with 30 amp breaker. most say red and black hot no common and use the bare ground wire on the center post and run it to the ground in the breaker box and not the common.my problem is my ground and common are the same bar I traced it back as far as the meter that way. is this right or do I need to change something I have 8-3-g 40 amp breaker. it will run about 45 ft from box over rafters and down to plug. can I run red and black hot white to center post in plug and at box red and black to 40 amp breaker and white to common/ground. the only other 220 thing on this is a binks 30 gallon air compressor. my welder is an older ac-180-s Lincoln I don't use it very much the compressor on the weekends but not for long periods of time. this stuff came out of my other garage that is also wired like this. it has worked fine. any help is greatly appreciated
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wiring for welder help
- Thread starter dey59
- Start date
rockwithjason
Well-known member
assuming that the meter is located at the house or another structure and the panel in the metal building is a subpanel from another panel, the ground and the neutral should be isolated. you should also have a ground rod at the metal building. the breaker and wire is based on the nameplate rating of the welder. assuming that it's the smaller 240v machine a 2p30a breaker and 10ga wire should do.
it goes from the meter which has a ground wire attached to a metal bar in the ground. from the meter it goes to a shut off with two big fuses then from shut off underground 40 forty feet to metal building where it connects to a large shut-off and then into breaker box.
rockwithjason
Well-known member
yup, isolate the ground and neutral and drive a rod.
so leave the common on the common bar and put in another bar just for the bare ground wires and run a bare wire from that out side to a rod in the ground. so what do I hook to my common on the 220 plug the white or the bare and where does that go in the box to the common or the ground .and can I still use that circuit for my compressor . thanks for the help.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Use the heavier gauge wire for a 50-amp circuit.
pattenp
Well-known member
240V welders and compressors do not use a neutral. The neutral is used to provide 120V. You should be using 2 conductors and equipment ground.
sberry
Banned
The ground does not go to a rod, it ends up back at main neutral. The 180 is designed for a 50A circuit,,, 10 wire or better.
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Many older subfeed installations had only three wires. They shared the neutral and ground from the main switch or panel. If this is more than 15 years or so old, that was probably the proper installation at the time. Not sure what year the code changed. Newer code requires four wires from the main to the sub panel, two hots, a neutral and a ground. In addition, the building has to have two ground rods, spaced at least 6 ft apart, connected by an un-interrupted wire from them to the ground bar in the subpanel.
If you have only three wires coming that 40 ft underground, then the neutral and ground are shared and you need to keep them connected together.
Charles
If you have only three wires coming that 40 ft underground, then the neutral and ground are shared and you need to keep them connected together.
Charles
coming from my meter I have 4 wires red , black. (both hot) white , and bare(common) at every connecting point the white and bare are connected together. the only place I have a bare wire going to a rod in the ground is at the meter and I can't see what its hooked to inside the meter
hidollartoys
Well-known member
Is the meter dedicated to the garage? If it is you are fine with grnd and N as they are.
pattenp
Well-known member
First off... the ground is not the common, the white neutral can be referred to as the common. Both the neutral and ground land together (bonded) in the panel of the first disconnect. The neutrals and grounds are isolated from each other in all downstream panels/devices from the first disconnect.
coming from my meter I have 4 wires red , black. (both hot) white , and bare(common) at every connecting point the white and bare are connected together. the only place I have a bare wire going to a rod in the ground is at the meter and I can't see what its hooked to inside the meter
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wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
hello everyone just found this forum the other day i'm working on my garage a 30 by 30 metal building the breaker box is already installed. ive been reading on wiring my welder. most things I've read say anything from 6awg 3 g with 50 amp breaker to 10 awg 2 g. with 30 amp breaker. most say red and black hot no common and use the bare ground wire on the center post and run it to the ground in the breaker box and not the common.my problem is my ground and common are the same bar I traced it back as far as the meter that way. is this right or do I need to change something I have 8-3-g 40 amp breaker. it will run about 45 ft from box over rafters and down to plug. can I run red and black hot white to center post in plug and at box red and black to 40 amp breaker and white to common/ground. the only other 220 thing on this is a binks 30 gallon air compressor. my welder is an older ac-180-s Lincoln I don't use it very much the compressor on the weekends but not for long periods of time. this stuff came out of my other garage that is also wired like this. it has worked fine. any help is greatly appreciated
First off, weders have special rules for wiring. Second, I would put a welder AND a compressor on the same circuit, UNLESS u wont be running at the same time.
You welder and compressor shouldnt need a neutral/common!
What model welder do u have?
What is the HP rating of the motor on the compressor?
it goes from the meter which has a ground wire attached to a metal bar in the ground. from the meter it goes to a shut off with two big fuses then from shut off underground 40 forty feet to metal building where it connects to a large shut-off and then into breaker box.
Since u have a disconnect at the meter and a 4 wire feed, then the subpanel in your detached garage should have an isolated/insulated neutral bar(s) AND a ground bar! A bare or insulated ground wire should go from the ground bar to at least 1 grounding electrode, depending on who did it and if it was inspected....I wont go into that for now.....
so leave the common on the common bar and put in another bar just for the bare ground wires and run a bare wire from that out side to a rod in the ground. so what do I hook to my common on the 220 plug the white or the bare and where does that go in the box to the common or the ground .and can I still use that circuit for my compressor . thanks for the help.
So do u have a ground rod at your garage? If not, u would need 2 rods connected to the ground bar in the subpanel. The neutrals(what your calling common), should be on an insulated bar, grounds should be on another bar. You should only need 2 hots and a ground for your machines. MAke sure to get a plug/recepticle that has 2 hots and a ground pin.
so my panel that has the bare ground hooked to the common is fine just hook my red and black as hot use the white to the third post and to the common/ground
Just so we're straight, which panel are u referring to here. Your main panel should have neutrals and grounds on the same bar. All subpanels should NOT.....
coming from my meter I have 4 wires red , black. (both hot) white , and bare(common) at every connecting point the white and bare are connected together. the only place I have a bare wire going to a rod in the ground is at the meter and I can't see what its hooked to inside the meter
This can be dangerous. As I said above, neutrals and grounds should only be connected at the main service panel.
Is the meter dedicated to the garage? If it is you are fine with grnd and N as they are.
Nope, he's not fine since he has a disconnect at the meter.
meter has a bare copper wire coming down from meter to a rod in the ground. from the meter to shut off with 2 fuses, three black wires. 2 hot, one with a white piece of tape. outta the shutoff with fuses 2 black wires from one fuse. 2 red wires from the other fuse. and 2 white wires and 2 bare wires connected to the post that has the black wire with white tape from meter. in the garage a shut off box with fuses red wire to fuse. black wire to fuse. white and bare to fuse. there is an unfused connection in this shut off but nothing on it at all. from the shut off in garage to breaker box right next to it. black- line 1. red line- 2. white and bare wire together on common bar. no ground bar but there is a place for one the other wires outta the first shut off go to a very small house. welder is a Lincoln ac-180-s older one. compressor is a binks 1.5 hp. I am going to run a separate line for the compressor and one for the welder thanks for all the help guys
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