My delta Unisaw runs on 240 volts and 20 amps. 3 hp. I just got a welder. It says max input is 24.8 amps when running at 200 amps. It has a 50 amp style plug. I do not need yet another 240 plug. I already have a direct 240 connection at the compressor (separate 40 amp breaker and 8gauge wire) and a plug at the table saw and none of these things including the welder will run at the same time (maybe compressor very rarely). Question is – is there any harm in wiring the table saw with a 50 amp plug – switching the breaker from 20 to 30 amps (currently has 10 gauge wire) and running the welder at the same plug as the table saw?
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Wiring for welder
- Thread starter Kyngfish
- Start date
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
what brand and model welder?
what size circuit does the manu. say to use?
what size circuit does the manu. say to use?
sberry
Banned
Did the saw come with a factory plug?
sberry
Banned
If you are using cable the welder needs 12 or better. Need to limit it to 30. 10 or better and it can have breaker from 30 to 50. The saw is limited to the factory plug if it comes that way in most cases, someone familiar with unisaw might be able to say if it is allowed on larger circuits.
My ideal is to run "yet another" , 10/30 for those welders. They are small, the 10 gives them all the help they can get. Listed minimum wire for them is 14 in pipe but the recepts are not listed for that tiny wire, no one thinks that is a great idea, a size up runs them a little better.
My ideal is to run "yet another" , 10/30 for those welders. They are small, the 10 gives them all the help they can get. Listed minimum wire for them is 14 in pipe but the recepts are not listed for that tiny wire, no one thinks that is a great idea, a size up runs them a little better.
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Bretny
Well-known member
Does a garage ever have to many 240v plugs?...no. this is why a sub/main should be in the garage if you have a choice and find your self useing different 240v tools.
sberry
Banned
I use mine at any time, don't want to fuss with plugging.
nadogail
Well-known member
My Welder, Table Saw, and Electric Space Heater all "time share" the same 208 volt 50 Amp circuit.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Question is – is there any harm in wiring the table saw with a 50 amp plug – switching the breaker from 20 to 30 amps (currently has 10 gauge wire) and running the welder at the same plug as the table saw?
If the wire is 10AWG, the answer is no, assuming that the welder manual calls for 30A and 10AWG.
This is one of my "personal pet peeves" ! Welder come with 50A plugs, irregardless of the amount of power they actually consume. It make sense for a production welding shop that has several machines that would only be use one at a time, but it is a pain for "home" shops !
pattenp
Well-known member
There is no NEC issue with a dedicated 30A circuit having a 50A outlet. I'd think the Unisaw with 3HP motor that the motor has it's own overload protection, so the breaker is primarily only providing short circuit protection for the saw. Personally I'd have no problem doing want you want to do as long as the saw motor has it's own overload protection.
sberry
Banned
I was thinking something like a unisaw is quality enough it might even be better than it needs to be. Its specialized enough, bit like an air comp that most people bought them would consider service to it as part of the package.
I got a 120V sitting here and have been using it for mufflers on the hoist, havnt unhooked my normal machine from its home in a while and have enough cord on it all the time that I can move it around. One of these days gonna add another 10 ft but its not really a problem as I am willing to do anything about it.
Whoops. sidelined. I know I asked but did the uni come with a ready made factory cord. 3 hp is likely designed for a 30 circuit. It could come 12 wire 30 end I believe. This is a really good argument about not using the minimum for a welder. A traditional 30 outlet would use 10, if using it for other than a welder the minimum wire is no good.
Whoops slid away again. If it comes 20 end factory then thats the circuit its sposed to be on and technically have to insure any wire ahead of other protection is suitable for short circuit and load calc. I would say 14 controls, its something I might consider with shared circuit. If you gonna run it on a shared it needs plug changed, 3 hp is legal on a 6/50 and since its a motor and not a welder would really need 10 wire.
As the man above me said,,, probably not a big deal but factory 240/20A is in some way similar to 120/20 in that same size wire ratings apply to short circuit and loading. Consider a power strip to some degree, added to a duplex, could feed thru 20 on one side and 15 to the other, would overload the breaker but can adjust the thermal on the breaker, say 15A but all the **** is still designed for 20A short circuit and really does rely on it for that and not that little thermal button.
You can run a lot of **** on a strip, a comp or chop saw, never trips those, will trip the panel breaker on starts.
I got a 120V sitting here and have been using it for mufflers on the hoist, havnt unhooked my normal machine from its home in a while and have enough cord on it all the time that I can move it around. One of these days gonna add another 10 ft but its not really a problem as I am willing to do anything about it.
Whoops. sidelined. I know I asked but did the uni come with a ready made factory cord. 3 hp is likely designed for a 30 circuit. It could come 12 wire 30 end I believe. This is a really good argument about not using the minimum for a welder. A traditional 30 outlet would use 10, if using it for other than a welder the minimum wire is no good.
Whoops slid away again. If it comes 20 end factory then thats the circuit its sposed to be on and technically have to insure any wire ahead of other protection is suitable for short circuit and load calc. I would say 14 controls, its something I might consider with shared circuit. If you gonna run it on a shared it needs plug changed, 3 hp is legal on a 6/50 and since its a motor and not a welder would really need 10 wire.
As the man above me said,,, probably not a big deal but factory 240/20A is in some way similar to 120/20 in that same size wire ratings apply to short circuit and loading. Consider a power strip to some degree, added to a duplex, could feed thru 20 on one side and 15 to the other, would overload the breaker but can adjust the thermal on the breaker, say 15A but all the **** is still designed for 20A short circuit and really does rely on it for that and not that little thermal button.
You can run a lot of **** on a strip, a comp or chop saw, never trips those, will trip the panel breaker on starts.
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sberry
Banned
My cousin has a wood shop. Got a bunch of 240 stuff. Seems to me he has some general 30, not sure how many or how many on the wire. It was a master job I think.
sberry
Banned
I am not sure all the 50A recepts are listed for 12? I see a new one the hardware stores carry, steel connections, small, looks like a puck. Cheaper than ever. They would be fine on these small machines.
The wiring concern is mainly with the saw, the welder can use most wire the saw could be connected to. The welder is listed for circuits 30 to 50 depending on the wire used. Can be used on a buzz box circuit, 10 cable 50 breaker.
The wiring concern is mainly with the saw, the welder can use most wire the saw could be connected to. The welder is listed for circuits 30 to 50 depending on the wire used. Can be used on a buzz box circuit, 10 cable 50 breaker.
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Somebody's probably going to say a 3HP table saw should be on a bigger circuit.
I made a 10' cheater cord for my welder so I didn't have to install any 6-50R's.
Once you get into 30Amp+ receptacles, I prefer laundry or range configurations. They're really inexpensive. These will also adapt to 120V, or even a subpanel on a cord if I want.
I made a 10' cheater cord for my welder so I didn't have to install any 6-50R's.
Once you get into 30Amp+ receptacles, I prefer laundry or range configurations. They're really inexpensive. These will also adapt to 120V, or even a subpanel on a cord if I want.
sberry
Banned
If the wire is 10AWG, the answer is no, assuming that the welder manual calls for 30A and 10AWG.
This is one of my "personal pet peeves" ! Welder come with 50A plugs, irregardless of the amount of power they actually consume. It make sense for a production welding shop that has several machines that would only be use one at a time, but it is a pain for "home" shops !
What is a pain about this? One circuit could work for every welder a guy has. Could run 2 of the smaller machines on the same circuit.
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sberry
Banned
The problem with sharing isn't the welder, it's the other stuff. I don't remember the rules to the heater, not many saws are rated to run 50A. Lots of stuff handle 30, 50 not so much.
sberry
Banned
If the wire is 10AWG, the answer is no, assuming that the welder manual calls for 30A and 10AWG.
This is one of my "personal pet peeves" ! Welder come with 50A plugs, irregardless of the amount of power they actually consume. It make sense for a production welding shop that has several machines that would only be use one at a time, but it is a pain for "home" shops !
It takes a while to get the mind around how they got this all figured. They do though, some of it is back and forth and covered in the other equipment, not just welders when we talk about sharing.
Make sure your wife doesn't turn on the Dryer while you're welding.....
Why? Resetting a breaker is easy.
Counterpoint... if you successfully welded up your project while drying clothes on the same circuit; then you likely proved out a faulty breaker you didn't know about.