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Wiring/Outlet Question

purplezr2

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Ok, So my garage has all the outlets wired with 12ga Nm-b. There are some circuits that have 4 to 5 outlets on them. Is it still ok to use 20amp duplex outlets? Want to make sure before I purchase 100 dollars worth of outlets.

https://goo.io/KKQVMl
 
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sberry

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You can do this but,,,, are you "special"? This is a personal thing and am sure we will get some jumping up and down but I can't remember ever replacing a cheap outlet. I have replaced old outlets but never a modern cheap 4$ a box one unless it took a direct hit with a hammer. There is no reason for 20A, I own hundreds of things plug in, not a single one has a 20A end. Modern wire welder comes 15.
Main use for a 20A end is on the equipment in instautional to KEEP IT FROM being plugged in to general use circuits.
 
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Norcal

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Why waste money on 20A receptacles when they are not needed, the guts of a 15A is the same as a 20A & the 15A receptacles are 20A feed through, spend the money on some nice tools or other upgrades to the shop.
 

matt_i

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Save your money on the downstream outlets, you are going to need it for the TR-GFCI outlets to control the others.
 

MeentSS02

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Many years ago I installed 4 additional 20-amp circuits in my garage. I installed 20-amp GFCIs along with many 20-amp regular outlets. I thought it was the "right" way to do it at the time, so I just did it. I can't say that I regret it at all, and on the off chance that I ever do run into an actual 20-amp plug end, I'll have lots of options for places to plug it in. That said, I have yet to see one. I do have a Master Blaster vehicle dryer that pulls upwards of 17-18 amps going full bore, but it just has a normal 15A plug end on it. As long as the 15-amp outlets are rated for 20-amp pass through (and I'm pretty sure they all are), you should be able to just run 15-amp outlets on a 20-amp circuit and call it a day. And I'm assuming since it was wired with 12 gauge wire, that it is actually a 20-amp circuit.

I've wasted a lot of money in my life on various things. This was probably another instance of that, but definitely not at the top of the list. Do what makes sense to you and move on.
 

teamextreme

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Buy a quality spec grade or equivalent, higher quality 15A receptacle and you'll be just as well off as buying 20A. No need for 20A outlets as others have said.
 

Zeke

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Just to be sure I'm getting a better receptacle I will buy 20A ones for areas with potential high inrush voltage. Those 10 or 20 pack 'builders specials' don't cut it with me. The good ones are less than 3 bucks.

Also, I dislike decora style but the mass of the receptacle is impressive considering how many conventional duplex recp's I have run across with one or more parts cracked or missing. The reason I dislike decoras is because of the switches. Just like 3-way switches, the common single pole is not marked for on/off. Last time I installed decora SP switches I put them in so that the stamped printing was right side up. All of them operated upside down.

Lastly, you think 20 amp recp's are expensive, start buying decora. But I digress.
 

finn

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I’ Used literally dozens of ten pack boxes of the commonly available builders grade LeGrande outlets and switches in a couple of houses, garages, and shops with no issues, even on the heavily used outlets.

I’m traveling in the South now, and the last three hotels I have stayed at all have several floppy outlets. Don’t know what brand they are. The sloppy outlets aren’t just the readily accessible, and most frequently used ones, either.

I would suspect the same contractor wires many of these chain hotels and uses some other, inferior brand of device. The buildings don’t seem that old, either.
 

sberry

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The only reason I pick on this thread is because most of it is pure speculation. I got to wonder,,, is your inrush more than mine, is your service more severe or heavy duty? I have put the 40 centers on the welding bench where they saw 1000's of cycles, on chop saw with 40A inrush and near 30 load, on table saw and on 1 hp motor to the paint fan and another 1000 besides the hundreds I own for customer types.
Why aint they broke? This assumption, along with many of the things I thought about all this have changed over the years as I listened to the same logic when I started, as time went and I got actual experience found out all the hearsay wasn't so accurate and "someone told me" was not always a great authority on all of it.
I would have quit using 9it had it not performed and I have a pretty good sized pool under varying circumstances to measure it against. A little like the wrench and socket debate. The guy who changes oil on a 16 fusion and works on his hobby Jeep cant compare to a career in agriculture and oil field as to the real longevity of tools, not always my own experience but seeing others.
A guy on a service truck in a particular trade may see a few more, he may also have personal preference or even jump to some of the same conclusion but the failure/problem rate of the economical recept is pretty low, this is something the mfg doesn't want warranty or recall on in a big way.
They also in some cases put the exact same **** in the box with a different style or even label,,, hence the various warranty on the water heaters. Does anyone want to track all the little **** which costs a few cents to shave margins when several dollars are made for slapping a different sticker on?

Do we figure they track all the steel in a napa wrench vs a Cman, the various tips on screwdrivers or change the contact metal in every recept? They don't have a better mounting screw on a 3$ one than they do 50 center.
the 15 and the 20 use the same metal. Its pretty much purely speculation that one is better than the other.
 

sberry

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They are only 3$,,, while it wouldn't have been a deal breaker it would have cost me an extra grand in my own stuff and the broke cracked stuff I found were in older stuff, USA made way back in the day, same with failed switches. Most of the cracked cases from those and ground down around the ground pin. I cant recall ever replacing a switch I replaced or even an outlet for that matter and maybe I have but none from the cheap **** in the last couple decades at least.
The use of some of it was simply to try it and see what happened. When the first box didn't go up in smoke I try another. Same with common combo wrenches, tried a few, they worked, tried some more they worked and when they survived beating on them with 20oz nail hammer or 4# out in the sticks I figured out that no one was breaking them by hand and busting knuckles. A myth widely supported by people who didn't even use them.
 

Norcal

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Buy good quality 15A spec grade receptacles and it will serve you well, if you want to spend more then low end hospital grade receptacles can be bought for 6-7 bucks each.
 

theoldwizard1

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Why waste money on 20A receptacles when they are not needed, the guts of a 15A is the same as a 20A ...
I will agree IF you are buying the "good" quality 15A outlets not the less than $1 ones !

In my entire life I have only ONCE encountered a device with a 20A plug. It was a 1990s engineering computer "workstation".
 
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purplezr2

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Honestly, like the 20 amp cause they have the plate to capture the wire vs having to make loops, install faster...... Time is money and I'm not a trade electrician that can make perfect loops in 1/4 seconds.
 
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rlitman

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... I installed 20-amp GFCIs along with many 20-amp regular outlets. I thought it was the "right" way to do it at the time, so I just did it. I can't say that I regret it at all, and on the off chance that I ever do run into an actual 20-amp plug end, I'll have lots of options for places to plug it in. That said, I have yet to see one...
As long as the 15-amp outlets are rated for 20-amp pass through (and I'm pretty sure they all are), you should be able to just run 15-amp outlets on a 20-amp circuit and call it a day...

I mentioned this recently in another thread. I only recall seeing ONE NEMA 5-20 plug in my life, and that was on an industrial copier. It came with that plug, because it really shouldn't have been plugged into a 15A circuit. But unless you have something with a 20A plug on it, the 15A outlets are just fine.

As for the capacity, the internals of a 15A outlet are the same as a 30A outlet! Yep, everything is the same size (screws, blade thicknesses, etc.) all the way up to 30A, so just having that extra notch on the face-plate buys you nothing more.

Just to be sure I'm getting a better receptacle I will buy 20A ones for areas with potential high inrush voltage. Those 10 or 20 pack 'builders specials' don't cut it with me. The good ones are less than 3 bucks...

I guess. $3 can get you a nice spec grade receptacle, and I won't say that's a bad thing to spend your money on. In the past, I used to insist on Hubbell outlets, because they had better plug retention and higher quality internals. Nowadays, I buy the 50 cent stuff. 30 years ago, the builder basic outlets were total ****, but now, the cheapest stuff is about as good as the spec grade used to be (though spec grade usually buys you the back screw clamps, which I really like). UL keeps forcing improvements, and I'm not complaining.

The only reason I pick on this thread is because most of it is pure speculation. I got to wonder,,, is your inrush more than mine, is your service more severe or heavy duty?...

They don't have a better mounting screw on a 3$ one than they do 50 center.
the 15 and the 20 use the same metal. Its pretty much purely speculation that one is better than the other.

Agreed. The only exception in the current generation of outlets that comes to mind is the Weather Resistant variety that has plated contacts. But if you don't have a corrosive environment, even that doesn't buy you much.
 

rlitman

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Buy good quality 15A spec grade receptacles and it will serve you well, if you want to spend more then low end hospital grade receptacles can be bought for 6-7 bucks each.

Hospital grade (for those who don't know) just has a tighter retention on the ground pin. Nothing else. However some have Isolated Grounds, and those should only be used if you have an isolated ground system.

Honestly, like the 20 amp cause they have the plate to capture the wire vs having to make loops, install faster...... Time is money and I'm not a trade electrician that can make perfect loops in 1/4 seconds.

The back wire clamps are great, and they're the bees knees when you don't want to bother with pigtails! But I have no aversion to making loops.
 

Bert_

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I don't mind using a spec grade receptacle in a shop that see's quite a bit of use. I usually go with p&s cr-15's, they run about $1.50.

20A is a waste of money. The only thing I have ever used with a 20A end is a greenlee PVC hot box, but the first thing I did to that was twist the prong so I could use my regular extension cords.
 

Norcal

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Newer 15A recp's have the cinch plate since backstabs were outlawed.

Backstabbing has not been outlawed just can’t use 12 AWG anymore, 14 AWG only now or wrap around the screws now, the pressure plates are only offered on higher end Spec Grade & Hospital Grade devices.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Ok, So my garage has all the outlets wired with 12ga Nm-b. There are some circuits that have 4 to 5 outlets on them. Is it still ok to use 20amp duplex outlets? Want to make sure before I purchase 100 dollars worth of outlets.

Outlet in question

If the breaker is 20a then yes you can use 5-20 receptacles.

But do you have any 5-20p corded tools?

If not, then 5-20 receptacles are a waste of money.

Honestly, like the 20 amp cause they have the plate to capture the wire vs having to make loops, install faster...... Time is money and I'm not a trade electrician that can make perfect loops in 1/4 seconds.

umm just an FYI, you can get 5-15 receptacles that have back-wire clamps. no need to spend extra on 5-20 receptacles if thats the only reason you want the 20a receptacles...

Newer 15A recp's have the cinch plate since backstabs were outlawed.

This is false. "push-wire" aka backstabbed receptacles, have not been "outlawed" whatever that means...

They are still code compliant and sold everywhere i shop including the big box stores....
 

sberry

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I been wiring around screws so long it's automatic. If I am doing the design I am using a deep or 4x4 box where there is splicing so pigtails are not a problem that is also on auto pilot. I use a long strip, lay the wires along side each other and can get a wire nut really tight especially with wing nut. Throw any of those **** Scotch vynal wire nuts away.
 

rburke65

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I think if they were outlawed the mfg. wouldn’t be making the outlets with the push lock features in the recepticals.
 

Norcal

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I think if they were outlawed the mfg. wouldn’t be making the outlets with the push lock features in the recepticals.

Bingo! As soon as the listing is removed the manufacturers would quit producing them & redesign them.
 

nsula_country

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We did use 20 amp receptacles in our kitchen when building our house. But only because they were all I could find in grey at the time. To match backsplash tile per the Project Manager (beautiful wife).

Don't remember the brand, but the TR shutters on them are much smoother than the contractor packs of receptacles used elsewhere in the house.

CT
 

Norcal

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We did use 20 amp receptacles in our kitchen when building our house. But only because they were all I could find in grey at the time. To match backsplash tile per the Project Manager (beautiful wife).

Don't remember the brand, but the TR shutters on them are much smoother than the contractor packs of receptacles used elsewhere in the house.

CT

There is a difference between getting 20A because that was what was available, and just having to get 20A, the internals are exactly the same in a 15 or 20 ampere device of the same grade & manufacturer, I used 20A in my shop because I had a bunch of them, and in the 26 years since it was built, have not needed to use them as a 20A.
 

theoldwizard1

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Slightly off subject. The originally spec'd outlets were "tamper resistant". When are tamper resistant outlets NOT REQUIRED ?
 

pjmariner

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Honestly, like the 20 amp cause they have the plate to capture the wire vs having to make loops, install faster...... Time is money and I'm not a trade electrician that can make perfect loops in 1/4 seconds.

For what you save in outlets using 15amp, you can get a quality wire stripper with loop hole, just strip end, put it in loop hole and roll a perfect loop every time. Not to mention how well they strip wires, etc. A must have tool.

Here is first tutorial I could find, this is not something that take years to master (take it from this non-master), after a few wires you too can make a perfect loop in 1/4 second.
https://toolguyd.com/shop-tip-wire-stripper-loop-holes-and-how-to-use-them/
 
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