Wiring question

[rkantor]

So, I'm getting towards the part where its time to wire the new garage. I have a 1.5 story 2 car 24x24, with a 16 inch stem wall. My plan is to supply a 100 amp panel with 2-2-2-4 AL direct burial.(approved by inspector) I was wondering would it be better to put the receptacles on the stem wall with conduit and metal boxes, or in the walls like a typical house. I do plan on running power upstairs, as it is part man cave. I also plan on running at least one 220 outlet if not more for welder and A/C.

 

[fefarms]

I would not mount surface mounted boxes down low on the stemwall.
At 24x24 you don't have a lot of extra space, and surface boxes are likely to get in the way or be subject to damage. Boxes set into the wall like a normal house will be less intrusive. Consider setting the boxes at 50 inches above the floor so you can access the receptacles even if there is "stuff" leaned up against the wall.

Plus surface mounted boxes and conduit, especially mounted on concrete, is a lot of extra work compared to pulling Romex through bored holes in wood studs.

 

[JoeMopar]

Much neater looking job recessed into walls IMO. Also follow height as mentioned above.

 

[rquackenbush]

Agreed, with above. Plus it will be a big less expensive!

 

[Aceman]

My plan is to supply a 100 amp panel with 2-2-2-4 AL direct burial.(approved by inspector)

#2 AL for 100 amps? Inspector Approved?
Direct burial?

 

[rkantor]

You guys are throwing some great ideas, glad to have some reinforcing thoughts on wall mount. 2-2-2-4 quad ....I checked with him to be sure. I could just put a 90 amp on the house side for piece of mind though. I also plan on doing conduit with it underground. The inspector also said I could finish the entire garage (inside studs open) including siding before inspection. ....I have found out the hard way what happens when you dig where there happens to be a wire. Oops.
I have never done much with house wiring other than receptacle and switch swaps. I got a do it yourself book and a ton of researching. Any recommendations on circuit layout? My plan was to put plugs in the ceilings for lights and the eventual garage door openers. Also, 2 plugs on each wall downstairs with a quad by the bench in the back. Upstairs plugs in the ceiling and maybe 2 plugs per wall. A 220 circuit for welder and maybe a 110 dedicated for wire welder. And 2 or 3 outside lights of course.

 

[Norcal]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkantor
My plan is to supply a 100 amp panel with 2-2-2-4 AL direct burial.(approved by inspector)

#2 AL for 100 amps? Inspector Approved?
Direct burial?

#2 AWG aluminum is not suitable for 100A, & a garage does not meet the criteria allowing undersizing the wiring. Just because a inspector OK's something does not make it right, in the OP's case just means the inspector is illiterate.

 

[Grogan14]

#2 AL is the norm around here for residential 100a service and feeder conductors.

 

[rkantor]

The issue I believe is load diversity on a residential structure and probably no need to re hash that discussion, as it has been done several times I have seen. Hate to see flaming. I will either use a 90 amp breaker or go up in size on wire most likely. I don't think I would have too much voltage drop from what I have seen based on a 100 foot run.....

 

[Norcal]

#2 AL is the norm around here for residential 100a service and feeder conductors.

A feeder to a garage does not comply with the code section copied from the 2008 NEC below (310.15)

(6) 120/240-Volt, 3-Wire, Single-Phase Dwelling Services
and Feeders. For individual dwelling units of onefamily,
two-family, and multifamily dwellings, conductors,
as listed in Table 310.15(B)(6), shall be permitted as
120/240-volt, 3-wire, single-phase service-entrance conductors,
service-lateral conductors, and feeder conductors
that serve as the main power feeder to each dwelling unit
and are installed in raceway or cable with or without an
equipment grounding conductor. For application of this section,
the main power feeder shall be the feeder between the main disconnect and the panelboard that supplies, either by
branch circuits or by feeders, or both, all loads that are part
or associated with the dwelling unit. The feeder conductors
to a dwelling unit shall not be required to have an allowable
ampacity rating greater than their service-entrance conductors.
The grounded conductor shall be permitted to be
smaller than the ungrounded conductors, provided the requirements
of 215.2, 220.61, and 230.42 are met.

 

[oleguy]

boxes in a garage can't be below 18" because they are a classified location.any time you have flammibles stored it is a classified location.gas water heaters,gas dryiers and gasoline in your gas tank for your vehicles.that is also why gas water heaters are at least 18" off the floor.

 

[Boyd Who]

As far as circuit layout goes...in my 20 x 22 I have four 120V 20A outlets on each wall, one in the ceiling (15A), one for my small compressor(20A), and one outside by the OH door. Each wall is on it's own breaker, as is the ceiling plug, compressor plug, and outdoor plug. I have 3 240V welder outlets on their own breakers plus a 240V box for a future electric heater. All of the outlets are 52" off the floor for convenience. You can never have too many outlets in a shop!

 

[creativecars]

With a bench height at 36" I put all my outlets at 42" so it is convenient while working at the bench and looks uniform around the room. It is also a good time to plumb for water and air if you are going to have a wash sink or put a compressor in.

 

[srmofo]

Code for receptacles in my area are 48". Something about fumes exploding. Keeps them above work benches and also keeps me from bending over.

 

[reddog289]

If I had the time, money, and knew for a fact I would be in my garage for awhile,I would redo the drywall in my garage and raise the height of the outlets to at least the middle of the wall. I generally keep the area under my workbenches for storage.With that in mind, I plan on wiring my single bay portion of my garage with the outlets at least that height.
As for aluminum wire , Although I am not an electrician I don't see that much of it if any here in Mich.

 

[rkantor]

Great ideas guys, thanks. Hopefully once this rain is gone I can get to finishing the insulated sheathing and get to the vinyl and electrical.

 

[rkantor]

Here are some pics of the subpanel I bought. It has 5 20 amp breakers with it. I have a double pole 50 for the lincoln 225. The inspector said the breaker at the house acts as a main, so I don't have to worry about the 6 circuit rule.

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[rkantor]

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[Rosco]

might be too late for my post, but I would seriously consider going to a larger box. I ended up running a separate meter and 200 panel to my garage......cost more but I ended up needing it when finishing the bonus room on top of all the extra's for the garage. As posted many times here.....you never know what the future holds.

Also consider a couple of outlets in the cieling for drop down lights on a reel. Sure makes it nice knowing exactly where the light is!

Very nice building!

 

[MrMark]

Here are some pics of the subpanel I bought. It has 5 20 amp breakers with it. I have a double pole 50 for the lincoln 225. The inspector said the breaker at the house acts as a main, so I don't have to worry about the 6 circuit rule.

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This is detached from the pictures. I wouldn't give a care what the inspector said. How are you goning to turn the power off in an emergency or for service? Walk back to the house?

 

[rkantor]

Well, I had actually sort of planned to do the garage with 6 circuits, but inspector said I didn't have to. Six should be plenty. And I have one drop down cord reel so far. I was going to use outlets in the ceiling for lights and the reels.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Your inspector is not very familiar with the NEC.

(Very) Remote possibility that it could cause insurance problems in the future in event of a fire/accident. Remember, the inspector is not under any legal obligation to provide you with good advise. You as the installer are expected to know the code and comply with it. Inspector probably could not be held at fault if you were to finger him later after an accident/incident/fire. "He told me so!" is not a good defense.

Charles

 

[MrMark]

You shouldn't confuse code (or some inspector's interpretation of it, ugh) with what you should do. Code is a bare minimum. Whether your inspector requires a shut off or not, you should put one in for convenience and safety. You will thank yourself later. There is no economy in doing the minimum or striving for the minimum.

 

[rkantor]

Yea, it's only like 20 more bucks for the panel that does have a main.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_101595-8236...s_4294821907_4294937087_?Ns=p_product_price|0

 

[MrMark]

That's cheap!

 

[indyjps]

Wired my building recently - 30 x 44. I ran the outlets at 4 foot height, set the boxes loose, ran the wire, sheeted my first row, tied the boxes down tight, much easier to sheet that way, notch your 2nd row of sheeting and set in place.

With your 16" stem wall dont know if this will work. I'd definately recess them in the wall, If youre allowed to run romex in the wall and not enclosed in conduit it will simplify the installation. I dont do conduit enough to be fast or good with it.

Consider 20 amp circuits for the garage area if you have enough capacity. Plan out your compressor and other large tools, where you want them, also put your weld area close to your box if you can, long runs get expensive. Plan ahead for outside lights, garage door opener. In your man cave area plan where your electronics / tv / phone line for internet will go, you want more outlets in the entertainment area. surround sound is nice, run speaker cables for the garage and outside if you plan on cookouts. an outside outlet comes in handy. Hope that helps.

 

[rkantor]

Yea thanks! I bought the 20 amp plugs for downstairs and running 12/2 Romex with ground throughout With each circuit being led by a GFCI receptacle. Trying to figure out how to do the outside lights now. The 220 plug for the welder is going right under the panel so it shouldn't need much wire.