Wiring romex and staple size/type

[tapout187]

Hey guys I’m just stock piling all my supplies to have ready for wiring my pole barn in the next couple weeks. I already have a few rolls of 12/2 and 14/2 for outlets and lighting and bought the 1/2” staples for that, the type with the two nails and the nylon strap. For my welder outlets I just have the 6-50r outlets but not the wire yet. I’m planning on getting 8/2 romex for all the welder outlets so these circuits will all be on 40 amp breakers. Do you guys disagree with running 8 wire for welders (HTP mig 200 and everlast 250ex tig)? I like a little overkill as long as it doesn’t make things a pain. Sorry got off topic, if I use the 8/2 what size/type staples do I use with that? Can I use the same two nail type but the 3/4” ones? The package said they were for 14/3,12/3,10/3. Thanks guys!!!

 

[steves_001]

They make other sizes for the larger wire. Similar to:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Briscon-1-3-8-in-x-13-16-in-Plastic-Insulated-Staples-for-Cable-Gray-10-Pack-SN-300-IB-10/202018408

 

[tapout187]

I was actually just in Home Depot before I made this post. I was looking at the 13/16 ones you linked. I had those in my hand (I kinda like the two nail type better for some reason) and the guy in the store told me they were too big and tried giving me the 9/16 ones. I don’t know I got confused and annoyed from the over thinking and just went home lol

 

[sberry]

Use a 50 breaker though. The reason and advantage of using a heavy wire is to be able to feed 50A machines.

 

[tapout187]

Use a 50 amp breaker and still run the 8/2? I know welder circuits have different rules I just want to confirm what I should definitely use. Appreciate your input thanks!

 

[Jim greengo]

I dont waste money on the staples with the plastic and the little finish nails.
Regular old metal 1/2" staples are easier to use and cheaper.

 

[sberry]

You could use a 10. Buzzers can use 10, new inverter sticks can use it, basically the only factory cord and plug units that need bigger is heavy 250 migs. The 8 you are planning on is super, cant overheat it or even heat it up and it makes for solid connections.

 

[sberry]

The whole reason for 8 to run a 50A machine. Many of the new machines run on 30A service.

 

[tapout187]

Awesome thanks so I’ll still go with the 8 wire but use 50 amp breakers for the welder circuits. I was figuring I’d put two of the 6-50r outlets on each circuit. I’m planning 6 welder outlets through garage so three separate 50 amp breakers. Thanks again

 

[Bert_]

I dont waste money on the staples with the plastic and the little finish nails.
Regular old metal 1/2" staples are easier to use and cheaper.

I think that is pretty regional. Nobody even carries the metal staples around here.

 

[tapout187]

I’m probably going to use the stackers where there will be multiple wires ran together, I’m pretty **** so I’ll make it look good. I just wasn’t sure if the 3/4” two nail staples were ok with 8/2, the package says 14/3,12/3,10/3, but I held one of them to a pice of 8/2 and looked like it fit nice and I couldn’t really find a staple that specifically had regular 8/2 listed and not 8/2 service entry as the 13/16” staples had listed and they just seemed huge to me.

 

[sberry]

If using cable and more than one outlet then really should be 40. If the 8 were spiced to 6 it could be legal or if this was thhn in pipe.

 

[Jim greengo]

I think that is pretty regional. Nobody even carries the metal staples around here.

All of the local box stores around here carry them anyway,they also carry the version with the brad nails and plastic bridge.
I used those plastic ones years ago on a job,I'm pretty sure most of the package ended up in the nearest dumpster.

 

[tapout187]

If using cable and more than one outlet then really should be 40. If the 8 were spiced to 6 it could be legal or if this was thhn in pipe.

Oh ok it is definitely going to be romex. So my plan is having six different outlets spread around the shop. Just so you know what my whole setup is, i have 100 amp breaker in my house wired to #1 copper xhhw to a 200 amp main breaker panel (42 space, same panel as in the house). I should obviously have plenty of breaker space in garage panel. How would you execute my welder outlets? Use #8 and have each outlet on separate 50 amp breaker? Or use #6? I was thinking staying away from 6 just because of size and workability. I mean with my two welders I’m sure I could get away with using 10/2 on 30 amp breakers. I just wanted to set my garage up nice and not have regrets later. I don’t mind spending the extra money as long as it’s spent wisely. I really appreciate everyone’s help I’ve learned a ton from this forum over the years!!

 

[sberry]

Ok, did this earlier but phone is wonky.
Do you need 50A in every corner? If its using wire derated for a welding circuit it needs to be on its own breaker. I have homes for a couple big machines and have heavy 50 for them, everything else is 10/50 or 10/30. I just did one for a neighbor with 2 recepts, a 12 to each and both landed on the 30 in the panel. If both were used it would trip a breaker but not overheat the wire.
My ideal is to have means to add or tailor circuits as needed vs everything rocked tightly. You can leave means near the panel, no point in having lots of extra spaces if you cant get at them, have seen it a lot. Great6 a guy has a 100A panel in the garage but its got one 15A breaker and drywall everywhere.

 

[sberry]

What machines do you have?

 

[tapout187]

What machines do you have?

HTP mig200 and everlast 250ex tig

 

[sberry]

I might have looked at manuals for them but have enough trouble remembering red and blue. If they have wire guide, they sposed to, but if it lists minimum there is a notation, as to method then its a wire size larger for cable.

 

[tapout187]

For the everlast tig the max rated input amps is 32. And the HTP mig input amps is 30.
So maybe if I still use 8/2 wire but just run dedicated circuits and 40 or 50 amp breakers you think?

 

[sberry]

Make 1 number 8 and put 50 on it. If you got lotso spaces the additional cost is a breaker and maybe only some wire depending on design. Homelime breaker 8 or 9$, not all that much more than another Jbox and some connectors and nothing is as good as a wire from breaker to recept. Buy a scrap of 8 if you want but I would buy a roll of 10 and run wild, run a wire to each, might even skip the a all together if those are your big machines. 32 for 10 on welding is fine, they allow 48 at 20%,, 32 is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy down from that. Could use 30 to 50 breakers, wanna use a 40 that's fine too.

 

[sberry]

You could save enough on wire to give each a happy breaker. Do it all simple from 1 bigger full roll at the right cost. I bet the tig can use 12 in pipe. How much is 10/2? Around 100% off the shelf for 250 ft.
One thing is, there are millions of "5" hp comps running dandy from 10/30. I got a lot of **** but really don't use or even own anything except a 300 tig that would overheat a 10 wire.
don't have electric range. Biggest motors 5.
I rarely tig so I could do without the 300 and if I did do more I would buy a modern machine. If air comps were falling out of the trees I might buy used if I was inclined. I could make it in most cases with a HF 2 stagy deal, they might squeeze by on a 10 cable? The code is what it is but no one ever burned the shack down on one of those with a 30 or 40 on a 10 wire.

 

[tapout187]

Thanks a lot for the response I think I’m gonna end up going dedicated breaker for each outlet, I see where if I daisy chained two welder outlets together on an 8 wirenit could potentially be a problem (likely won’t have two machines welding at same time but why not have it right for the small cost). Things like this are why I wanted the 42 space panel. It’s a square d qo. For my compressor circuit I’m probably gonna just run 8 wire on a 30 in case I ever go bigger I can just swap out the breaker easily enough. I think I’m on track to what I need to do, I hope lol thanks a lot

 

[sberry]

I removed 2 outlets and added 1 in my last reman, added it to the hoist, shared the wire. Removed 2 others I never use. Change one at its home during a minor move. I have one at a work center 30A for a feeder at its home and will never,,,,, need to plug a 300 tig on it or any other machine requires larger service, its what it is. I got 5 other recepts at the panel where its home for the machines.
I recept across the building in case I would take a machine to it, 50A, works for any at a sub.
I had a whole bunch of 10. I had 6. The 50 I have 10 on are about 3 ft long, one plasma and one dc stick. So, instead of investing in welding everywhere run 1 to an area you may weld at, either machine and tailor their home ports with circuits ideal, possibly short? So convenient that they are used at the bench, left plugged in, no sharing. Add 1 for a plasma if you don't have.
I think first pic is relatively new layout, it still changes a little, not so much but fix it some in a couple steps over 20 yrs to streamline it a bit.
It one point removed 2 carts and displaced the junk on top of the synch and set the machines up on it. I got a long spool gun with the Hobart. It is a good use for the tig was taking up space.
Pic 3 and 4 you can see a little Linc on a cart wheels out and around the bench, its really the go to machine. I gottem all but that, a few sticks on occasion and a 250 if I have to.

 

[sberry]

I rarely use the big wire feed, I can pull it from out of the way to the bench when I do and the stick is floor grounded to bench and a stinger on it with about 25 ft. Can work around the bench with it. Got another 60 ft connected to it all for outdoor.
Anyway,,, the point of it is everything plugged in ready to flip the switch and can moce as easy as unplugging. Most of it never moves, I move 1 machine once in a while and most of that could be done about as easy with a cord especially in a shop any smaller than mine.
Put most of the recepts where you need, a convenience in a place you might need 1 and even a section of cord a guy might leave on a machine in some cases.
I do have a longer number 10 cord but a couple number 10 about 20 ft long is what I use. I would like about 5 more ft on 1 to make it perfect. When I moved in the first welder stuff was chunks of cord and cable wired on the box with outlet on them.

 

[sberry]

Actually 2 on 8 wouldn't be a problem.

 

[rburke65]

Half inch or 3/4”.....you’ll be fine