Wiring situation - rewiring. Need advices

[katit]

I have 50yo house. It's brick ranch with plaster. Full unfinished basement and attic access.

Now to my problem.
All circuits in a house 15a. What makes it worse - I have
a. Bedroom outles
b. Office outlet
c. Family outlet
all on one branch. There is some lighting there as well.

I have Plasma tv and laser printer. We use space heaters as well. So, you get a picture

I want to re-wire either single room (office to begin with) but not sure how to split circuit properly.

If i have part of all branch coming through the box and I want to use new branch in a same box how do I go about it?

How do electricians handle re-wiring of houses?

 

[Dan0myte]

How do electricians handle re-wiring of houses?

That's why they get paid the big bucks. It's not easy.

 

[katit]

Nothing is easy (when big buck involved )
But I like to know

 

[hidollartoys]

The first thing I do is try to identify the way the circuits are currently wired. I do this by determining what areas are wired to what breakers or fuses. I then try to seperate the individual fixtures, switches and recepts so to determine how the individual branch circuit is being fed from the panel. This will help determine how to split the load and what new wiring is required.

For the actual installation of the wire and boxes...... it depends on a multitude of issues in any particular situation and what tools you have at your disposal. Unfinished basement and open attic are ideal for rewiring. Plaster walls not so much.

 

[katit]

So, the plan will be
1. Identify each circuit. It's amazing how this large panel almost 100% full and yet I have those issues. Ideally I need to replace whole branches.

2. Think how they can be replaced.


I was thinking about throwing 1 20A circuit at those strategic outlets. But I still have issue with existing wiring at those spots.

 

[Friartuck]

Some of the code requirements actually make sense. One of them is that overhead lighting are not on the same circuit as outlets. Reason: If the appliance connected to an outlet tripped the breaker, then the overhead light would still work. Goes to safety when exiting a room in the dark. Fortunately this is pretty easy to meet as most overhead lighting doesn't draw that much power and is usually at fixed amounts. You should be able to achieve consolidating quite a few lights on that circuit, freeing up circuit breaker capacity for outlet circuits.
Another item is junction boxes must be accessible. So in the basement, junction boxes can be included in floor joists, but if you are planning on boxes in the attic, avoid burying them in the joists with insulation around them or worse, under attic flooring.
Think of what you do today as if when you sell the home and it has to be inspected & critiqued. Might as well do it right now.

 

[mrb]

really, this is one of those times where if you have to ask you probably shouldnt be doing it.

Old houses like this hold alot of suprises. for example, I was working on a house built in the late 50s which was wired with greenfield. I had a circuit with a blue wire in one box and a black in another. I figured I had a JB in the attic or under the house, but I could not find it. Out of frustration I yanked on the blue with my linemans and it came flying out of the flex as I saw the black disapear into its box. Turns out the two wires were soldered and taped together then pulled through the flex. The tape was melted, I cant believe it didnt short out. Found 3 or 4 more of these.

 

[katit]

really, this is one of those times where if you have to ask you probably shouldnt be doing it.

I won't comment on that. Let me put it this way. I'm confident in myself doing those things but I want some opinions.

Obviously, it looks like labor-intensive job.

House is very well built and so far I'm very happy with it (compare to my previous 20yo house). It's just 50yo and current power requirements different. Thats all. They probably didn't have code specifying outlets to be separate from light back then. If I didn't use space heaters I wouldn't have those issues even now.

I really want to hear story how "you" did that. For example, if I found "bad" branch that involves separate rooms - how would you do it? Replace all? If you have some lightin on it, would you brake it to separate circuit?

P.S. when I bought house panel was replaced with service entrance as well. All inspected. There was 4 empty slots and I used one for 20A basement workshop area, 2x for 100A subpanel going to garage and have 1 spot left.

 

[mrb]

I won't comment on that. Let me put it this way. I'm confident in myself doing those things but I want some opinions.

Obviously, it looks like labor-intensive job.

Ok, sorry if I came off a bit rude. I (mistakenly) interpreted your post as "how do I rewire my house?"

 

[Mickey O]

Conduit (EMT), BX/Greenfield or Romex? If you have conduit it's a breeze.

 

[katit]

No, I have regular wiring, no conduit. It looks like a romex but got some type of fabric-looking cover.

I replaced outlets in 3 rooms with grounded ones. Did some tests in some places and all boxes were grounded so I just used bolt to attach grounding wire. Now I went around and checked all outlets once again and found 3 ungrounded ones. Obviously, not all boxes grounded.

 

[katit]

So, what the consensus would be? Mapping circuits is probably required step #1.
After I get map and figure exactly where my wires life should be easier.

 

[Snap-Off]

No, I have regular wiring, no conduit. It looks like a romex but got some type of fabric-looking cover.

Knob and tube wiring? Sounds like it, with lath and plaster.

 

[mrb]

careful using the ground wire inside that old cloth romex stuff, especially if the service has been upgraded from fuses to breakers. The ground in that cable is usually really undersized, 18awg or 16awg and can burn open during a ground fault (short) before the breaker opens.

 

[katit]

careful using the ground wire inside that old cloth romex stuff, especially if the service has been upgraded from fuses to breakers. The ground in that cable is usually really undersized, 18awg or 16awg and can burn open during a ground fault (short) before the breaker opens.

Yes, that sounds very true. But this better then nothing, right?

 

[rodnok1]

I agree with replacing the wiring all together. Since you want to split the circuits anyways, it may be easier to pull new wires and isolate that are from the old. That way you could do one area at a time and not kill power to the entire house. Since you have full access to basement and attic it should be easier. For running new/replacing circuits you can remove the basaeboard cut into the wall to help run the circuit since it is covered up anyways.

 

[mrb]

Yes, that sounds very true. But this better then nothing, right?

by itself, not really. The proper thing to do with ungrounded circuits is to protect them with GFCIs.

 

[katit]

I agree with replacing the wiring all together. Since you want to split the circuits anyways, it may be easier to pull new wires and isolate that are from the old. That way you could do one area at a time and not kill power to the entire house. Since you have full access to basement and attic it should be easier. For running new/replacing circuits you can remove the basaeboard cut into the wall to help run the circuit since it is covered up anyways.

I guess I just need a strategy.
Here is real problem. For example, I want to replace all wiring in office. Ideally - I want separate 20A branch for outlets (3 outlets) and separate branch for lights (probably shared with other room). I don't know how to approach that since currently outlets and light on a same circuit. I imagine I should temporary make a "bridge" to cross area I'm operating on and preserve energy to other rooms. I hope you see what I'm saying. Looks like before I have map of my circuits it is pointless discussion.

 

[JBurgess]

No, I have regular wiring, no conduit. It looks like a romex but got some type of fabric-looking cover.

Does it look like this?

That is older type NM. As MRB mentioned it probably has a undersized ground wire if any by current code.

 

[Aceman]

If you're on the 08 NEC be prepared for AFCI's. You may not be able to get them for your panel if it's an old one...

You need to get with your electrical inspector to determine what needs to happen. There may be local code requirements.

Some of the code requirements actually make sense. One of them is that overhead lighting are not on the same circuit as outlets.

Which NEC article is that?

 

[sberry]

Ace, I left that one for you,,, hahaha but only one I know of is for kitchen countertops.

 

[katit]

Does it look like this?

That is older type NM. As MRB mentioned it probably has a undersized ground wire if any by current code.

Yep, thats it. It does have ground wire but I don't see it in boxes. Only inside panel. They must be used to ground boxes itself.

Anyway, I got new panel and it is all inspected and good. I want to at least partially refresh my wiring so outlets is good.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[hidollartoys]

For the recepts, from the basement you could locate the room and the individual walls for a particular room. Then drill up from the basement to the first recept location. You will have to decide where this will be in the room. You will have to cut a hole in the plaster for the box. You will probably want to use an "old work" box that will fit your wall thickness. Fish the wire up from the basement to the first box then back down and over to the next location continuing until all boxes are installed. Some wall patching will/might be required.

For overhead lighting you will have to first fish the wiring to the attic, to the fixture locations and then down the wall to the switches. Same procedure as the recepts but from the attic. To get the wiring to the attic you will have to find or create a "chase" that allows you to run the wiring to the attic from the basement. In some situations I have constructed a false corner in a closet or other out of the way room to run the wiring to the attic. You could locate a wall cavity and remove all the plaster and lath in that area, run all your wiring and then patch that area. I assume the panal is in the basement.