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Wiring sub panel to main Panel

S. BROWER

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Jan 3, 2009
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10
Question, by code, is it legal to tie to the main power lugs on a 200 amp main panel, to run and place a second 200 amp panel beside the existing panel.

Placing the same gauge wire between panels.

OR place a 100 amp breaker and run to the 200 amp panel which will feed
a detached garage with a 100 amp panel.
 
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rinny_tin_tin

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Northern Virginia
Question, by code, is it legal to tie to the main power lugs on a 200 amp main panel, to run and place a second 200 amp panel beside the existing panel.

Placing the same gauge wire between panels.

OR place a 100 amp breaker and run to the 200 amp panel which will feed
a detached garage with a 100 amp panel.

Sure is code legal to ****** together panels - as long as they are rated for the service and the conductors feeding each are sized correctly, AND they are within 25 feet of each other. I don.t have my NEC with me here - but I'm sure someone else can provide the NEC citation.

Remember now to keep track of yer breakers - each downstream breaker should be lower than the one upstream feeding it, and you can't have (should not) more than three breakers to the load. Yeah--I know - someone will tell me that they have four or more and everything has been fine, etc however, overlay your trip curves for the MCCBs and you see what I mean.
 

Aceman

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Question, by code, is it legal to tie to the main power lugs on a 200 amp main panel, to run and place a second 200 amp panel beside the existing panel.

Placing the same gauge wire between panels.

OR place a 100 amp breaker and run to the 200 amp panel which will feed
a detached garage with a 100 amp panel.

No, it's not legal. But you can install a 100 amp breaker to feed a second panel.
Remember now to keep track of yer breakers - each downstream breaker should be lower than the one upstream feeding it, and you can't have (should not) more than three breakers to the load. Yeah--I know - someone will tell me that they have four or more and everything has been fine, etc however, overlay your trip curves for the MCCBs and you see what I mean.
I disagree.

Using your guidelines with the above posters scenario, you'd want him to use a 100 amp breaker with 100 amp rated wire feeding a one size smaller 90 amp breaker in the garage panel. Essentially wasting 10 amps for no reason other than keeping the breaker smaller than the one feeding it? He only has 2 breakers before the garage panel, there is absolutely no reason they both can't be rated 100 amps. If one day he should happen to overload it, it'll simply be a race to see which breaker will trip first. Does it really matter which one goes?
 

LoneGunman

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No, it's not legal. But you can install a 100 amp breaker to feed a second panel.

I disagree.

Using your guidelines with the above posters scenario, you'd want him to use a 100 amp breaker with 100 amp rated wire feeding a one size smaller 90 amp breaker in the garage panel. Essentially wasting 10 amps for no reason other than keeping the breaker smaller than the one feeding it? He only has 2 breakers before the garage panel, there is absolutely no reason they both can't be rated 100 amps. If one day he should happen to overload it, it'll simply be a race to see which breaker will trip first. Does it really matter which one goes?

Aceman, Unless I'm misunderstanding something, he's asking if he can come off the main lugs in his panel and feed a panel next to it. As long as the lugs are changed and the panel next to it is a main breaker and not a main lug, I'm not seeing the code violation. Now I'm not saying that's the best way to do it, if it were me I'd add a few tandems to gain two slots and slap in my 100a breaker and either run to the garage or use it to feed a sub next to it, I'd most likely run it straight out to the garage, unless I was planning some fairly extensive work in the future where I may need the new subpanel.

Edited part: After thinking about it a few more minutes, I can see the double lugs being a problem in certain small residential type panels. Every time weve done this it was coming out of an MDP in a large commercial or industrial facility.
 
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rinny_tin_tin

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No, it's not legal. But you can install a 100 amp breaker to feed a second panel.

I disagree.

Using your guidelines with the above posters scenario, you'd want him to use a 100 amp breaker with 100 amp rated wire feeding a one size smaller 90 amp breaker in the garage panel. Essentially wasting 10 amps for no reason other than keeping the breaker smaller than the one feeding it? He only has 2 breakers before the garage panel, there is absolutely no reason they both can't be rated 100 amps. If one day he should happen to overload it, it'll simply be a race to see which breaker will trip first. Does it really matter which one goes?


"No, it's not legal. But you can install a 100 amp breaker to feed a second panel."

Either you have a Code cite or its just your incorrect opinion. Are you saying that the NEC does not allow taps?


"Does it really matter which one goes?"

Sure can matter if someone has to trudge all the way back from one building to another to reset the CB -- its called [bad] practice and/or poor design. You in the habit of putting more than three MCCBs in a string? Tell us how he is wasting 10 amps cuz he downgrades to a 90A in lieu of a 100 at the garage sub panel ....What if he used a 110A or 125A CB at the nippled tapped panel to feed the garage subpanel - does he then gain 10A or 25A
 
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Aceman

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Either you have a Code cite or its just your incorrect opinion. Are you saying that the NEC does not allow taps?
Do you think it's okay to add a second 200 amp panel to the line side of a service only sized for 200 amps?
"Does it really matter which one goes?"

Sure can matter if someone has to trudge all the way back from one building to another to reset the CB -- its called [bad] practice and/or poor design. You in the habit of putting more than three MCCBs in a string? Tell us how he is wasting 10 amps cuz he downgrades to a 90A in lieu of a 100 at the garage sub panel ....What if he used a 110A or 125A CB at the nippled tapped panel to feed the garage subpanel - does he then gain 10A or 25A

I'm not going to waste much time replying to this particular quote, I have a feeling I'm simply debating with an armchair electrician who has no real field experience.

Bottom line, this practice is done all the time. There are thousands of installations just like this all over the country. The breaker shouldn't be tripping to begin with if the system was designed properly. You can breaker it down at the garage panel all you want when you do the install. Me? I'm going to give the customer the full 100 amps everytime.
 
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rinny_tin_tin

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Do you think it's okay to add a second 200 amp panel to the line side of a service only sized for 200 amps?


I'm not going to waste much time replying to this particular quote, I have a feeling I'm simply debating with an armchair electrician who has no real field experience.

Bottom line, this practice is done all the time. There are thousands of installations just like this all over the country. The breaker shouldn't be tripping to begin with if the system was designed properly. You can breaker it down at the garage panel all you want when you do the install. Me? I'm going to give the customer the full 100 amps everytime.



"Do you think it's okay to add a second 200 amp panel to the line side of a service only sized for 200 amps? "


Cite...cite...please give me a cite...so I can raise meself from this armchair and stroll to me reference library to see your basis.
 
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S. BROWER

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Jan 3, 2009
Messages
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Good feed back - I will re-arrange my main panel, combing some 15 amp breakes to be duals to give me more room in the existing panel. I have already added a 100 amp sub panel to power the existing garage - welder, compressor and many plugs. I will move the welder and compressor to the new shop, place a 100 amp breaker in the main and add upgrade the existing sub panel to carry the existing plugs in the garage, adding a 100 amp to then power the new shop.

Thanks again for the responses.

S. Brower
 

Torque1st

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I am not quite sure what you are trying to do...

Check your main panel for the number of circuits you are allowed in the panel. The number is usually on the product listing sticker on the door.
 
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