Wiring through a duplex receptacle

[checkthisout]

Did you bother to look at the published link **** provided ????

http://www.handymanhowto.com/electrical-outlets-side-wire-versus-back-wire/

Did you bother to read anything posted before his post?

 

[Showkey]

yes.....some guys do not like back stabbing and push connectors.

Backwiring? I don't know what choo talk'n bout Willis!

If you do not backwiring is .........why would comment on ?

 

[jeffmoss26]

Saw a so-called professional electrician do a video on YT...pulling power off a switch to feed an outlet. The backstab was feeding power to the switch, and he used the screw as his outlet power... I cringed.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Saw a so-called professional electrician do a video on YT...pulling power off a switch to feed an outlet. The backstab was feeding power to the switch, and he used the screw as his outlet power... I cringed.

The "old school" method was to leave one of the wires extra long and cut back a bit of the insulation about 6" from the end. Wrap that bare part around the screw and the use the end to splice/wire nut on the other wires.

 

[Dagny]

If you think a wire nut makes a better connection than a screw terminal then pigtail if not put them on the screws.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Well, I might as well shock all the pro sparky's on here and give a reason some sparky's like to use the pigtails to branch off to the device, like I do and have done so for 40 years....

The pigtails allow the sparky to change out a burned up or broken receptacle.... HOT .... while never breaking the connection to the downstream circuit loads ..

 

[checkthisout]

The "old school" method was to leave one of the wires extra long and cut back a bit of the insulation about 6" from the end. Wrap that bare part around the screw and the use the end to splice/wire nut on the other wires.

I installed all new outlets in a house built in 1973. Incoming to top screws, outgoing on bottom. The only thing that stood out to me was the wire nuts were screwed on but then crimped..

 

[Gerald O]

Ha, ha, ha,......good one!

We're in Detroit......

Bill

What does that mean? Are you saying that Detroit does not have an electrical code?

 

[WanderingSol07]

I believe if you use all four screws on a duplex you should be concerned with the amperage on the downstream duplexes. I remember if your circuit is 20A, then downstream the duplex should be 15A max. In other words using the outlet in the circuit of downstream outlet(s) will limit the current carrying capacity. The conductors in the outlet, brass plate, screws, and such, are not as good a conductor as the copper wire.

 

[checkthisout]

I believe if you use all four screws on a duplex you should be concerned with the amperage on the downstream duplexes. I remember if your circuit is 20A, then downstream the duplex should be 15A max. In other words using the outlet in the circuit of downstream outlet(s) will limit the current carrying capacity. The conductors in the outlet, brass plate, screws, and such, are not as good a conductor as the copper wire.

I bet it provides the same, if not a better connection than wire nuts and pigtails.

And no, all outlets are rated for 20 amp pass-through.

Pigtails do make it easier to fold the wires into the box. You can push the nuts in and only have to worry about 3 single strands of wire to fold in rather than 5 or 6.

 

[checkthisout]

I had electrician friend that used to make up all his outlets with pigtails and then do everything with wire nuts at the box.

He felt it was less taxing on his hands and arms vs using all four outlet screws. He also felt is saved him some out in the field. Less precision required when stripping and less steps because he didn't have to pre-bend the wires to go around the screws.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Most people use the pigtail to keep from all the power you use down stream don't have to go through the first outlet. It will cause the first outlet to burn out.

No it won't. The current is not flowing THROUGH the outlet. It flows through the bus bars. If that was true, one outlet on every duplex receptacle would burn out.

Tommy

 

[theoldwizard1]

What does that mean? Are you saying that Detroit does not have an electrical code?

It might HAVE a code, but like most things in Detroit, especially residential, it is likely not enforced.

There are still a lot of house that have "knob and tube" wiring. Many "squatters" climb power poles and do illegal tap ins, HOT ! Copper wire has been stripped from all empty building and even from some occupied powered buildings.

The local power company will not go into certain areas or leave if actively working after dark. They even have cameras on repair trucks because so many thefts of wire have occurred in broad daylight.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Have we helped the original poster?

 

[checkthisout]

Have we helped the original poster?

What?? We were supposed to be helping somebody??

 

[bczygan]

Have we helped the original poster?

You most assuredly HAVE helped me.

My first circuit, I used pigtails.

My second I used the duplex's screws to pass it through.

Either way works great, but I think I'll pass through from now on.

And concerning code and extending un-grounded circuits, this is a temporary thing, until those circuits and the entire service panel are replaced and upgraded from a 60Amp fused panel to a 200Amp breaker panel.

Just picked up some more lamp bases and boxes so I can add light and power in the big shed addition I just completed.

Now, if I could just remember where I left my wire nuts......

Bill

 

[woodzy]

Here is my two cents. I just built a new house and all of them were pigtails. The reason is as follows. You can make these up during rough in and when the drywall is done, all you need to do is connect three wire to each outlet/switch.

Here is one of the biggest advantages. With them all made up ahead of time, you can check the integrity of the circuit with a meter before you add any outlets.

Also, when you go an push the outlet in the box, you only need to flex three wires instead of 5. If you are using 12 gauge it really helps with the pigtails.

 

[bczygan]

Here is my two cents. I just built a new house and all of them were pigtails. The reason is as follows. You can make these up during rough in and when the drywall is done, all you need to do is connect three wire to each outlet switch.

Here is one of the biggest advantages. With them all made up ahead of time, you can check the integrity of the circuit with a meter before you add any outlets.

Also, when you go an push the outlet in the box, you only need to flex three wires instead of 5. If you are using 12 gauge it really helps with the pigtails.

That is good thinking. And some methods of circuit testing might be a good education.

In this case, these are temporary sheds, the biggest of which is getting 2 lights, 1 switch and one outlet. There is no drywall or finish. Turn on the switch, and if the lights don't work, that's the test. Same with the receptacle. Plug something in. It works or doesn't.

Just wired the last shed. Everything works fine. Might add a fixture on the face of the shed to light up the yard though.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Here is my two cents. I just built a new house and all of them were pigtails. The reason is as follows. You can make these up during rough in and when the drywall is done, all you need to do is connect three wire to each outlet switch.

Here is one of the biggest advantages. With them all made up ahead of time, you can check the integrity of the circuit with a meter before you add any outlets.

Also, when you go an push the outlet in the box, you only need to flex three wires instead of 5. If you are using 12 gauge it really helps with the pigtails.

This brings up another question. Is there any problem with running 12 to an outlet, and then 14 from the outlet to a switch and light(s)?

Does the pigtail or through method effect this at all?

Bill

 

[bczygan]

And one more dumb question.

I notice that the cheap blue boxes I use have little square knockouts for the Romex to go through. I assume these just get removed.

The blue plastic boxes for overhead lights have access slots with plastic covers that remain and have some spring to them, so that they hold the Romex in place.

I know that in both cases that the Romex must be fastened to the structure, so why the difference?

Bill

 

[theoldwizard1]

This brings up another question. Is there any problem with running 12 to an outlet, and then 14 from the outlet to a switch and light(s)?

What size is the fuse/breaker ? If it is a 15A, there should be no problem. It may NOT be code and it is NOT a "best practice", but it is SAFE !

"Best practice" is to run outlets and light on separate circuits. (Yes, I know you are "in transition".)

 

[woodzy]

I would never add a 14 gage to a 12 gage wire in an existing circuit. I understand that if you have a 15amp breaker it would be OK, but at the fuse panel you would have the 12 gage wire and if someone blew that breaker and looked at the panel they may just think - hey, the guy that wired it didn't realize that this could be a 20 amp circuit and just change the breaker to a 20 amp. Now down stream, your 14 gage wire would be an issue. Don't mix wire sizes anywhere unless it is fused protected at where the wire changes gage (such as a dedicated machine).

 

[Duck tape Bill]

And one more dumb question.

I notice that the cheap blue boxes I use have little square knockouts for the Romex to go through. I assume these just get removed.

The blue plastic boxes for overhead lights have access slots with plastic covers that remain and have some spring to them, so that they hold the Romex in place.

I know that in both cases that the Romex must be fastened to the structure, so why the difference?

Bill

Hi Bill,
Don't remove the square knockouts, one end is a hinge, and you break the other end loose with a screwdriver (pushing it into the box). That way, when you push the wire into the box, the wire gets caught by the edge of the knockout and doesn't let the wire pull back out of the box. Here is a pic that might help:

http://www.ronstultz.com/knowledge/images/Home%20Electrical%20Wiring/Junction%20Box/(1)%20Prepare%20Junction%20box.JPG

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Don't remove the square knockouts, one end is a hinge, and you break the other end loose with a screwdriver (pushing it into the box). That way, when you push the wire into the box, the wire gets caught by the edge of the knockout and doesn't let the wire pull back out of the box. Here is a pic that might help.

What if the square knockouts are removed. Is that a code violation?

 

[bczygan]

Hi Bill,
Don't remove the square knockouts, one end is a hinge, and you break the other end loose with a screwdriver (pushing it into the box). That way, when you push the wire into the box, the wire gets caught by the edge of the knockout and doesn't let the wire pull back out of the box. Here is a pic that might help:

http://www.ronstultz.com/knowledge/images/Home%20Electrical%20Wiring/Junction%20Box/(1)%20Prepare%20Junction%20box.JPG

I'm not talking about that kind. Those do a great job of holding the Romex in place.

I'm talking about the kind that you can see in the lower right hand corner of this box:

Bill

 

[Duck tape Bill]

What if the square knockouts are removed. Is that a code violation?

I'm not sure, but I would think so since they take the place of these:

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/exterior/siding/vinyl/accessories/j_block_01/sdvnjb08acr_vinyl_j_block.jpg

I'm not talking about that kind. Those do a great job of holding the Romex in place.

I'm talking about the kind that you can see in the lower right hand corner of this box:

Bill

I think it's the same, just a little different design. So you would break one side of the tab, and leave the other attached.

 

[KenC]

Here is my two cents. I just built a new house and all of them were pigtails. The reason is as follows. You can make these up during rough in and when the drywall is done, all you need to do is connect three wire to each outlet/switch.

Here is one of the biggest advantages. With them all made up ahead of time, you can check the integrity of the circuit with a meter before you add any outlets.

Also, when you go an push the outlet in the box, you only need to flex three wires instead of 5. If you are using 12 gauge it really helps with the pigtails.

Agree! I use a lot of quad recpts too so the pigtails really help. And, I make all pigtails and the using stranded wire which really eases the task of folding things into the box.

 

[Gerald O]

And one more dumb question.

I notice that the cheap blue boxes I use have little square knockouts for the Romex to go through. I assume these just get removed.

Yes, they are to be removed. Code allows for no strain relief or 'attachment' of the NM cable at the box for single gang outlet boxes. Still must attach to framing member within x inches of the box.

The blue plastic boxes for overhead lights have access slots with plastic covers that remain and have some spring to them, so that they hold the Romex in place.

I know that in both cases that the Romex must be fastened to the structure, so why the difference?

Bill

The exemption is only for single gang boxes.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I think it's the same, just a little different design. So you would break one side of the tab, and leave the other attached.

Specifically, break the BOTTOM half of the tab and push it in. When you feed your Romex® in, pull back a bit and the tab will dig in and act like a clamp on the Romex®.

When using the top hole, break the other side of the tab and push in.

 

[bczygan]

I'd like to get a consensus here.

I think the boxes, from various manufacturers, that have a heavy duty tab, with only the bottom or the top movable, is meant to stay in place and keep the Romex clamped as it enters the box.

The small, flimsy tab shown in my second photo, is I believe, meant to be removed and discarded.

Anyone know other wise?

Bill

 

[Stuff]

Maximum support distance in inches from box or other terminations for NM/UF: 12" - or within 8 inches of boxes without cable clamps.

So for that box you can remove the break-out but need a staple within 8"

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

So for that box you can remove the break-out but need a staple within 8"

Good. Thanks!