wisdom for a young pup

[pjcforpres2020]

I am working on getting my set built for when I finish tech school. I am pretty set on the route I am taking for most of my tools, mostly SK stuff, with some Snap On, Knipex, ect... all being added on to/ in place of my Craftsman set(260 piece mechanics set I got a couple years ago as a B-Day gift, it will be used as back up/ for red headed step child treatment)

I am still trying to decide on who to go with on some stuff, and am going to treat myself to a couple special treats(I like having things other people don't)

For torx bits it seems that a lot of people offer them, but only a few really hold up... Snap On, Koken, and some have said Apex for impact.

Any suggestions/ advice on Koken and Apex, and where to buy Koken? I have googled my brains out for Koken, and it lookes like this is my best bet from the USA, but would like some reassurane/ better suggestions.
http://www.thetoolnetwork.com/koken_tools.html

I am also still trying to decide on tool storage... I am thinking I will get something used and fairly local to start off with, so it will be whatever the universe decides to bless me with... But I really want to get something that can haul a fair amount and be rolled around farily easily... I saw someone post a link to a Beta cart that looked almost exactly like what I am talking about:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001ODIOPU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Anyone know if that cart is worth the money? I have a couple Beta ratchets that my brother gave me along with that Craftsman set, and they are extremely nice and have held up very well! He is a big Ferrari F1 fan, so naturally he had to get them for me...

Or does anyone know of similar cart made by someone else and that they have good experience with?

 

[Merkava_4]

Anyone know if that cart is worth the money?

I looked at it and I'd much rather have a Kennedy 3900MP with a phenolic top.

 

[pjcforpres2020]

I looked at it and I'd much rather have a Kennedy 3900MP with a phenolic top.

Thank you very much for the recommendation! That looks pretty much perfect! Now time to see if my local industrial supply can get Kennedy!

When I make my big buy come Septemeber, I will be sure to get some pics up!

 

[Thedroid]

The only problem with Koken and Apex, is availability. I like to stick with Snap-on for bits. They are durable, and easy to replace. I absolutely love Knipex Cobra's and Plier-wrenches. I also think that Snap-on's new talon grip needle nose pliers are the best available, but I haven't tried Knipex yet. I would also make a special condideration for the SO dual 80 ratchets. They're pricey as hell, but super smooth.

 

[speed bump]

Torx bits break so go with the easiest to warranty, go with the impacts first and later on down the road if you really really need them get the non impacts.

Heres something important to remember as a starting out tech: A tech with cheap hand tools and the right specialty tools will make more money than a tech without specialty tools 90% of the time. Tools like pullers, air tools, scanners and testers are worth there weight in gold.

 

[pearl_dude]

I am going to start school next month to become an auto tech and this thread is very informative. What type of pullers, air tools, scanners, and testers am I going to need?

 

[yogitech]

I am going to start school next month to become an auto tech and this thread is very informative. What type of pullers, air tools, scanners, and testers am I going to need?

Pullers- Steering puller, slide hammer (with accesories), Ball joint master set, steering pullers, etc...

Air tools- 1/2" impact (IRT2135qti.. bias), 1/4" & 3/8" air ratchets, Air hammer set, Maybe a 3/8" impact (IRT2115....bias), air grinder, surface prep grinder, etc...

Scanners- Depending on the shop you work at this might get REALLY expensive, but, at the very least a code reader, etc

Testers- DMM, Test light, maybe cooling system pressure tester, vaccume pump and guage, Assortment of micrometers, etc..

There rest of the needed tools will show them self as needed. Take your time choosing the right tools. Don't get your self in a mind set of having to buy only the truck brands, theres lots of options. You'll know it when you get there. Good luck....

 

[pearl_dude]

Thanks a lot!! yogitech

 

[T56 Impala]

Thats actually a great price for that Beta unit. Just so you know.

 

[wreckercologist]

There's a lot of good advise being given here. I'll stay out of what tools you should get and say this:

Get your tools and toolbox organized, documented, and marked in some way, be it etched, a paint stripe, tape, ect. This kinda depends on the shop and the people you work with. Some of my stuff is marked because there are numerous duplicates in the shop and some I don't mark because I'm the only one who has one. An example would be Snap on OEX wrenches. I have two sets in metric and two in english. There are another five or six sets in other guys boxes throughout the shop. Mine are marked to eliminate any "confusion".

Also, try to get in the habit of oiling your air tools everytime they are used, servicing ratchets as needed, and most importantly, when your are done using something, put it back. Then check your box for everything before you release the car/truck/bike/spaceshuttle to the customer. losing tools *****!!!

I'm not trying to be a know it all, just offering a few hard earned tips. Good luck with the new career!

 

[msrfrog]

IF you live at home still take advantage and buy lots of tools now. Do not go crazy with specialty stuff now. Just build a good set of all basic stuff. meaning like tools that will be used every day . As you start you should not need any expensive specialty type stuff. I always let the new guys use some of my stuff if they need it, but I believe in the saying" I you have to borrow it more then 2 times in like a month you should buy it" especially in a flat rate shop.

 

[wreckercologist]

IF you live at home still take advantage and buy lots of tools now. I always let the new guys use some of my stuff if they need it, but I believe in the saying" I you have to borrow it more then 2 times in like a month you should buy it" especially in a flat rate shop.

+1.

When I still lived at home, I spent over $9000.00 in one year on the snappy truck! LOL!!! I've never regretted that at all.

+1 on buying it if you borrow it more than twice. I like helping people out and understand when someone new starts. It can be tough between buying tools, car payments, rent, food, gas, ect. What I don't understand is the guy in my shop who borrows the same stuff today, as he did on day one nearly four years ago. He seems to have no problem buying a new 4 wheeler, or compound bow for deer season.

It's not someone else's duty to provide a flat rate tech with the means to earn a living.

 

[pearl_dude]

Thanks that's great advice wreckercologist and msrfrog! This forum has helped me out a lot. Garage Journal Rules!!

 

[South Bay Tools]

I've dealt with students such as yourself for the past 13 years. I recommend sticking with the 1st Tier tools such Snap-on, Mac & Matco if you can afford it & if you're planning to stay in the automotive/diesel repair bz. Be weary of SK for now; they're having some inventory/manufacturing issues---inside scoop. Ko-ken-great tool, high quality but hard to find unless you have a Stahlwillie or Baum Tool (Florida) in your area. However, "I" do carry a small inventory of Ko-ken tools if your interested (hesitant to really warranty anything though). Apex-more for industrial assembly line type work. High quality, very expensive. Tool Storage-I tell my student/customers, "I've never seen an expensive toolbox make a dime for a technician". It looks nice, keeps you organized & thieves out. Invest in a scan tool, a/c machine or an inexpensive hand-held diagnostic equipment, ie: Innova, Actron...For now, get a Waterloo or Craftsman and work yourself up (to debt) to a professional box. Your fellow technician's laughter will die out eventually. On the other hand, if you're trying to impress your new boss, he knows your serious if you already have a 1st Tier brand box. Confused? Basically, if you can afford the good stuff now, buy it! The price will only go up in the future. Toolcarts- it's the new trend! With techs getting bigger toolboxes (Snap-on KRL1065) & filling them up, it's a little hard to move that 1/2 ton sucker. Thus in carts, you can have the basic tools, sockets & wrenches and "transfer" whatever tools you need from the "big" box for a particular job. Beta carts are very good & pricey. But who's gonna warranty the drawer slides or casters when they go bad? Snap-on makes a nice cart! Hope that helps!

 

[pjcforpres2020]

Thank you all for your input! I will take it into consideration. I am engaged(She is in nursing program right now, with 2 years left), 24, living with her on our own, ect. So my budget is pretty tight. I also don't want to accumulate 30 grand in debt with the Snap On guy, and I prefer the feel of SK tools anyways. I am not worried about quality or warranty, my local dealer is giving me a great deal, will warranty all my stuff through them, and if anything does meet my expectations upon unboxing, they will order a new set/ replace any items off the shelf if they have it.

I have a Craftsman Ball Bearing stack right now that should do me fine for my non-mobile storage, and I am probably going to pull the trigger on that Kennedy 3900MP roller when I get the money. I think I am going to go with SK for my torx to start with, since warranty will be easiest with those... and slowly build up Snap On bits and sockets off eBay.

Also, I already have a lot of test/ specialty tools... and the shop I will be at is a full service European car shop, and they supply a lot of specialty items and test tools. They gave me a list of what I should try and have in my tool box, and I have it all covered specialty tool wise... my main concern is with upgrading some of my stuff, and filling out other areas, like impact sockets, 1/2" hand sockets, torx and other bit drives, and getting some time saver stuff, like ratcheting wrenches, more extensions and attachements, ect.

I am also really hoping my Uncle decides to give me a metric 6 point combo wrensh set he has sitting around doing not much more than collecting dust... he has more tools than anyone I know, was a mill wright for about 10 years, then a crane opperator for another 20, so he has picked up a bunch of stuff over the years.

 

[yogitech]

^ You can't go wrong with Sunex impacts or GP.... Cheap and reliably strong- lifetime warranty too.

 

[pjcforpres2020]

^ You can't go wrong with Sunex impacts or GP.... Cheap and reliably strong- lifetime warranty too.

How well do those fit the fastners? I don't have a lot of experience with impact tools... I know those two get mentioned a lot on here as being durable and cheap, but how do they perform in terms of not maring the fastner?

 

[msrfrog]

I am really liking my 3/8 metric duo gp set.

 

[Plombob]

Make the rounds of the local swaps and estate sales. You may find some good tools cheap. That's how I became a Plomb maniac.

 

[yogitech]

How well do those fit the fastners? I don't have a lot of experience with impact tools... I know those two get mentioned a lot on here as being durable and cheap, but how do they perform in terms of not maring the fastner?

I've used them everyday since new for the past 4yrs. Haven't had any issues, very durable. Broke a 19mm thin wall (My own fault, should have used a shallow socket instead- overtorqued), turned it in to the tool truck and got a new one no questions asked. Pricing is very good when you compare the master socket sets available.

 

[Snap on]

Thank you all for your input! I will take it into consideration. I think I am going to go with SK for my torx to start with, since warranty will be easiest with those... and slowly build up Snap On bits and sockets off eBay.

Here is your first mistake, I am sure we will be reading a post from you in the future about how Snap On *****, you want to buy your Snap On tools off of e-bay yet when ever you do need to have something replaced you will be running out to the Snap On truck wanting him to replace it when he shows up at your shops door each week.

Remember you are not spending any money with him but you are asking him to take the hit each time you need to warranty something. He has to get reimbursed from Snap On which takes away from his working capitol. You can just as easy mail it to Snap On yourself. Kind of takes away the personal touch and the convenience of that tool truck coming to your door when you have go mail it dose it not?

I have never met a Snap On, MAC, Cornwell or Matco dealer who would not warranty something as long as there is a two way relationship. But I have seen them not warranty for someone who never buys anything.

Look at it this way you are working at this place for the last two or three years you have never spent anything on the tool truck with any of the four brands, you are new to the business yet you have built up this name brand tool inventory but you have not spent any money with the guy who is supporting your route.

You are costing them extra work and a loss of working capitol through your warranty requirements. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment and think how it would effect you to have customers who never buy anything from you but expect you to be there every week to take care of their warranty needs. I bet it would not be long at all before you started cutting people off.

I have built up a relationship with Snap On, MAC, Matco and the Cornwell Dealers, I know I can walk onto any of their trucks and they will take care of me no questions asked, it is all about a two way street, I do business with them and they can stay in business to provide service to me.

Think about it, I bet it will start to make since. By the way after a while you are going to get tired having to be the one who has to go and get your stuff warranted on your time. Driving to the stores involved gets old quickly. Much nicer having that truck come to your door. Is it a little more expensive on that truck, yes sir it is, but look at how much nicer it is.

 

[msrfrog]

Building a two way relationship with a tool guy is great. But it can cost a small fortune. Especially a snap on relationship. I deal mostly with matco. snap on second for the things that must be snap on , like flank drive adjustable wrenches! And now I just ordered some toptul stuff from mike wren.

It is true that getting stuff warrantied from tool trucks is hard if you did not buy it from them. But if you do business with them they will most likely take care of you.

The best advice is pay your tool bills. If you miss a week make it up next week(double payment)! My matco guy will give me truck credit on anything I want because he knows I will pay. Good credit is priceless.

When you make your living with tools you need to have access to get what you need. It is hard if no trucks will sell to you. You can make good money but you need to know how to fix the cars and the tools to do it quickly and neatly.

 

[pjcforpres2020]

msrfrog and Snap On:

I have a meeting set up with the Snap On guy that visits the shop I will be working at. Going to take a look at some used boxes he has, and I am picking up some wobble plus extensions, flare nut wrenches, and am going to take a look at pricing on the driver bits. The local Mac guy is hard to get a hold of, he covers a lot of rural area, and the Matco guy is out of business.

I want to avoid taking out lines of credit with the truck guys as much as possible, because I don't like owing people money, and money is tight. I have a couple grand saved, and am getting 2 grand extra in grants for fall semester(doing a business AA at nights to help me down the road start my own shop/ manage a shop). I have put together a list that totals a little over $2500 that will put me in good shape tool wise...

Note: I am focusing on getting all metric in these, because I will only be working on European cars at the shop I am going to work at, and already have plenty of SAE craftsman if I need it for an occassional job, plus it saves lots of money, and lets me focus on getting more useful tools for my everyday work.

Full set up of 6 point sockets, full set up of impact sockets, numerous ratchets, IR Titanium impact ratchets and gun, plenty of extensions and adapters, socket bit sets, with some impact duplicates, full set of wrenches, pliers of all different sorts, screw drivers, some nice extras, like ratcheting wrenches, swivel head impact sockets, flex 3/8th 6pt sockets... and so forth. No box is included in that $2500, and in no way does that cover every tool, of course.

What it does do is give me a very solid set of professional grade tools across the board to build off of, and no debt. The place I am getting my SK stuff from is only 2 blocks away from the shop I will be working at, and even if it was the other side of town, I won't mind making the trip to get warrant exchanges for the prices I am paying, and the amount of tools I am getting. I also really like the feel of SK, grew up using it, so it is very natural to me. And, they are a full service industrial supply shop, and said they would be more than willing to stop by my shop if I needed something and couldn't make it to them.

I don't plan on being the guy that buys all his stuff off eBay, then expects the local dealer to warranty it. Like you said Snap On, that is not cool at all, and expecting someone to hurt themselves on my behalf, even though I haven't done anything to help them... I didn't mean to leave it at eBay as my only source, I was posting using my Blackberry, and didn't notice that when I edited my post, it got cut off... it should have also said I have a meeting with my future Snap On guy this weekend, so we will see.

To Snap On:

I am not sure why you feel it is necessary to make so many assumptions, and be a **** to me. Maybe you had a bad morning? Maybe you are a pissed off Snap On guy mad I picked a different brand? Not really sure... but assumptions are very dangerous things to make. Next time you want to assume you know somebody's future plans based off half a sentence in an online forum, and with a history of roughly 8 posts total, one of which by the way was about why Snap On guys don't and shouldn't warranty eBay stuff, and try and then try to lecture them, I suggest biting your tongue. And FYI, I wrote this paragraph several times, with the hopes of trying to be as nice as possible, yet still get the point across that I don't think your post was close to being responsible. Don't delete it, either, it is good advice for those that do plan on doing nothing but eBay... personally I could save about $400 going through eBay and other online vendors, but I much rather help my local suppliers(aka my neighbors).

Also, I don't think it is possible to bad mouth SO and their quality, ect. Prices, that depends on if you think it is worth it or not for the extra services, and the extra quality. I think it is a mixed bag, some cases it is without a doubt worth the extra cash, but other times I don't... ie why should I buy wrenches that hurt my hands? SO wrenches hurt my hands... not sure why, but they do... for many they are like holding a **** though, and to be honest at times I wish it were the same for me, since they are so damn nice(both the ***** and the SO wrenches that is)

 

[autoace]

For torx bits, I put in a vote for PB swiss. For bit sockets Proto are very good. MAC and Cornwell only have "Harbor Freight" rebrands. If you have a good Snap-on dealer you could get snappy's, but I never found SO bit sockets to be very durable.

Buy your bit sockets from whatever tool truck is the best for service and reliable, bit sockets bite the dust, it is just a fact.

Hazet has some durable/cool stuff, real pricy though, but "different" as you said. A couple of Hazet tools to go with the Knipex.

have fun buying tools.

 

[Dust]

I started as an apprentice tech a year ago. I had just a basic wrench and socket set, plus a few pliers, hammers, etc., all in a Craftsman road box.

My advice, get a starter set with those pieces, plus a few exotics (Basic puller, 12/24v test lamp, battery service kit, air ratchet, impact wrench and socket set), a moderate sized tool chest (A medium sized Craftsman or equivalent), and you'd be set for starting out. As a new tech your responsibilities would most likely just be lube work, battery service, and maybe basic repairs. As your repair skills grew, you'd learn what you need to buy in order to improve your repair time. It took me about six months to really get in the groove, and I'm still figuring out what I need and how badly I need it. I've encountered a few things I need exotics for, like external Torx or a square point socket, but usually the bulk of my work is constrained to a very small set of tools. Of course, I'm a dealer tech and work on the same cars every day, so if you start at an independent it's a different story.

Also, Snap-On is nice, but not the greatest. The bulk of my tools are Craftsman. I have a few Matco pieces, and maybe one or too Snap-On tools. I do just fine. Shop around. Often times the cheapie Craftsman is just as good or better than the expensive stuff, especially when it comes to price. For other things, it's best not to skimp and to just buy off the truck. For me, that's Matco, but only because I think their stuff is a bit more stylish and well designed. Plus I like my Matco guy better than the Snap-On, but that's beside the point.

Get in the trade with a basic set, and then you'll figure out what you really need. I know there's a student discount, and you should definitely take advantage of that, but I don't see the point in spending a lot of money before you're even working in a shop. I know you're just about to graduate trade school, but in reality you're still green. Hell, so am I. Point is, don't get to thinking you're going to be diagnosing vague driveability or heavy line tickets your first day. Most likely you'll be put on the lube rack with a grease gun and a jug of oil. So it's best to start small with stuff you know you'll need, rather than get over-ambitious and buy a massive set big enough to rebuild a Peterbilt, and then get stuck with a huge bill when you're just making twelve bucks an hour.

 

[pjcforpres2020]

Dust:

Thank you for your words of advice. That is about what my plan is right now. I have this money saved for the sole purpose of getting a more complete set of basics with a couple time savers.

I will be at a full service European used car lot... They gave me a list of absolute must have tools, and my buy covers all of those, and does go above and beyond, but is stuff the shop manager said would be good investments, and with the discount I will get on my big buy, it would be unwise to pass it up. I don't get the snap on discount, since I am not a full time student...

I will mostly be doing tune ups on cars coming from auction, trade ins, service work promised when the car was sold, like the sales man threw in new brake pads. Also, they have a lot of people bring in their cars for oil changes, and service schedules, like 60 thousand, 100 thousand, etc. Being European cars, and mostly newer, torx are basically a legal requirement.

My meet up with the snap on guy went well. He said I don't get the student discount, just like the one that comes to my CC said. He is going to give me 40% off, though, for my first year. He also had a couple decent used roll cabinets... Decisions decisions!

This is being posted with my blackberry, so sorry for any incoherence.

 

[msrfrog]

Wow if your going to get 40% off I would stick with him . sounds like a good guy.

 

[pjcforpres2020]

Wow if your going to get 40% off I would stick with him . sounds like a good guy.

Great guy! Mostly does business accounts, only visits the shop I will be at as a favor to the serevice manager, they are old friends.

The 40% off only applies to my first year, and it was in the context of me having cash on hand or paid off with in 6 months of my first year ending. Said he wouldn't let me go over oweing him 1k at any one point in time, and he does a flat rate of 50 a week. The only exception is on a box, but he said I would be wise to get used for now.

He makes his money off his business accounts, so he isn't trying to hussle me, and even said he thought I was smart and making the right move getting the SK stuff and avoiding debt.