Wood Flooring over Slab?

[karoc]

Guys being one man show working on my 1000sq ft retirement house my questions have been all over place. During the week at bedtime it’s hard go sleep with my mind going 100mph. I go through process on how I’m going to do something replaying in my mind over and over. Such as to how going stand up trusses by myself or with help to make most of the helps time. I know my next question is way to early to be asking but can’t stop thinking thinking about coming up with plan. In my early days living in house that was up on blocks just like all other houses during that time 50-60’s. Well I dream of that wood floor, so I want to relive that sound walking across wood floor and having a real wood floor. Not synthetic, even though they look good but just don’t look real. So finally to my question, besides am I crazy, waste time money?
With concrete slab I would like to put down 2x4 sleepers, then tongue/ groove plywood or OSB then try find some good quality 1x6 TG pine boards. I have 10’ ceiling height so no worries, and it’s only 1000sq ft living space. What do y’all think, has anyone else gone through trouble just have wood floor? Is it worth it, did you get results you were expecting.? I have ask this question before but looking to see if anyone has did this and if my plan sounds like it work or not. Thanks again, sorry for my rattling

 

[duneslider]

Here is my favorite way to do what you are wanting. Floating subfloor This is a fantastic method and gives you complete decoupling of the concrete. (you don't have to do 4" foam, we usually did 1.5- 2" but you could do just 1 inch. If you live in a cold climate more is better.)

Second would be what you are suggesting. Put the sleepers down, then fill between sleepers with the foam board, then lay the ply/osb over it.

The first method is better for energy efficiency and is a little easier to install in my opinion due to not having to attach all the sleepers to the floor first and then make all the foam fit the gaps. The first is more expensive though due to the double layer of sheathing. We calculated labor wise it is a better method when we do it since it goes so much faster. It takes longer to put the sleepers down then it took us to put the whole other system in. These were basketball courts in houses for reference, so large wide open areas. Doing the sleeper method in a house with multiple rooms would take even longer.

You could also do the Dricore subfloor stuff which is nice to use DIY but we always added another layout over the top of these too. The Dricore is a little expensive though but very easy to use.

 

[billconner]

I just posted very similar question last week - no responses. I think if slab is level, foam and double layer of OSB or ply is the way to go. My problem is existing slab is sloped to drain (former garage) and leveling it for continuous foam is not easy or economical. So planning on sleepers and shims (on 6 mil poly) but wondering if I really need to anchor sleepers. A dab of adhesive on shims, foam tight to hold spacing, and screw down ply as I go.

 

[karoc]

I sure like sound of this, thanks for responding guys

 

[duneslider]

I just posted very similar question last week - no responses. I think if slab is level, foam and double layer of OSB or ply is the way to go. My problem is existing slab is sloped to drain (former garage) and leveling it for continuous foam is not easy or economical. So planning on sleepers and shims (on 6 mil poly) but wondering if I really need to anchor sleepers. A dab of adhesive on shims, foam tight to hold spacing, and screw down ply as I go.

The problem you have (also didn't see your other post) is that you are trying to level. In reality, you need to have those sleepers fully supported or the floor will feel spongy. Seems to me that it might be difficult to keep it all in place with just construction adhesive. Is the entire area sloped to the drain? Or just a smaller area around the drain? If not a large area, self-leveler works great. I have leveled a laundry room that had a drain in the middle of it.

If you held them all up and then grouted under all the sleepers to keep them supported that might work. Not sure what you are needing the floor for but how detrimental is the slight slope (assuming it isn't like and inch per foot) to the floor?

Or you could use a power hand plane and plane the sleepers down to create a level floor? That could be a lot of work also...

 

[karoc]

The problem you have (also didn't see your other post) is that you are trying to level. In reality, you need to have those sleepers fully supported or the floor will feel spongy. Seems to me that it might be difficult to keep it all in place with just construction adhesive. Is the entire area sloped to the drain? Or just a smaller area around the drain? If not a large area, self-leveler works great. I have leveled a laundry room that had a drain in the middle of it.

If you held them all up and then grouted under all the sleepers to keep them supported that might work. Not sure what you are needing the floor for but how detrimental is the slight slope (assuming it isn't like and inch per foot) to the floor?

Or you could use a power hand plane and plane the sleepers down to create a level floor? That could be a lot of work also...

No slope for living space, but it’s not perfectly level either. Some interior walls I had make studs little shorter that exterior walls. Maybe 1/2”

 

[billconner]

The problem you have (also didn't see your other post) is that you are trying to level. In reality, you need to have those sleepers fully supported or the floor will feel spongy. Seems to me that it might be difficult to keep it all in place with just construction adhesive. Is the entire area sloped to the drain? Or just a smaller area around the drain? If not a large area, self-leveler works great. I have leveled a laundry room that had a drain in the middle of it.

If you held them all up and then grouted under all the sleepers to keep them supported that might work. Not sure what you are needing the floor for but how detrimental is the slight slope (assuming it isn't like and inch per foot) to the floor?

Or you could use a power hand plane and plane the sleepers down to create a level floor? That could be a lot of work also...

Approx 20'x24' space with 2 drains sort of centered under each car spot. 1/2 to 5/8" low at drain from edges. The ply will keep sleepers in place, adhesive is for shims. Not too worried about deflection with shims 2' on center. Probably have designed 50+ stage floors with same spacing of supports under 2x4 sleepers 24" o.c. and they accomodate trucks and lifts (as well as ballet dancers en pointe) though it is 1 1/8" ply. You don't think a sleeper can span 2'? Figuring sleepers 16" o.c. (or 19.2" to use foam more efficiently) and 23/32 ply.

 

[duneslider]

Approx 20'x24' space with 2 drains sort of centered under each car spot. 1/2 to 5/8" low at drain from edges. The ply will keep sleepers in place, adhesive is for shims. Not too worried about deflection with shims 2' on center. Probably have designed 50+ stage floors with same spacing of supports under 2x4 sleepers 24" o.c. and they accomodate trucks and lifts (as well as ballet dancers en pointe) though it is 1 1/8" ply. You don't think a sleeper can span 2'? Figuring sleepers 16" o.c. (or 19.2" to use foam more efficiently) and 23/32 ply.

Bill in your case I have never done one with one layer of ply. All the times we have done it was for basketball courts in houses and for whatever reason the spec is two layers of ply/osb. There have been different methods of sleepers under the ply but they always were spec'd out with two layers.

 

[duneslider]

No slope for living space, but it’s not perfectly level either. Some interior walls I had make studs little shorter that exterior walls. Maybe 1/2”

Karoc I think you will be fine and I think doing what you are planning greats a better floor to walk on in your later years. Concrete floors are harder on the body. Changing to the ply floor is better on the body and feels warmer. I think you will be happy.

 

[billconner]

Bill in your case I have never done one with one layer of ply. All the times we have done it was for basketball courts in houses and for whatever reason the spec is two layers of ply/osb. There have been different methods of sleepers under the ply but they always were spec'd out with two layers.

1 layer ply and 1 "layer" t&g flooring. Seems pretty standard - just that instead of 2x10s or whatever on edge, this is 2x4s flat.

 

[karoc]

Here is my favorite way to do what you are wanting. Floating subfloor This is a fantastic method and gives you complete decoupling of the concrete. (you don't have to do 4" foam, we usually did 1.5- 2" but you could do just 1 inch. If you live in a cold climate more is better.)

Second would be what you are suggesting. Put the sleepers down, then fill between sleepers with the foam board, then lay the ply/osb over it.

The first method is better for energy efficiency and is a little easier to install in my opinion due to not having to attach all the sleepers to the floor first and then make all the foam fit the gaps. The first is more expensive though due to the double layer of sheathing. We calculated labor wise it is a better method when we do it since it goes so much faster. It takes longer to put the sleepers down then it took us to put the whole other system in. These were basketball courts in houses for reference, so large wide open areas. Doing the sleeper method in a house with multiple rooms would take even longer.

You could also do the Dricore subfloor stuff which is nice to use DIY but we always added another layout over the top of these too. The Dricore is a little expensive though but very easy to use.

Duneslider thanks for link, I haven’t read the article yet but wanted ask question while fresh. I haven’t read it yet, please bear with me. 1) Put down say 1” foam(I’m in Texas not much of winter) then lay down T&G plywood. Then nail planks down plywood. What kind of foam should I look far, or ask for? I know big box store doesn’t carry any foam that is solid.

 

[karoc]

Found my answer duneslider, IX EPS

 

[duneslider]

Yep, in my area it was always the pink eps. Probably just what the supplier we used carried but that's pretty much the only one I see around here.

 

[billconner]

You could use EPS or poly-iso, or go non-foam rigid panels with rock wool panels.

 

[Montauket]

I’m in this process as well and all the thoughts above have been gone over in my head numerous times. I don’t have the ceiling height you do though. Bona 540 on the concrete for vapor barrier under Dricore or T&G plywood would be my first choice with your ceiling heights. how much room do you have at the doors? You will be 1 1/2 higher going this route.

I needed to fill some voids under my slab and had polyurethane foam injected under the entire thing 3-5”. It’s going to be a great moisture barrier and give me some r value as well. We will be doing a 3/4”x5” circle sawn oak on top, glue down with Bona 851. Laticrete supercap is getting pumped as the leveler next week.