Wood Glue Recommendations

[Openboater]

Hi friends. I'm going to attempt to repair a wood mast for a Thistle sailboat (nothing to lose...). It was broken by snowfall off a tree (while in the possession of a former owner) last winter.

It's hollow spruce, with the halyards run inside. I can change that--I'm not wedded to the boat's class rules--just want to sail the thing.

A friend with long experience in construction recommends I use a glue to join the long pieces back together (I was thinking of using epoxy resin, but he insists glue would do the job just as well). I'm familiar with Titebond and Gorilla brands. Anybody have any specific recommendations for glues?

Thanks. Tom

 

[skippy24]

Titebond 3 would be best.

 

[tomd]

Agree with ^^^^^

 

[Openboater]

Thanks gents. I'll pick up some III and glue a couple test spots. t

 

[BADSIX]

i'm no sail boat person but **** gluing something that long can't be that strong wouldn't you be better to put a sleeve of some kind inside then gluing
Jay D.

 

[rburke65]

That was my first thought was to install an insert first to connect the 2 and to reinforce the joint.

 

[Openboater]

You are right, guys. The break isn't clean--there are longish pieces that extend from one half down onto the other. Regardless, I'm noodling some kind of reinforcement to stiffen the stick up a bit. Because the spar is hollow, maybe an insert or a sleeve would work.

If all else fails, it would make a great flagpole. t

 

[Zeke]

It's probably hollow for a reason. I'd go with your original idea and use a correct epoxy for gluing joints. You can add cabosil or micro balloons to thicken the glue since the joint isn't a tight fit up. When finished the joint will be stronger than it was. Do your best to get all the fibers lined up and joined.

 

[nehog]

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...pair/GeneralBoatRepairs/SealantAdhesiveGuide/

And that's what I'd use for an authority!

 

[kbs2244]

This is a specialty case that needs specialty knowledge.
Repairing broken masts has need for centuries.
Find someone in the local boat world for advice.
This is not the correct blog spot.

In the end I would expect long patch pieces and an expanding type glue (like Gorilla.)
But it is more a mechanical thing than a carpentry thing.
Remember the mast takes all the load of driving the boat.

 

[Openboater]

Good matrix, Hog. Thanks.

Re: specialized knowledge, kbs, most sailors aren't any more knowledgeable than you are when it comes to repairs (most wouldn't even try to repair this mast...). I'm going to experiment with titebond 3 and see how it goes. I'll let you all know how it goes... t

 

[Angelfire]

End grain gluing doesn't work very well regardless of the glue. Titebond III as recommended is ok but for this situation, I'd sure be seeking out the boating experts as personally I don't think it'll cut it. Without having researched this issue, I'd be inclined to look into epoxy or a plastic resin (love that stuff....amazing open time and it doesn't move like Titebond/other aliphatic resin based glues). Will definitely need some additional reinforcement in the form of a sleeve or something similar.

 

[southalabama]

Get a west marine and Jamestown distributors catalog.

Often have great articles on application of products. Usually specialty 3m products.

 

[Moose364]

I think I would look at some type on connection jt, Kind of like a pool cue or some type of splice. I'm sure flex come's into this some how

 

[rlitman]

Having made and repaired a few wooden masts (owned a Blue Jay and a Lightning in prior lives), and done some repairs (and re-repairs):
resorcinol glue is the traditional glue for wooden mast construction. But it requires a good joint and a LOT of clamping, and is not going to work for a repair such as this (it requires well jointed surfaces).
Resist the temptation to use Gorilla (or any expanding polyurethane) glue, or epoxy. It is not appropriate, and will give you issues.

In a repair such as this, I would get everything ready to put together, thin out Titebond III a little bit so it brushes on easier, liberally brush it on both sides, and clamp the **** out of it when you get it back together. No less than one clamp per 4" of break being repaired.

After putting the pieces back together, you WILL have to reinforce the mast.
If your mast is roughly rectangular (as all of mine were), you should be able to bolt two pieces of wood to run along each side of the mast extending above and below the break like flitch plates would be used to reinforce a floor beam. Images online I'm seeing show your mast may be octagonal (the only Thistles I personally recall had aluminum spars). That would be reinforced the same way, though you may need to add triangular pieces to make it fit together. Reinforcing along the sides takes on the properties of an I beam and is the strongest fix. It also does not interfere with the sail track, etc (though you may have to move spreaders).

 

[CJM8515]

Id reinforce it somehow, either with more wood, metal, or hell even fiberglass epoxy like bondo kitty hair or fiberglass strips might be worth it.

There is no way glue is going to hold up on its on no matter what you use, just to weak a joint really.When I used to make gun stocks stiffer I used to take a rasp and chisel and make a channel on either side of the forearm area and then I would glue using epoxy some metal or fiberglass rods and epoxy over them. Made it MUCH stronger.

 

[Openboater]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

To answer Zeke's question, the mast is hollow because the halyards--the lengths of wire used to raise the main and fore sails--ran inside the mast to help eliminate what's called windage up high. I'd run the main halyard outside (there are class rules for racing that probably forbid this, or put one at a competitive disadvantage that I don't care about because I don't plan to race the boat) but I'll have to figure out a way to continue to run the foresail halyard inside--probably not a real problem.

The break isn't clean, so a **** joint isn't really a factor, but some kind of reinforcement will likely be required (the mast was split in two it's entire length along the original joint where the hollow halves were jointed, then splintered in two pieces--joining the two pieces will be the challenge). As rlitman said, I'll clamp the **** out of it once it's joined.

Most would just bite the bullet and buy a new mast rather than fool around with this, but a new mast would probably cost as much as I paid for the boat/trailer/sails/rigging in the first place, so I'm going to give it a shot.

Again, thanks for all the good advice. Tom

 

[rlitman]

Keep the halyards inside if you can (the main especially). Putting them outside will cause the mast to bow under tension.

 

[Openboater]

Good point rlit. A goal of mine is to lose the aluminum winches internal to the wood mast base--very clunky. I could probably mount an exit plate a couple feet up from the mast base and try that (that's how I'd handle the foresail halyard)... t

 

[rlitman]

The Thistle is a "class boat" designed for racing (like my Lightning was, or the J22 I used to race, etc). So it'll have much more adjustments than you will ever want for daysailing.

For example, you will probably never use a Cunningham, or other downhauls, or even a traveler (ok maybe that if you're used to using one, though a boom vang is more useful). You also probably won't be reefing sails, or playing with halyard tension while under sail.

Is your setup like this insanity?
http://www.oocities.org/thistle2291/jibhalyard.html

If it were my boat, I'd mount a fixed sheave under the mast (get rid of the one that lets you adjust the tension, route the jib halyard 180 around it back up through the deck, out that hole and into the cam cleats. Having the through hole helps keep the line in the cam cleats (and allows you to pull the line quicker by lifting it out of the cleats but still gives you enough control to handle the line with your hands), and cam cleats are great for halyards (or you could install a rope clutch if you really want to go nuts).

On a jib that size, I really think you can haul it up by hand without any winches, IF you leave it oriented so you're pulling back. If you have it exit the side of the mast above the base, then you'd need a sheave mounted on the console to turn the line back, or else you'd be pulling down (makes it almost impossible to raise the sail). And going to what, a cleat on the mast?