ratdoggy
Well-known member
I get them ripped to the "kind of" size before I leave the store.
Wood Shop and Carpentry Considerations
- Thread starter scootermcrad
- Start date
I get them ripped to the "kind of" size before I leave the store.
beakie
Well-known member
Besides a centralized vacuum chip collection, the biggest improvement I made was to hang one of those "air filtration" boxes (likely a better technical term) that basically just moves air thru it to capture airborne dust. Even with a 2hp vac there is still a stream of dust from everything from a mitersaw to a tablesaw that couldn't be captured if you had a 5hp collector. My woodshop is sadly under utilized, jammed in a basement corner, but hope to get it setup to functionality again one day soon
just to correct the statement in bold.
there is a huge difference from 2hp - 5hp when it comes to dust collection.
although hp doesn't have a lot to do with it.
impeller sizing, properly sized ducting, static pressures, and all the calculations that go into what each machines requires CFM wise has a huge part to play in good dust collection.
while a good air cleaner is nice, if you really want clean air you need to collect the dust at the source/machine... and that takes planning, effort and $$$$.
I think I would use my Laguna LT18 3000 with my Resaw King blade. It can resaw up to 15" which is more than enough for me. (what is the resaw capacity on a 28" saw?)
To each his own. Like I said old iron looks cool - but it's not for me
NO safety features! What happens when you break a blade? Something gets caught or pulled into that drive belt? Does the table even adjust? Can you mount a fence? Is there a slot for a miter gauge? What about dust collection or blade tension/detension, etc etc
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scootermcrad
Well-known member
I'm kind of sorry I brought up my old beast. I think there's a mis-understanding of what the use of my old saw is. That saw will be used very infrequently for anything in the wood shop. Only purpose is rough cutting timbers and the likes. No fence, no bells and whistles, just a tilting table and the ability to saw through a tree. It has no real purpose in everyday carpentry. It does have purpose in the metal shop, but there really shouldn't be any focus on it for the discussion here. It was simply brought up because it takes up considerable floor space and will get used on occasion to rough-in a monster piece of lumber before taking it to the tools from this century.
Moving on! Didn't mean to put a sour feeling on this thread with talk of old versus new.
Thanks for all your input guys! It's very much appreciated and helpful. All of it!
Moving on! Didn't mean to put a sour feeling on this thread with talk of old versus new.
Thanks for all your input guys! It's very much appreciated and helpful. All of it!
Rex_A_Lott
Well-known member
Since you like to read, I'd suggest Tom Clark's book on shop cabinets. He also shows a router table he built, and a home built dust collector.
I've looked at the Ron Paulk you tubes also, and it seems like a good idea for someone who may only occasionally do woodworking in a portion of his shop.
He's big on the track saw too, FWIW.
If you get tired of that old bandsaw, they make a nice platform for a louver press, ala Kiwi Kev..
I've looked at the Ron Paulk you tubes also, and it seems like a good idea for someone who may only occasionally do woodworking in a portion of his shop.
He's big on the track saw too, FWIW.
If you get tired of that old bandsaw, they make a nice platform for a louver press, ala Kiwi Kev..
Jon_E
Well-known member
Whew. A lot of good information in this thread and probably not much I can add to the usefulness. I will say that I've been slowly putting together a woodworking shop myself for the last couple of years, hopefully by this summer I can get it done enough to occupy. It's 24x36 with a full second floor. I've been planning and researching this for years so you will probably need to do a lot more searching. There are other forums out there that are specific to woodworking and woodworking shops and that's where I go for information too. Also, simple searches in Google Images and Pinterest will give you a lot of good ideas.
Tools - all I can say about power tools is "buy once, cry once". Get the best your budget will afford. It's often better to buy a quality used piece of equipment than something new. I have a mix of machinery ranging in age from a 1939 Craftsman/Atlas table saw and a 1939 Delta bandsaw, to a Grizzly 8" jointer that is about ten years old. Everything I have is high quality and heavy duty. One step below true industrial machinery. The old machines are all heavy cast iron and easy to adjust and repair, if it ever becomes necessary. That bandsaw in the photo is a beauty.
Layout is all going to depend on what you want to do. You should spend some time with a shop layout program and then figure out what your workflow might be. You're in a difficult spot because you don't have an established woodshop, so it might necessitate putting everything on wheels until you find the right layout for yourself. In my case, I have one fixed machine, a massive radial arm saw, that will be anchoring one wall of my shop. Everything else is on a mobile base. I don't have any workbenches as my setup has been 100% portable until now, so they will be more-or-less mobile until I can find a permanent spot to my liking.
Woodshop dust collection is a must. A lot of guys are putting in big-expensive cyclone dust collection systems, but you can get away with less. A single-stage collector can be modified with a separator (add-on cyclone) and a cartridge filter to provide much of the capacity and filtering of all but the best cyclones.
I will be using my second floor for lumber storage and a model railroad layout, so I don't waste any space downstairs. However, I don't do any metalworking other than the occasional wrenching on my chain saws and tractor, so I devoted the whole main floor to woodworking (well, OK, my wife gets to use one bay - it's technically a "garage").
Tools - all I can say about power tools is "buy once, cry once". Get the best your budget will afford. It's often better to buy a quality used piece of equipment than something new. I have a mix of machinery ranging in age from a 1939 Craftsman/Atlas table saw and a 1939 Delta bandsaw, to a Grizzly 8" jointer that is about ten years old. Everything I have is high quality and heavy duty. One step below true industrial machinery. The old machines are all heavy cast iron and easy to adjust and repair, if it ever becomes necessary. That bandsaw in the photo is a beauty.
Layout is all going to depend on what you want to do. You should spend some time with a shop layout program and then figure out what your workflow might be. You're in a difficult spot because you don't have an established woodshop, so it might necessitate putting everything on wheels until you find the right layout for yourself. In my case, I have one fixed machine, a massive radial arm saw, that will be anchoring one wall of my shop. Everything else is on a mobile base. I don't have any workbenches as my setup has been 100% portable until now, so they will be more-or-less mobile until I can find a permanent spot to my liking.
Woodshop dust collection is a must. A lot of guys are putting in big-expensive cyclone dust collection systems, but you can get away with less. A single-stage collector can be modified with a separator (add-on cyclone) and a cartridge filter to provide much of the capacity and filtering of all but the best cyclones.
I will be using my second floor for lumber storage and a model railroad layout, so I don't waste any space downstairs. However, I don't do any metalworking other than the occasional wrenching on my chain saws and tractor, so I devoted the whole main floor to woodworking (well, OK, my wife gets to use one bay - it's technically a "garage").
danb35
Well-known member
When it comes to jointers, at a minimum, you want it new enough that the cutterhead is cylindrical (some very old models were not, creating a greater risk of kickback) and the bearings are ball bearings rather than babbit. Make sure it has a decent guard as well. Beyond that, it's down to the condition of the specific tool in question.
NedNorton
Well-known member
There are a lot of great suggestions from the folks already but I'll throw my .02 in. My shop handles woodworking, machining and car/moto repair. 20 x 36 x 9.
Tools... Focus on the big three and fill in the rest.
Table Saw - used 3hp cabinet saw with a BIESEMEYER fence or some copy of it (Powermatic, Delta, Jet) If funds are available, buy a SawStop.
Jointer - 6" will work but I would prioritize an 8". More capacity and like others have said more mass. I have the Powermatic 60. Buy one used. Once set-up, it is a great machine. Helical cutter is nice but for a hobby, I would wait and see if it becomes something you can't live without.
Planer - I would recommend a 15". Yes they take up more space than a portable but it will serve you a long time. This can be purchased used.
With these three you have a good solid machine base that can take stock and get it square and straight. I would lay the shop out so these can be in a fixed position. Add in a chopsaw (or old radial-arm), router table and assembly bench and you are in business.
Dust collection - Cyclones are great. Combine that with an ambient air cleaner and you are well on your way. If funds or space are tight, the single stage will also do the job, just not as well. (OMMV)
Here is the layout...
Material Storage is a big thing. You will need somewhere to store sheet goods, hardwood and cutoffs. Here is how I addressed it. Both the cut-off cart and the sheet goods cabinet are on wheels.
Cut-off cart and hardwood...
The hardwood storage is 2x4 's on end with 3/4 emt. Nothing fancy.
Sheetgoods...
I know that I got a ton of inspiration from other threads and photos. I suggest that you look through the shops here on GJ and PM a few folks. It's a great group here.
More details, don't want to hijack, on the solutions I used are in my build thread. My shop build out is still in process.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Cheers,
Chris
Tools... Focus on the big three and fill in the rest.
Table Saw - used 3hp cabinet saw with a BIESEMEYER fence or some copy of it (Powermatic, Delta, Jet) If funds are available, buy a SawStop.
Jointer - 6" will work but I would prioritize an 8". More capacity and like others have said more mass. I have the Powermatic 60. Buy one used. Once set-up, it is a great machine. Helical cutter is nice but for a hobby, I would wait and see if it becomes something you can't live without.
Planer - I would recommend a 15". Yes they take up more space than a portable but it will serve you a long time. This can be purchased used.
With these three you have a good solid machine base that can take stock and get it square and straight. I would lay the shop out so these can be in a fixed position. Add in a chopsaw (or old radial-arm), router table and assembly bench and you are in business.
Dust collection - Cyclones are great. Combine that with an ambient air cleaner and you are well on your way. If funds or space are tight, the single stage will also do the job, just not as well. (OMMV)
Here is the layout...
Material Storage is a big thing. You will need somewhere to store sheet goods, hardwood and cutoffs. Here is how I addressed it. Both the cut-off cart and the sheet goods cabinet are on wheels.
Cut-off cart and hardwood...
The hardwood storage is 2x4 's on end with 3/4 emt. Nothing fancy.
Sheetgoods...
I know that I got a ton of inspiration from other threads and photos. I suggest that you look through the shops here on GJ and PM a few folks. It's a great group here.
More details, don't want to hijack, on the solutions I used are in my build thread. My shop build out is still in process.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Cheers,
Chris
My Old Tools
Well-known member
Square head jointers can be dangerous and should not be used in most cases. Babbit bearings are just fine as long as they are in decent shape and kept oiled (not greased). They can be repoured fairly easily if they need it. Guards were available even on my 1905 Crescent 32" bandsaw. I have a factory set. My 1950's era Crescent 32" has every modern feature as well as a massive cast iron frame to damp out vibrations. My 16" Northfield jointer was built in 1942. It is still made the exact same way today. I paid $1800 for mine, about a dollar a pound (and less than a new PM 8"). Today it would cost you closer to $18,000.
Gizmosity
Well-known member
Lots of good advise here.....just a couple things that popped in my head.
I started over (still am actually) and had basically nothing but an empty shop 2 years ago. Shop layout depends on the tools you have and use. I would start accumulating the Triad:
Tablesaw:
I'm a big fan of the left tilt cabinet saw and the PM 66 is a heck of a saw. If money was no object the Sawstop is also a remarkably well thought out and built saw, not even when considering the safety aspect........that said I ended up with a swinging deal on a right tilt Grizzly at auction.
Jointer:
Go 8". I don't actually personally know anyone who, when talking about their 6" jointer doesn't add "wish I'd have held out for the 8". Just get an 8". The older PM models allowed you to skew the fence, which is a nice feature (I've never used a newer one so I'm not sure if they skew). That said, I ended up with an old short bed Wallace 8" with a skewed 4 knife head. Great on figured wood, miserable in long stock.....still looking for a local deal on a long bed 8". Still have a 16" coming sometime....no idea where I'm putting it.
Planer:
I'm not a huge fan of portable planers unless you do job site work. I would have preferred a 20" but got a deal on a nearly unused older Grizzly 15". Many years ago all I had was a portable planer in the shop. Might work great for some folks. Might work great for you. Doesn't mesh with how I work.
Those tools will determine your layout. I've moved mine around a couple times and think I finally got it right. Door locations, windows, and my damn water hydrant really determined where everything had to go. Your space will dictate location as well.
I started over (still am actually) and had basically nothing but an empty shop 2 years ago. Shop layout depends on the tools you have and use. I would start accumulating the Triad:
Tablesaw:
I'm a big fan of the left tilt cabinet saw and the PM 66 is a heck of a saw. If money was no object the Sawstop is also a remarkably well thought out and built saw, not even when considering the safety aspect........that said I ended up with a swinging deal on a right tilt Grizzly at auction.
Jointer:
Go 8". I don't actually personally know anyone who, when talking about their 6" jointer doesn't add "wish I'd have held out for the 8". Just get an 8". The older PM models allowed you to skew the fence, which is a nice feature (I've never used a newer one so I'm not sure if they skew). That said, I ended up with an old short bed Wallace 8" with a skewed 4 knife head. Great on figured wood, miserable in long stock.....still looking for a local deal on a long bed 8". Still have a 16" coming sometime....no idea where I'm putting it.
Planer:
I'm not a huge fan of portable planers unless you do job site work. I would have preferred a 20" but got a deal on a nearly unused older Grizzly 15". Many years ago all I had was a portable planer in the shop. Might work great for some folks. Might work great for you. Doesn't mesh with how I work.
Those tools will determine your layout. I've moved mine around a couple times and think I finally got it right. Door locations, windows, and my damn water hydrant really determined where everything had to go. Your space will dictate location as well.
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scootermcrad
Well-known member
Holy cow!!! That was an eyeful of reading right there!! THANK YOU ALL! I don't even know where to start replying, but all of that was extremely helpful. Especially the tool talk. Sounds like my theory of buying used good quality equipment is really the way to go, if it's in good condition. I will certainly keep this in mind as I look. This has always worked for me for my machine and metal shaping tools, but I didn't want to make any assumptions.
And I will definitely be setting up everything on wheels/dolly's so they can be moved around as needed. I prefer rolling assembly tables with good locking casters as well. I find that every few months I like to roll things out and clean house where I can't access every day.
Thanks guys!
And I will definitely be setting up everything on wheels/dolly's so they can be moved around as needed. I prefer rolling assembly tables with good locking casters as well. I find that every few months I like to roll things out and clean house where I can't access every day.
Thanks guys!
ford33
Well-known member
If you put tools and tables on wheels I would suggest a minimum of 3" diameter with a 4" diameter wheel being better. The larger 4 inch diameter will roll over expansion joints, cracks, nails easily. Consider the locking caster and swivel with wheel brake. You don't need four of them on a table as two locking caster/swivel will hold well unless you have an uneven floor. The larger diameter wheel also allows you to sweep under the cabinet with a broom.
Home Depot sells a 4 inch locking swivel caster with wheel brake for $10 each, model number 4120745EB.
Home Depot sells a 4 inch locking swivel caster with wheel brake for $10 each, model number 4120745EB.
OP
scootermcrad
Well-known member
EXACTLY! Big wheels with good wheel locks!
rayra
Well-known member
one thing about wheels, despite my introducing them to the discussion, you don't want them on a work table that you are doing carving on or things like hand-cutting dovetails or handsawing anything. Even with the locks on the wheels, the table will jiggle around and wreck your accuracy.
If you are already intent on a nice heavy cabinet-style table saw, it will basically become the anchor point of your design, it isn't really going anywhere.
In which case I would suggest adding a complementary working table design that fits up against the table saw, acts as an outfeed support or table extension - for both tools. Put your end / side clamps on that table, to hold the things you are hand-cutting. Things will go much nicer with a rock solid table / clamp setup.
I make do with lots of pipe and bar clamps on my big table, when building furniture. But I'm not attempting dovetails (yet).
look at the youtube channels of Jay Bates and The Samurai Carpenter to see fine examples of self-built wood working tables.
If you are already intent on a nice heavy cabinet-style table saw, it will basically become the anchor point of your design, it isn't really going anywhere.
In which case I would suggest adding a complementary working table design that fits up against the table saw, acts as an outfeed support or table extension - for both tools. Put your end / side clamps on that table, to hold the things you are hand-cutting. Things will go much nicer with a rock solid table / clamp setup.
I make do with lots of pipe and bar clamps on my big table, when building furniture. But I'm not attempting dovetails (yet).
look at the youtube channels of Jay Bates and The Samurai Carpenter to see fine examples of self-built wood working tables.
OP
scootermcrad
Well-known member
An additional note and thought about some work I'm planning on focusing on.
One of my major focus points will most likely be doors of all sizes. I'm thinking of installing an I-beam and trolley over my intended work area so I can easily move and/or load the finished products. Some of these will end up being pretty heavy, I have a feeling. Does anyone do this in their shop for heavy pieces?
One of my major focus points will most likely be doors of all sizes. I'm thinking of installing an I-beam and trolley over my intended work area so I can easily move and/or load the finished products. Some of these will end up being pretty heavy, I have a feeling. Does anyone do this in their shop for heavy pieces?
OP
scootermcrad
Well-known member
Great points! On any mobil benches I've made I like to make the wheels fold up out of the way or use quick leveling jacks to get off the wheels completely.
I have a relatively small router cabinet that has wheels and feet that come down when not being rolled around. I forget if they are on some sort of lever or need to be turned down and leveled, LOL, but it works great. I've made many raised panel doors with it (hardwoods such as Chestnut and Cherry) and it remains solid under use. I'll post a pic later.
Ntzabtntr
Member
Hello Scooter
Lots of fine examples and ideas of shops. I combine woodworking and metal working in the same shop space, 26'x36'. It's not ideal, but it's what I have to work with. Like the above quote, I placed the tablesaw in the center and built an outfeed table to support sheet goods and long lumber. This table also supplies lots of storage. I put leveling feet on the bottom of the table so that I can get it lined up nicely with the cabinet saw.
When I'm working with wood, I simply cover all of my metal working equipment with various covers to keep the dust off. I use a portable 2hp dust collector with a 2 micron filter cartrige and a ceiling mounted air filtration unit. It doesn't get all of the dust, but most of it.
This is the shop when all I had was a milling machine for metal working...
Outfeed table is also good for glue-ups...
Here's what it looks like this morning....
My 15" planer is on a mobile base, as well as my 8" jointer, router table and dust collector. The rest of the equipment is stationary.
Brian
Lots of fine examples and ideas of shops. I combine woodworking and metal working in the same shop space, 26'x36'. It's not ideal, but it's what I have to work with. Like the above quote, I placed the tablesaw in the center and built an outfeed table to support sheet goods and long lumber. This table also supplies lots of storage. I put leveling feet on the bottom of the table so that I can get it lined up nicely with the cabinet saw.
When I'm working with wood, I simply cover all of my metal working equipment with various covers to keep the dust off. I use a portable 2hp dust collector with a 2 micron filter cartrige and a ceiling mounted air filtration unit. It doesn't get all of the dust, but most of it.
This is the shop when all I had was a milling machine for metal working...
Outfeed table is also good for glue-ups...
Here's what it looks like this morning....
My 15" planer is on a mobile base, as well as my 8" jointer, router table and dust collector. The rest of the equipment is stationary.
Brian
kylefitz
Well-known member
I don't think this has been mentioned. Don't wait until you have every tool you think you need before you start creating things. That will help shape what tools you need. You can usually find ways around not having certain machines. For example Buying wood that is already plained to thickness until you buy a plainer.
Jo Diesel
Well-known member
I am getting ready to build a RON PAULK Ultimate work bench and hang my DeWalt table saw off the end.
I want to make a cabinet base for the shop and the saw horses so it is still portable. This guy builds high end cabinets at the job site.
After watching his videos I think he has me talked into Festools track saw and dust collector. Their systems are pretty impressive.
I want to make a cabinet base for the shop and the saw horses so it is still portable. This guy builds high end cabinets at the job site.
After watching his videos I think he has me talked into Festools track saw and dust collector. Their systems are pretty impressive.
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scootermcrad
Well-known member
Exactly! Projects are in full effect! This is the project that has ruined me. I built just about everything and did it with the tools that I had.
Not done, but getting closer. First time doing anything like this and I enjoyed every second of it. We have a portion of our home that's under construction and it has doubled as my work space. It's almost done now, so I'm going to lose my work area.
The doors
The arched top window construction
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scootermcrad
Well-known member
^^^ that's awesome. Looks alot like the one I built right down to the color but my "carriage" doors are fake, LOL. Looks great.
That ramp and stair setup is great!! All looks good to me!
Some suggestions:
Go as large as you can with your jointer. A 6" jointer is pretty limiting. A jointer/planer automatically matches your jointer and planer size, and takes up less space to boot. The downside is you have to switch from one function to the other. A 12" Jointer/Planer costs less than a 12" Jointer + 15" planer. (All price comparisons are new to new, used is a whole different kettle of fish.)
Plan an "open space" between the wood and metal areas. It can be used for a lot of things, but it's primary purpose will be as a temporary finishing area where you can spray to your heart's content. You could have welding blankets, mobile walls, flame resistant shoji screens, etc. in the separation area to keep metal "dust" from grinding and such making it to the wood side. There's a video out there from a mechanics training program, grinding debris from a simple angle grinder was making it 20'+ from the working area. The point of the video was "cover your **** so you don't get metal bits where you shouldn't." 3' away from where the grinding was being done was an engine, partially torn down, with the heads removed and cylinders exposed....
natural light. Ventilation. Climate Control. Embrace all three as much as you can.
Go as large as you can with your jointer. A 6" jointer is pretty limiting. A jointer/planer automatically matches your jointer and planer size, and takes up less space to boot. The downside is you have to switch from one function to the other. A 12" Jointer/Planer costs less than a 12" Jointer + 15" planer. (All price comparisons are new to new, used is a whole different kettle of fish.)
Plan an "open space" between the wood and metal areas. It can be used for a lot of things, but it's primary purpose will be as a temporary finishing area where you can spray to your heart's content. You could have welding blankets, mobile walls, flame resistant shoji screens, etc. in the separation area to keep metal "dust" from grinding and such making it to the wood side. There's a video out there from a mechanics training program, grinding debris from a simple angle grinder was making it 20'+ from the working area. The point of the video was "cover your **** so you don't get metal bits where you shouldn't." 3' away from where the grinding was being done was an engine, partially torn down, with the heads removed and cylinders exposed....
natural light. Ventilation. Climate Control. Embrace all three as much as you can.