Wood to Metal Conversion

[James-W]

I have an older Craftsman wood cutting bandsaw (12 inch) and every once in awhile I need to cut sheet metal with it. I bought a metal bandsaw blade and it works OK, I can cut sheet metal with it, but the blade is turning way to fast. I really need to slow it down.

I am sure I could come up with a pulley system for slowing it down, but a gear reduction unit would be so much nicer. Does anyone know if there is a gear reduction unit made for older Craftsman 12 inch wood bandsaws?

If I were cutting sheet metal quite a bit I would just buy a vertical metal cutting bandsaw. But I do this only on rare occasion and I hate to buy an expensive piece of equipment that will just set in the corner and collect dust 99 percent of the time.

 

[R5P7Duster]

Following

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[jimreed2160]

Larger pulley (sheave) solves the problem quickly and inexpensively. It is also easy to reverse if needed. It seems that a gear reduction system would be expensive and unnecessary. But maybe I am missing something. Can you clarify? Thanks.

 

[James-W]

Larger pulley (sheave) solves the problem quickly and inexpensively. It is also easy to reverse if needed. It seems that a gear reduction system would be expensive and unnecessary. But maybe I am missing something. Can you clarify? Thanks.

Well, a larger pulley on the bandsaw would certainly slow down the speed, no question at all about that. But the problem is, I can't go much larger with the pulley size because if I do the pulley will hit the table on the bandsaw. So I am limited on pulley size. I suppose I could come up with a multiple pulley arrangement, but it would be much simpler if I could get a gear reduction (like a worm gear) unit that would mount right to the saw. I was hoping there would be something like that available.

 

[Thumper68]

Check out the offerings from Surplus center, many to choose from.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Gear-Reducers/

Personally I just found a bandsaw with a high low gearbox and a reeves drive so that I can cut both. No need for 2 saws with one sitting most of the time.

 

[crguy]

Larger pulley (sheave) solves the problem quickly and inexpensively. It is also easy to reverse if needed. It seems that a gear reduction system would be expensive and unnecessary. But maybe I am missing something. Can you clarify? Thanks.

You can't put a big enough pulley on a wood cutting bandsaw to get the correct speed for metal cutting. It takes way more reduction in RPM than that.

Wood cutting runs around 3000 FPM where metal cutting needs around 150 FPM.

 

[Ohmthis]

I found a D.C. Motor and drive controller for mine. It was surplus off of eBay. I had to go smaller on the main puller to get the speeds higher for wood. It can go to a crawl if I want it to. The only real issue for me is not knowing exactly what speed the blade is turning. A digital tach takes care of that though. It wasn't cheap though. I have around $250 in the "upgrade". Not sure what your budget is.

 

[MushCreek]

If you're going to do it with pulleys, you'll need a jackshaft so you can get a double reduction. As crguy pointed out, it has to run a LOT slower for metal.

 

[lilredex]

Ask this guy how well it works.

 

[James-W]

I know it needs to run a lot slower, I was hoping there was some sort of gear reduction kit made for this type of situation. I would think a worm gear would be the best way to do it.

I don't really have a specific budget for this, whatever it costs is OK, up to a point. What I mean is, if it cost as much as, or more than, what I paid for the bandsaw, then I don't consider it to be worthwhile. I just need something to cut sheet metal maybe three or four times a year for projects I am working on. I hate to buy another bandsaw just for doing that, but the wood cutting bandsaw cost me about $225 when I bought it. So I would rather not spend over $200 for this conversion and I would need to be able to change it back to a wood cutting saw without having to do a major change operation.

If need be, I would try to sell the bandsaw I have and get one that can do both wood and metal. Maybe that would be a more viable solution anyway. It's just that the bandsaw I have works just fine and I don't use it all that much for wood either, but when I need it I have it and I can do all sorts of things with it that would be impossible to do with a small jigsaw.

 

[turbowoodworker]

These questions of wood to metal conversions come up so often.

I am going to give you my opinion, and it is only my humble opinion based on my own stupid mistakes or experiences.

As mentioned, the RPM needs are so different that size of pulley is prohibitive or cost of gear box is high. In truth, dedicated wood shops have wood-only equipment. Dedicated metal shops have metal-only stuff. Most of us here on GJ are hobbyists trying to do it all with what we can afford. So we try to improvise because we can (and our budget dictates that we should).

In actuality, we will search and screw around, and spend more money converting something that works OK but not well for the purpose it was not originally designed for. Then low and behold the next day we need that tool to cut wood again and the change back takes all day.

I liken this to the enduro bikes of the 70s. Good for dirt, good for street but not great for either (wrong tires, turn signal, no travel, etc etc etc.).

So when we try to convert a chop saw to a miter saw, or a bandsaw to a metal saw, or a circular saw to a table saw, we sacrifice all sorts of things and gain little (maybe a little satisfaction of ingenuity?).

For the hobbyist, and in the budget for James (OP), is the HF saw that is horizontal or vertical and cheap. Yes it is Chinese and HF. There are probably better examples out there too. But for many of us, this might just be the right answer for occasional use. Then all you sacrifice is money and floor space.

https://www.harborfreight.com/catal...e,f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=bandsaw


Long winded and maybe no agreement here but just my opinion.

Rick

 

[James-W]

These questions of wood to metal conversions come up so often.

I am going to give you my opinion, and it is only my humble opinion based on my own stupid mistakes or experiences.

As mentioned, the RPM needs are so different that size of pulley is prohibitive or cost of gear box is high. In truth, dedicated wood shops have wood-only equipment. Dedicated metal shops have metal-only stuff. Most of us here on GJ are hobbyists trying to do it all with what we can afford. So we try to improvise because we can (and our budget dictates that we should).

In actuality, we will search and screw around, and spend more money converting something that works OK but not well for the purpose it was not originally designed for. Then low and behold the next day we need that tool to cut wood again and the change back takes all day.

I liken this to the enduro bikes of the 70s. Good for dirt, good for street but not great for either (wrong tires, turn signal, no travel, etc etc etc.).

So when we try to convert a chop saw to a miter saw, or a bandsaw to a metal saw, or a circular saw to a table saw, we sacrifice all sorts of things and gain little (maybe a little satisfaction of ingenuity?).

For the hobbyist, and in the budget for James (OP), is the HF saw that is horizontal or vertical and cheap. Yes it is Chinese and HF. There are probably better examples out there too. But for many of us, this might just be the right answer for occasional use. Then all you sacrifice is money and floor space.

https://www.harborfreight.com/catal...e,f,EAFeatured+Weight,f,Sale+Rank,f&q=bandsaw


Long winded and maybe no agreement here but just my opinion.

Rick

I agree with you completely. I would rather have two separate bandsaws, one for wood and one for metal. The only thing is, the metal cutting bandsaw won't get used very often and it will sit in the corner collecting dust most of the time. I don't need it often, but when I need it, I need it right away.

I looked at the Harbor Freight bandsaws, they don't seem to have a vertical one with a table that is made to cut metal. I will have to check Northern Tool and see what they have.

 

[Zeke]

I have had so much success using a PortaBand on a home made stand that my conversion BS project just sits.

A cheap way to install a jack shaft is to install a second motor with 2 pulleys on the shaft. A motor drives the non operating motor which in turn drives the wheel. Lots of mass and usually built in mounts.

 

[James-W]

I have had so much success using a PortaBand on a home made stand that my conversion BS project just sits.

I just happen to have a portable metal cutting bandsaw that I have used maybe 5 times since I bought it about 12 years ago. I never considered making a stand for it. That is a wonderful idea, thanks for the suggestion!

 

[lis2323]

Here's my conversion. I used a gear reducer (30:1) I had on hand and pulleyed and sprocket sized accordingly.

This one I kept at wood cutting speed and use for aluminum.

Terry


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[turbowoodworker]

Hey James, I downloaded the manual for the HF model. The website says it is convertible from horizontal to vertical but there are no pictures of it in the up position. The manual does show that there is a table for vertical cutting and it is described in the assembly section. That implies that a table is included.

As casual hobbyists, we must always ask ourselves if we are predominantly woodworkers or predominantly metal fab guys. That equates to floor space.

Good luck.

 

[stonesfan68]

How much is a VFD, or would that not work for this application?

 

[James-W]

Hey James, I downloaded the manual for the HF model. The website says it is convertible from horizontal to vertical but there are no pictures of it in the up position. The manual does show that there is a table for vertical cutting and it is described in the assembly section. That implies that a table is included.

As casual hobbyists, we must always ask ourselves if we are predominantly woodworkers or predominantly metal fab guys. That equates to floor space.

Good luck.

Which bandsaw are you talking about? Could you post a link for me?

 

[turbowoodworker]

The link is in my first post, #11. There are two different model numbers both priced at $259, not sure of difference. I checked manual of second one.
I don't own a metal bandsaw but as you might guess, if I do get one it will be something like this or a Northern tool, or...

 

[James-W]

The link is in my first post, #11. There are two different model numbers both priced at $259, not sure of difference. I checked manual of second one.
I don't own a metal bandsaw but as you might guess, if I do get one it will be something like this or a Northern tool, or...

I have a bandsaw similar to the second one, not that brand, but very much similar. What I don't have is a table for it. I am now wondering if I can get a table for the one I have. I will have to look into that.

 

[Ohmthis]

The little saw that is linked to is a standard 4x6 horizontal bandsaw. A LOT of different brands sell the same one. They have a whole group on yahoo dedicated to them. I have never owned one (I found a deal in an older rigid saw), but have studied them. They do have a table for the vertical position, but are limited on what size material can be cut. They need adjustment and little upgrades, but for the most part are well liked.

 

[James-W]

Maybe I should just sell the one I have and buy this one.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200406676_200406676

 

[turbowoodworker]

That's a pretty cool saw but now you are almost $1100 over budget!

I have that jet in wood working only. Jet makes nice stuff.
As a metal tool though, it is only vertical so it would be very difficult to trim to fit long sticks.

 

[pepi]

You can't put a big enough pulley on a wood cutting bandsaw to get the correct speed for metal cutting. It takes way more reduction in RPM than that.

Wood cutting runs around 3000 FPM where metal cutting needs around 150 FPM.

Really this worked, must be magic..

greg

 

[James-W]

That's a pretty cool saw but now you are almost $1100 over budget!

I have that jet in wood working only. Jet makes nice stuff.
As a metal tool though, it is only vertical so it would be very difficult to trim to fit long sticks.

I agree with you 100 percent. but I already have a "horizontal" metal cutting bandsaw that I use to cut off pieces of metal. But the thing is, I just need this one to cut sheet metal. I don't need it very often, but when I do need it I need it right now because I am doing a job for a local manufacturing company and most times they want it yesterday.

 

[James-W]

Really this worked, must be magic..

greg

I am quite certain I can do something like that with the bandsaw I already have. But then I would have to change it back and forth depending on whether I am cutting wood or metal. While I could certainly do that, it just seems like a pain in the neck to have to do it each time I want to cut something different. But I must admit, it does look like some very good fabrication workmanship.

 

[James-W]

That's a pretty cool saw but now you are almost $1100 over budget!

I have that jet in wood working only. Jet makes nice stuff.
As a metal tool though, it is only vertical so it would be very difficult to trim to fit long sticks.

I concur, Jet makes VERY good equipment.

But if I were to buy just a wood cutting bandsaw, I would prefer to buy something like this because it has the re-saw capability already incorporated in the design. Quite often people stop by and want me to plane a board down for them. They will bring me a new 1Xsomething and want it planed down to a quarter inch thick. If I could re-saw it first, I could get 2 quarter inch boards rather than just one.

I have often thought about getting one of these so I can re-saw material, but so far I have not done it, mostly because I have been trying to quit doing jobs like this. But people keep stopping by and wanting me to do stuff like this and I keep doing it, although not as much as what I used to. Anyway, here is a link to the saw.

http://www.rockler.com/laguna-1412-14-bandsaw

 

[metlmunchr]

The only type of convenient gearbox for a wood and metal cutting saw is the one like Delta used on their 20" saws. The saw was available as wood only or optionally as wood and metal. The option adds a gearbox that's switchable via a lever from reduced speed to straight thru operation. A standard gear reducer won't get you there without some significant inconvenience.

The guy in the youtube video has a pretty good setup for switching by sliding the motor over and changing the belt. But, if you had double 4 to 1 reduction, that would give you 16 to 1. With a 1725 motor and wheels around 15" dia typical of saws with a 14" throat, you'd still have a blade speed of about 425 fpm which is way too fast for steel cutting if any blade life is expected.

The OP mentions needing this only for cutting sheet metal. Not sure what he's calling "sheet metal", but for 16ga or thinner, either a Makita shear or a Bosch nibbler will do a far better job than a band saw for about $275.

 

[James-W]

The OP mentions needing this only for cutting sheet metal. Not sure what he's calling "sheet metal", but for 16ga or thinner, either a Makita shear or a Bosch nibbler will do a far better job than a band saw for about $275.

I usually am cutting 14 gauge and occasionally 12 gauge, but sometimes I cut thicker stuff. I thought about using a shear, and while that would work great for straight cuts, I sometimes need to cut a curved piece.

Sometimes they want a guard made for something and the guard may need to be curved, like if it is for a belt guard. Other times they just want some pieces of sheet metal cut straight and to a certain size. I just made a couple pieces a few days ago that were 4 inches by 6 inches. A shear would have worked wonderful for those. But a couple months back I made belt guard and a shear would have been worthless for that.

 

[lis2323]

I usually am cutting 14 gauge and occasionally 12 gauge, but sometimes I cut thicker stuff. I thought about using a shear, and while that would work great for straight cuts, I sometimes need to cut a curved piece.



Sometimes they want a guard made for something and the guard may need to be curved, like if it is for a belt guard. Other times they just want some pieces of sheet metal cut straight and to a certain size. I just made a couple pieces a few days ago that were 4 inches by 6 inches. A shear would have worked wonderful for those. But a couple months back I made belt guard and a shear would have been worthless for that.

Once you need to cut heavier than 16ga owning a shear will probably get cost prohibitive.

My shear handles 16 gauge mild steel max. Curves for belt guards etc I use a plasma cutter.

Terry


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[James-W]

Once you need to cut heavier than 16ga owning a shear will probably get cost prohibitive.

My shear handles 16 gauge mild steel max. Curves for belt guards etc I use a plasma cutter.

Terry

I don't have a plasma cutter, thought about buying one but then again, I would seldom use it. I do have an oxy-acetylene welder that I use mostly for heating stuff that is on really tight and doesn't want to come off. I do have a cutting torch for it and that works quite well for cutting metal, thin or thick. I actually bought the cutting torch from a member of this forum who just happens to live about 30 miles from me. My old cutting torch needed a small part that is no longer available.

 

[lis2323]

I guess I neglected to ask if a plasma cutter would be of value to you for other things. The cutting torch would work but probably create a lot of distortion on your 14-12 ga. A small tip and lots of skill would be required for cuts not requiring a lot of clean up.


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[James-W]

I doubt I would use a plasma cutter very often, maybe a couple times a year at the most. I seldom use the cutting torch but there are those times when it sure does come in handy.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Theoretical question on this topic.
What about the problem of having sawdust in your saw then cutting metal. Would you worry about sparks? And on the contrary, would you be concerned about oils contaminating your wood and screwing with the finishes?
Just thinking out loud.

 

[trainer]

I wonder if it would be practical to produce a metal cutting blade design that would operate satisfactorily at wood cutting speeds.

 

[James-W]

Theoretical question on this topic.
What about the problem of having sawdust in your saw then cutting metal. Would you worry about sparks? And on the contrary, would you be concerned about oils contaminating your wood and screwing with the finishes?
Just thinking out loud.

Those are good questions, I will attempt to answer them as best I can.

I only cut clean sheet metal so I am not overly concerned about oil getting on any wood I am cutting, but even so I suppose it is a possibility. The sparks angle I had not even thought about, but I really shouldn't get any sparks from a band saw blade if it is going slowly.