I'm setting up an area in my workshop to do some woodworking. Dust collection/extraction and air quality is taken a lot more seriously these days and I've seen units ranging from diy shop vac setups to multi thousand dollar hepa filtered extractors. One thing I'm not seeing used is a simple dust vacuum that expels dust laden air to the outside. I realize not everyone can exhaust the dusty air out to the next door neighbor, if the houses are right on top of each other, but once you get the majority of the chips out with a cyclone type dust separator, there's not that much exiting the vacuum. I live in the woods so even if there was a pile of sawdust at the outlet, it would just mix into the leaves and forest debris. I'm just not seeing the point of the super expensive filters being used, just to recycle the air around the shop. Even if I collect it in a bag outdoors, I wouldn't need the fine particulate filtration. Am I missing something important?
Wood workshop dust extractor question
- Thread starter mepstein
- Start date
LeonardY
Well-known member
You need to replace the air you are blowing out. In most cases, it's not a big deal. If you work with door or window open, it's fine.
If your space is conditioned, you're blowing you heated or cool air outside.
If your space is conditioned, you're blowing you heated or cool air outside.
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Oregon rock crusher
Well-known member
I did put my DC out of the shop, below it in my case, placing the fans on a large bin. Extracting conditioned air wasn't an issue for me as I'm in a fairly temporate climate area. I put two DC's on my hopper so I can pick how much suction I need. The bin has an auger on the bottom to expell chips. I had planned to filter the air out of the fans but it hasn't been an issue for me expelling them direct. I do have back flow preventers on both exhaust ports.
I hated the idea of pulling the DC off a barrel in the shop to empty the dust, especially as I get older. I have two holes in the floor to connect extraction hoses to and just leave them capped when not in use. Hooking up a hose to what I'm using is a minor inconvienence as my wood shop space gets used for a lot of other things so rolling shop equipment out of the way when I'm not using them works for me... Ed.
I hated the idea of pulling the DC off a barrel in the shop to empty the dust, especially as I get older. I have two holes in the floor to connect extraction hoses to and just leave them capped when not in use. Hooking up a hose to what I'm using is a minor inconvienence as my wood shop space gets used for a lot of other things so rolling shop equipment out of the way when I'm not using them works for me... Ed.
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GreyOwl
Well-known member
Do you auger into a moveable bin or something else? It doesn’t show up in your pics.
Oregon rock crusher
Well-known member
I can auger into a wheel barrow or the back of a PU GreyOwl. So far just a wheelbarrow has worked fine. The bin holds a lot and I only run the auger when the DC's are off. The end of the auger is capped when not discharging or I would loose suction in the shop. Ed.
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I have a cheap Harbor Freight dust collector with just the bags, no pleated filter. IMO, it does a darned good job . There is no noticeable dust in the air and after doing a big project I have very little dust on shelves. I did trim work on our house and my miter saw was set up in the living room for months and the shelves in the living room had a faint layer of dust after trimming out the whole house, base, windows and doors.
I also have a home made air filter, just furnace blower in a box and I use MERV 8 or 10 filters on it. Again, IMO it does well. I use it when I am welding or painting to help clear the air.
If you heat or air condition you do not want to blow the air from the collector outside, your heating system will never keep up.
As far as I am concerned guys concerned about getting every tiny bit of dust out of the air are over reacting. You can not catch every bit of dust from a machine, It is impossible! Your machines are spewing a certain amount of dust into the air all the time that the dust collection misses. It doesn't matter if you have a bag or HEPA filters, that dust will get into the air. You can try capture as much as you can, but some will still get out.
Now an air filter can catch most of it and perhaps a HEPA filter in it would clean the air faster, but as long as you are working there will be dust in the air.
IMO, the only way to make sure you do not breath dust is to wear a proper face mask.
I also have a home made air filter, just furnace blower in a box and I use MERV 8 or 10 filters on it. Again, IMO it does well. I use it when I am welding or painting to help clear the air.
If you heat or air condition you do not want to blow the air from the collector outside, your heating system will never keep up.
As far as I am concerned guys concerned about getting every tiny bit of dust out of the air are over reacting. You can not catch every bit of dust from a machine, It is impossible! Your machines are spewing a certain amount of dust into the air all the time that the dust collection misses. It doesn't matter if you have a bag or HEPA filters, that dust will get into the air. You can try capture as much as you can, but some will still get out.
Now an air filter can catch most of it and perhaps a HEPA filter in it would clean the air faster, but as long as you are working there will be dust in the air.
IMO, the only way to make sure you do not breath dust is to wear a proper face mask.
Good points. I usually wear a 3m respirator. I think I will try mounting a dust collector motor outside. That way there should be less dust stirred up by the exhaust and make the shop a lot quieter. I'm only running my tools for short busts so the loss of conditioned air shouldn't be a big deal. At the shop where I used to work, we mounted the air compressor outside, under a shed roof. I don't know how people can listen to that noise day after day.
Zeke
Well-known member
Once again, a location would help with appropriate answers. If the system captures the big stuff and blows the exhaust along with fine stuff outside, I guess just make sure it goes downwind from house and shop.
I agree that dust collection systems are not the same as an air purifier. I think a cyclone inside or outside with an outside exhaust should be clean enough. Just no bags inside as they emit very fine particulate which is the most harmful. For sure there will be negative pressure inside when running so make up air can help with that. Otherwise there might be a slight drop in efficiency.
I agree that dust collection systems are not the same as an air purifier. I think a cyclone inside or outside with an outside exhaust should be clean enough. Just no bags inside as they emit very fine particulate which is the most harmful. For sure there will be negative pressure inside when running so make up air can help with that. Otherwise there might be a slight drop in efficiency.
I'm in SE PA. We each have 3.5 acre lots in the woods. My neighbors are friends and don't really care what each other does, unless beer is involved. Seriously, we all have access to each others house and shops. Chainsaws, motorcycles, etc is all welcome music in our area. A little dust won't even raise an eyebrow. A lot of dust would just get a visit to see what I was making and offer to lend a hand.
Improved700
Well-known member
My kind of neighbor hood.
Exactly like the one that I live in.
Wanted to clean gutters on the house and shop today.
Walked up to neighbors shop, grab his skid steer and bucket.
Put the kid in the bucket with some gloves. 10 minuets later, gutters are cleaned and all
the leaves and junk are in the bucket.
Couple hours later, neighbor comes down with a 6 pack and says, let's try this new beer.
Gratefull for sure
Exactly like the one that I live in.
Wanted to clean gutters on the house and shop today.
Walked up to neighbors shop, grab his skid steer and bucket.
Put the kid in the bucket with some gloves. 10 minuets later, gutters are cleaned and all
the leaves and junk are in the bucket.
Couple hours later, neighbor comes down with a 6 pack and says, let's try this new beer.
Gratefull for sure
LeonardY
Well-known member
Absolutely. I also have an overhead air filter. When I I see how much wood dust is in the filter, I realize that even with the best dust collection stuff gets in the air. I just finished a changing table and I was fanatical about dust control. I was amazed at all the dust that had settled on everything even with the cyclone and hepa filters.
I go through training each year for my certification with 3 different types of respirators. At home, I use a 1/2 mask respirator with dust cartridges.
Gents, protect your lungs, hearing and eyesight.
jar944
Well-known member
As long as you don't care about heating and cooling or the pile of saw dust have at it. If any of those matter get some level of dust collector with a filter.
Renegade1LI
Well-known member
I built one from a HF unit, piped out the whole shop & it works really well, still wear a mask though. I keep the shop heated & cooled so recirculating the air was important & has worked great, between the cyclone & air filter there is almost no dust. The cost wasn't bad & took a day to build & a day to run the pipe to the machines, leave a spare at a bench for hand tools.
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I figure I'll give it a try and reassess after a while. I care about heating and cooling but this is an occasional thing for me. I'm not running a machine for hours, just minutes. Even though I may loose some conditioned air, I'll be bringing in fresh air so that's not the worst thing in the world. I often open the garage door in the shop on nice days. I purchased an ivac switch so the extractor will only run when needed. I already throw my sawdust in the woods so the extractor should help get rid of the micro particles that float in the air and enter the lungs. I'm more concerned with the super fine particles than the chips and shavings.
It will also save me a couple sq/ft of shop space.
It will also save me a couple sq/ft of shop space.
This is exactly how my former set up, (and the soon to be completed new and improved setup) was (will be) configured. I just routed the discharge straight out the rear wall of the barn via a weather proof hood. Not that it matters, but I also used it a few times to pull car exhaust out of the barn.
My dust collector system is the type that sits on a simple 55 gallon drum with a lid mounted 1hp motor and 10" impeller. There was supposed to be a filter bag on the 5" discharge, but I opted to not use the bag and just ran a sheet metal duct to the outside wall. When used, there was no significant amount of dust or chips being blown outside.
That setup was retired only due to the original drum rusting through. I've not done much woodworking for a few (5) years, so having dust collection hasn't been much of a priority. I do however, cut a lot of aluminum on both the table saw and chop saw and the chips go far and wide. Being able to capture the majority of these will be a big benefit.
Dust collector V2 will use the same drum lid, impeller and housing but will have a 2hp motor (same 3450 RPM). V2 will use two 55 gallon drums, and the drums will be stacked. The upper drum with the impeller will be suspended above on a rigid frame. I'll make a flange where the two drums join, and use DeStaco clamps to pull the lower drum up to the upper one. The lower drum will be on casters and be easy to disconnect and roll out for emptying.
The idea is by having a 2-drum high column, and an longer inlet baffle attached to the underside of the upper lid, I should be able to **** up aluminum saw chips and have them fall into the drum and not be pulled out the discharge (which will still be directed outside).
And for those about to comment about pulling conditioned air out of the space, or needing make up air...it's a drafty old pole barn. For the short time span the collector will be running, I'm not too worried about heat loss.
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Miter saw, track saw, palm sander now. Router and some other stuff soon. I did purchase the Oneida dust deputy for my shop vac but I want to work with good air quality and low noise. I know I can do it with proper PPE but I also want a comfortable atmosphere to work in. I also have a small lift and tools for car restoration in the same shop.
I like having the collector outside, particularly if it’s a cyclone. The are most all noisy, and many are dusty. I like having my compressors outside as well.
The last shop I worked in the collector was outside and the equipment was ducted to it.
We wired the collector such that it powered up when any of the equipment was fired up.
We built control dampers that closed off each piece of equipment when they were off.
The collector had on and off delay relays so it started a few seconde after the equipment started, and continued running for thirty seconds after the equipment shut down.
The last shop I worked in the collector was outside and the equipment was ducted to it.
We wired the collector such that it powered up when any of the equipment was fired up.
We built control dampers that closed off each piece of equipment when they were off.
The collector had on and off delay relays so it started a few seconde after the equipment started, and continued running for thirty seconds after the equipment shut down.
jar944
Well-known member
None of those tools work that well with a dust collector, you are much better off with a dust extractor or shop vac type vacuum. There is just not enough static pressure from a dust collector to work with a 1.5-2.5" hose.
They all can be setup to do a much better job than no dust collection at all. It just takes some thought.
With a miter saw you can put a collection box behind and under the saw. It will get 90% of it.
Track saw is tough, but having dust collection in the immediate area is better than nothing. A person may be able to connect a light weight 4" dust hose to the power head so it follows the saw, but much of it will fly out the back.
Palm sander, a down draft table with a zillion holes frilled ito it, connected to the dust collector works well for small pieces. For larger stuff, havng the hose close by with the collector running will help a lot.
But I agree and I said it earlier, you can not catch all of the dust.
you could look at a filter box like the Jet to assist on general air cleaning. I run a Festool Dust Extractor on my track saw, router, sanders. Works well. I have a Grizzly cyclone That does well with my planer, jointer, table saw and router table. If you are going toward this type of gear you may as well batten down the hatches and plan for a serious dust collector. Doing it in stages will likely cost you more in the long run…I think. We are considering down sizing in which I would loose my 1000 sq ft shop and be stuffed into a two car garage. I will ditch my cyclone and go with a Harvey G700 based upon the lower noise and ability to stuff it under a bench. Of course, then again, you could just blow it out to the neighbors.
jar944
Well-known member
Or just get a shovel.
I am going to build a dust collection box around the miter saw. That looks like the best way to creat a negative pressure area and **** up all the airborn dust.
For the track saw, I’m using a Kreg acs table on wheels. So one option will be to open up the garage door, move the table over and blow a fan out of the shop. That should clear out the airborne dust quickly.
For the track saw, I’m using a Kreg acs table on wheels. So one option will be to open up the garage door, move the table over and blow a fan out of the shop. That should clear out the airborne dust quickly.
Zeke
Well-known member
I was thinking of your own house. No need to blow dust in that direction. It will find its way into the house if you get serious.