#*#%* woodstove, how do I work this!

[Hoss356]

I tried to build a fire today and everytime I close the door it chokes it out. I can build a fire in any normal fireplace why is this one being a pain in my ***? Are these designed to be used with the door cracked?

 

[lilredex]

Start by making a newspaper torch held up inside towards the exit pipe. If everything exhausts with a rush, you know your chimney is drawing. If not, inspect to see if there is a squirrel's nest or other blocking it.

If that is all normal, start a small newpaper fire and leave the door open a crack. If all is OK up to now, check the air supply control in the door.

No air = no fire.

 

[Hoss356]

So, I took the front fan piece off and found that someone had removed and reinstalled a small piece of sheet metal wrong so that it was blocking the make up air. Chimney's working good but still cannot maintain a fire with the door closed, I've managed to get a good fire going with the door cracked open.

I don't have alot of experience with these things but I would think I should've been designed to function with the door closed, am I right?

 

[BillK]

Hoss,
There must be an air intake somewhere that you are missing. Is that a fireplace insert ? Mine had an air intake that was actually "plumbed" through the fireplace bricks to get outside air in. If it is indeed aninsert, you may have to pull it out of the fireplace to find the other air intakes. That thing should work just fine with the door closed, either your chimmney is blocked or you have not found all of the fresh air intakes. What does the Gold Tape cover up ?? Maybe an intake grate of some type ?

 

[NitroPress]

The damper (intake air control) needs to be open some amount to sustain the fire. Typically you have to leave the door cracked to get the fire started, then close the door with the damper open full, then (once you've got a good strong burn with a bed of coals) reduce the damper setting until you have the slowest fire that will maintain itself. That gets maximum burn from the load and thus the maximum heat over time - higher fires will just waste heat up the flue.

Sounds like you don't have the damper open and/or it's blocked by ash, rust, something.

 

[Hoss356]

Thanks guys, I've managed to get the fire up and sustained with the door closed for about 10 minutes now before it started to choke itself out. Here's the air intake and the back of the fan housing, with my hand in front of it I can feel it breathing in slowly.

 

[BillK]

, with my hand in front of it I can feel it breathing in slowly.

Hoss,

You should be able to get that thing roaring like an F18 jet engine with that intake all the way open. It should be trying to pull your hand in, not "breathing in slowly" I dont know the complete history of your setup, but if it is new to you, I would recommend you have a professional come out and look at it before you have a chimney fire or worse Sounds like something is not allowing air to flow properly. Its not worth taking the chance of losing everything !!!!!

 

[lilredex]

That air intake at the front looks to be directed into the envelope around the stove and not supplying the fire. Does air come out of those slots on either side of the door if the fan is running? If so the air supply opening for the fire is somewhere else.

This is my stove. The gold knobs on the doors regulate the air intake to the fire and air is circulated throught the outer envelope by that fan on the right. Your set up will be similar, you need to see how the fire is fed.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

If this is a new- to-you installation, you need to check out that chimney as it more than likely needs cleaning. Not a fun job but not that difficult either. I clean mine every fall. And never burn softwood, especially pine.

Edit-- on second look at your picture, the air intake is through that upper inlet. The fan blows through those lower openings and out the stove sides. Which would mean the air for the fire comes up through the floor and washes that window (to keep it clean). Look for that opening in the floor/front wall and clean it out. That makes sense as that rod on the right allows you to regulate the air to the fire.

 

[jimp]

Can you see into the fire box from that damper? Where does the fan feed air?

I have a simalar looking unit that has an outside air source and the only air that goes into the front is for cooling the fire box and heating the house.

 

[omr]

alot of people block off the outside air while not using the stove, and like mentioned above the vents on the front are some times just for the heat fan not for venting the fire .

 

[trbomax]

I dont think those front vents could be for combustion air because there is no visible way of regulating them. I'm with those that say it is made to use outside air for combustion and the vent for that is either blocked off or plugged with something. We are not seeing your stack set up,a pic of that would be helpfull too.

 

[VWingman]

If your having trouble getting the wood started you might want to look at the dryness of it. If your stove is an EPA stove it will love dry wood and hate wet wood. That goes for any wood, including pine(sitting next to an insert loaded with pine right now
Can you give an info on what the insert is? I see Ranger listed on the surround.
Also, the obligatory, when in doubt check out hearth.com. The pros and experienced burners will certainly be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[Hoss356]

The only thing I can find on it is Ranger, here's a close up of the intake vent and where it comes into the stove. It looks to me, on the inside supply air, there is a plate that has either been repaired or isn't original to the stove.

 

[omr]

you do know that you dont want a raging fire right ? wood stoves burn slow so the wood will last longer ..

 

[hdshinn]

You've got a nice air tight stove there judging from the gasget on the door in your last photo. Somewhere there has to be a combustion air intake that's regulated, either inside or outside air. My Fisher has air ports like what Lilredex showed. Once I get a good fire going I can throttle it down to a point where it will hold a fire for several hours stuffed with good dry wood.

Side note - if you burn an airtight stove, please take the time and trouble to season your wood properly. I prefer not to burn conifers what with all the pitch and resin which contributes to creosote buildup.

 

[lilredex]

That is your air intake, with the butterfly valve closed............you can see it closed in the picture. That rod to the right, opens and closes it. Did you try to rotate that rod? It works similar to a chimney damper.

 

[larry_g]

Thanks guys, I've managed to get the fire up and sustained with the door closed for about 10 minutes now before it started to choke itself out. Here's the air intake and the back of the fan housing, with my hand in front of it I can feel it breathing in slowly.

That damper may just be the air intake or may not. I would attempt to blow in the damper port with a vacuum cleaner and see if it blows out into the firebox. You will discover it it is the makeup air or not and if it is free or blocked. One old stove we had used a thermostat on a makeup air port similar to that and when the thermostat failed we replaced it with a manual handle similar to that.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[theoldwizard1]

You should be able to get that thing roaring like an F18 jet engine with that intake all the way open. It should be trying to pull your hand in, not "breathing in slowly"

Absolutely !

Make sure there is nothing blocking the chimney !

 

[theoldwizard1]

From this picture it looks like the logs are lying on the floor of the stove. They really need to be up on a grate so that the combustion air coming through the front damper can get underneath. As you add wood, push the ash and coals to the back and side so the air still has a straight shot at the grate.

 

[NitroPress]

From this picture it looks like the logs are lying on the floor of the stove. They really need to be up on a grate so that the combustion air coming through the front damper can get underneath.

Woodstoves and inserts don't use grates. You need to cross-stack things to get fires started, but once there's a bed of coals, it all burns right on the firebox floor.

I think all of the problems here are with the damper and air intake - open it up, clean it out, make sure it's not obstructed by ash, rust or whatever. I don't see a single pic with the butterfly open - is it stuck or does the OP not realize that it needs to be wide open to start the fire and progressively closed to control the burn rate?

 

[lilredex]

Woodstoves and inserts don't use grates. You need to cross-stack things to get fires started, but once there's a bed of coals, it all burns right on the firebox floor.

True enough, but if you want the firebox to last it will be fire brick lined on the floor and at least half way up the walls. This can be done after the fact if need be. Also don't build a fire right on those bricks if you want them to last. First time out lay about one inch of sand on the floor, then when you clean it out leave the floor covered with ashes. It looks nice and neat to get in there with a vacuum cleaner and do a good job, but that is not what your bricks want in order to survive, long term.

Something like this, tonite I am burning hard Maple 4 X 4's and usually stand them up. My bricks are about 15 years old and still doing just fine. My stove is in operation from sun up to sun down, every day during the heating season.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Hoss356]

Thanks for all the info, I'm going to have someone come out and look at the chimney. Also, the in the photos of the butterfly valve, it is wide open and it does go into the interior as I verified that with a shop vac. There is also a possibility that the wood isn't fully seasoned yet since it is store bought, once I have the chimney checked out I'll pick up some properly dried wood to use.

 

[brewchief]

A friend of mine had a very similar stove in a cabin, we ran into the same issues you are having, we were never able to get it to burn right. With a good bed of coals we found we could add one log at a time, when that log was almost gone you could add one more, if you added two it would go out.

We ended up removing that stove and replacing it since it could not heat the cabin, his dad has the stove now and loves it since he can run it in his living room and not get cooked out.

 

[burleymike]

Good move getting the chimney checked out. Ideally you want an insulated liner connected directly to the stove. You also want a minimum of a 15' chimney for most stoves some need an even higher chimney to get a proper draft.

Most inserts from the early to late 1980's were just sitting in the fireplace using the fireplace chimney. This type of install was acceptable back in the day but it is dangerous. If you get a chimney fire there is no way to cut the air off completely. Air will always get in around the insert where it meets the fireplace surround. It is also a ***** to properly clean the chimney.

If that is the setup you have it would be a good investment to install a full stainless liner attached directly to the stove. Most EPA certified stoves (1988-present) will hardly work unless they are connected to a strong drafting chimney.

If the top of this stove has burn tubes (stainless tubes about 1" in diameter with a bunch of little holes in them) that would be a good indicator that it is a more modern stove. The tubes will be on the firebox ceiling.